Help me to build a nice PC for Music Recording, Mixing and Live Tracking!

[Leonardo Pimiento Sepulveda]

Hello Guys, first of all thanks in advance for all the help u could give me.

The thing is that I want to invest around 800 to 1000 USD in a computer for music recording, mixing and live tracking, I dont need it for Gaming or Video editing whatsoever... The only thing that I might need a fair video card for is to use a 32" TV as a monitor... but thats outside the budget, the 800-1000USD are just for the tower itself.

I was thinking going maybe for AMD processor to save some money and as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) AMD doesnt have any issues software or hardware related in the music application business...

I have plenty of experience with DAWs but I have never build a PC in my whole life, so this is going to be my first try and I wanna make the best out of it!

By the way, Everything I am about to say are just aumptions.. so pls let me know if I am completely wrong! 😉

I read somewhere that having more cores and Ghz helps while I make use os VSTs and the ASIO meter load. Also that the RAM helps to the way the DAW manage everything related to the Virtual Instruments too... So in my ignorance I would say a nice 8 core processor with 4.7 Ghz should work like a charm (I was looking at AMD FX-9590 processor), maybe I could learn and overclock it to make it even better huh? (does it really helps to OC in this application?)

As far as the other components I was thinking to get the most recommended to take out the best out of this processor, along with a 128gb or 256gg SSD with at least a 1TB HDD.

I already got my nice Focusrite Saffire Pro Audio interface with a LaCie PCI Card with a Texas Chipset, so, I would not need to get any other thing for that matter.

I would really appreciate any help you could give me, please keep in mind that is for a serious music production and mixing, I will be really glad to read your comments and thoughts on this matter!

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Leonardo Pimiento Sepulveda]

CPUBosss is in my opinion not reliable - they seem to base their assessment off the Passmark site. I linked you to a direct comparison of the two processors there. If you look at the benchmark numbers for single core performance, I cannot see how CPU Boss can arrive at the near equivalence for that measurement in their assessment.

You cannot compare clock speed (GHz) across Intel and AMD (or even different Intel architectures, or AMD architectures).
It would be like trying to compare the RPM of two automobiles - one with a gas engine and one with a diesel engine. The much TDP of the AMD machine is directly attributable to the higher clock speed. Good luck overclocking that, using more Watts and trying to cool that. You will need a much better cooler and even then you may have to try and get rid of upwards of 250W or more. TDP rises faster than clock speed rises.

Inherent in the way a processor works, there are times when it is idle, waiting for data to be fetched, decoded or it has a cache miss or some other thing. That's where the Intel Hyperthreading comes in. It can dispatch the work of another core on the same core while the core is in those wait states. SO essentially the 4-core Intel can do as much work (or within 6%) of the AMD.

There really is no competition between Intel and AMD at the high end - Intel has it all sewn up.

Oh... You really got me thinking... hmmm... well, in that case I believe that AMD can still be a good option, but maybe a safe way to go is to do it with an Intel processor, at the end of the day I believe either one or the other will work great for me. Speaking about facts in clocks speed it totally makes sense, and also for the matter of fact of the higher Wattage of the AMD also got me thinking that I dont want to "cook" my CPU if maybe I dont get the right components to cool it...

Currently, I got something on my favor, and that is that since Cubase 7 was released, they software itself started to work better with hyperthreading processes, now I'd like to think that for the current version (Cubase 7.5) they even got better, so that is also safe territory down there... I'm telling you this accordingly to Steinberg (Cubase) website;

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/hyper-threading-and-asio-guard.html

"We usually recommended to turn off Hyper-Threading whenever performance issues occur. If applicable, this recommendation is still valid for sequencer versions older than Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6 (most Windows systems offer this option in the BIOS or UEFI setup, whereas Hyper-Threading cannot be disabled under Mac OS X).

With Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6 we've introduced ASIO Guard. Depending on the project setup, this feature reduces the real-time audio processing load significantly and thus reduces the risk of audio dropouts caused by Hyper-Threading. For details on ASIO Guard, please refer to this article.

Enabling Hyper-Threading while ASIO Guard is active usually has a positive effect on the overall system performance and is the recommended combination"

So finally as Cubase will use every core available on the CPU, in the intel case 4 physical and 4 virtual, it still will lead to great performance.

I think I addressed most of those. I have not done this, but you may want to look around for a reference for cooling and power consumption for an AMD FX 9590 overclocked at 45% as that site states. You won't do it with the components that you selected, I think. I will tell you that this is, however supposition.

Quick search brought this: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-2014-FX-Refresh-FX-9590-FX-8370-and-FX-8370e-Review/Power-and-Overclocking

"The FX-9590 is already essentially overclocked out of the box. Running at 4.7 GHz base with a turbo speed up to 5 GHz, it is sitting at the bleeding edge of what AMD silicon can do without going into meltdown. Hence the reason for the 220 watt TDP. With the cooler blasting as hard as it could, I was able to hit 5.1 GHz on all cores with a 0.04v offset. This is toasty territory."

Yeah! I mean, that's exactly what I just thought... I know the AMD FX 9590 its a good processor but it takes a lot of things to make it work in the long run... specially for that toasty issue... so, as I dont wanna have to mess with things like that in the near future I think I will stay with intel...

If you need higher throughput, then I would recommend looking at the higher core Intel Xeons. There are I believe up to 15-core (at a humongous price!) with a tremendous throughput - at still less than the 220W TDP of the AMD.

If money is less of an object we can take a page from the Apple playbook and configure a dual-processor Intel Xeon workstation. I don't usually play in those exalted leagues, and I'm not going to offer to build one for you for $50 or $100 over component cost, but it can be done relatively easy.

Well, actually I don't wanna have to invest that kind of money into this project cuz that would be like an overkill thing to do just keeping in mind that if after setting up this PC I kind of feel that I need more power for VSTs and VSTis then I would need to go with a UAD DSP Accelerator so that unit could take the load off my CPU and that solution would be even better than building a bigger PC and also would cost less money with less troubles...

But I guess with the specs. we are talking about in the level of 800-1000 USD is perfect for what I want it to... 😉

Maybe in the future I'll try with a Dual Xenon, who knows! maybe for a bigger project somewhere else!

The top-of-the line SSDs are Samsung and Intel. Most of the rest is a little bit lower, and then there are a few at the bottom,

Then Samsung SSD it is! 😉 thats kind of a big deal in what I do and I don't think it's a good idea to downgrade it just for some dollars...

Definitely look for ports and connectors where you need them. If you go for a 220W processor, I'd recommend you consider a closed-loop air cooler if you don't want to sit near a wind storm. While absolute quiet may not be a necessity, it really isn't fun sitting next to a noisy PC for many hours on end.

Well... we'll leave that for the end 😉 I guess it's not going to be as hot as we thought with the Intel Processor..

Yes, that PSU is just fine. Not sure if it will handle the load for overclocking, but if you go the AMD route, I'm out anyway as I've really not built a system with an AMD processor in many, many years. AMD just can't compete at the high end.


If I have time over the next few days, I will see if I can put together a dual-processor system configuration. You may want to consider that.

Great, that PSU seems great for the price so yeah, I guess that's the one to go with

Well, I guess it won't hurt to look how that would be like with a Dual Processor huh? I really really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into this project with me, I know that your help has been really important to get this done!

Actually, you should read this as part of your "education" or information gathering process.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8584/intel-xeon-e5-2687w-...

wow, that's the thing! haha, now we only would be missing the money to make it happen! hahaha

Great great great info, I really appreciated I believe I have learned a lot about it...

Thanks a lot!

now, please take a look at the end of what I am going to post today, I believe I wanna make a big question to define this project.

Thanks a lot K! 😉

 

[Leonardo Pimiento Sepulveda]

For the price of that Xeon (≈$250), you could get an i7 4790K - 4GHZ quad core (4.4GHz Turbo) which would out-perform it ($249 at MicroCenter right now) and IS unlocked (though I don't recommend overclocking for an audio machine). Core for core, Intel will do better than AMD in terms of throughput (provided Hyperthreading is enabled and supported by the MoBo). Will an 8-core AMD outperform a 4-core Intel? In many cases, it will, yes. But will it be as compatible? In Steinberg's case, there are reasons to suggest not — (more on that in a sec).

Yeah, in most cases they will. What is more likely a problem is scaling down to 1, 2 or 3 cores when 4 aren't necessary. This is an important power (and heat)-saving measure which is aided by (among other things) Intel's TSX-NI instructions, which Steinberg platforms (Cubase, Cubasis, Nuendo, etc.) do take specific advantage of in later versions.
Now, the looping stuff (Reason, FruityLoops, Ableton Live, etc.) will not demand as much of your processor, but will access the Windows pagefile quite a bit, so again, HDD speed matters.

Well.. I understand that I cannot buy the Intel i7 4790K online from MicroCenter, but I guess still for 300 USD seems like a nice CPU for my config, I would like to leave that decision for the end of this post.

For HDD speeds I will use the best I believe I can, I will stick with the 256 gb Samsung SSD for those process and for the rest of the things I might need I will use a 2TB Seagate Barracuta at 7200 rpm. That should be cool, right?

That of course depends on track count and plug-ins. The good news is that most plug-ins have stayed fairly lean despite growing CPU power — (the average CPU is 57% more powerful than it was 3 years ago while the average plug-in requires only 15% more processing power).
Let's put it this way: if you're running enough plug-ins to bog down your CPU, it's time to get some SEPARATE DSP (PowerCore/UAD kind of stuff).

You know, I've thought about it for a while now... and I believe that the best thing to do is to build a nice machine (doesn't necessarily means it has to be super expensive) let's say with either the Xeon or the i7 we have as options in the table (recommended by you and Karsten) it would be a cool config. for my PC, and if as the time goes on I feel like I need more power I will try to get something like the Universal Audio UAD-2 Satellite DUO Core FireWire DSP Accelerator ( http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/universal-audio-uad-2-satellite-duo-core-firewire-dsp-accelerator-package )

that way would cost me less money that putting a much bigger processor and would work waaaaay better because it's made exactly for my needs.

Still, that is something to consider in the future, as far as know it relates I would need to start with the CPU tower...

I was where you are now — (although when I started out, the "apprentice" system was still in place at studios like RPM and Criteria, and you started out by sweeping floors and fetching coffee, then moved up to making tape backups and aligning 2" machines) — and I know the importance of asking questions and soaking up as much knowledge as you can.

I'm willing to help anyone who's willing to learn.
I can only say in parting that I wouldn't worry TOO much about the processor; again, outboard DSP will help you more than ANY CPU can (if it ever comes to needing it).
Trust me: HDD throughput is going to be your bottleneck. If you're looping, mixing ITB, or editing, you're gonna want a fairly large pagefile (regardless of how much RAM you have, as many apps cap their RAM usage anyway so they don't over-consume resources) and I would spend $200-$400 of a $800-1K budget on a 2 or 3 840 EVO SDD's for your "C" drive and make sure the MoBo supports RAID (or buy a separate RAID controller, but it's a lot cheaper to get it on the MoBo).
Best Regards to you as well.
If you want to get into more specific stuff, contact me directly (the<dot>audio<dot>technician<at>gmail<dot>com) as I've probably already spent too much time here.

Well, that's great, I have to remember everytime that I am using a lot of resources that some guys didn't have in the past and still created super great music, let's say, led zeppelin that recorded on a 4 track recording machine, I am still amazed for things like that... So I guess I try to appreciate everything that could help me to make my deal in music business, as learning as much as I can from people like you that have experience in these fields, and also to use technology for my convenience but never forgetting that is just a help but never something that will do the whole thing for me

and well, then I am sticking with the SSD, maybe I add another one later and take a close look for the MoBo RAID thing... that's all really nice info.

I really appreciate everything you are helping me, I guess later I might contact u to your email address and bother you a lil bit with this 😉

Thank you!! please let me know if u have more thoughts or advices on this... 😉

 

[Leonardo Pimiento Sepulveda]

Again, thanks a lot guys for all your help.

Now, I have something I want to bring in discussion and hopefully get to know what you guys think...

Intel Xeon 1231 V3 vs Intel i7 4790k vs (another) Intel Xeon of the same price range of the i7 4790k

the Intel Xeon 1231 V3 I could get it for 235 USD, the Intel i7 4790K is for 300 USD, and maybe another Xeon for 300 bucks...

is it worth the extra 70 bucks on it for what I need it?

keep in mind that if maybe it's not much of a difference I can get out of it, then I can save those 70 bucks so in the future (1 or 2 years from now) I can get the UAD DSP accelerator.

please let me know what are your thoughts on this, I guess this is going to be the final step on my decision, with your help I will determine which one to go with and then I will bring you a final config to my tower PC.

Also, keep in mind that I already decided to include 1 or 2 256gb Samsung SSD, 1 HDD seagate 7200rpm, and 16gb of RAM. Also the MoBo is great! is the same one as Karsten told me about!

I hope I can get help for this from u guys...

Best regards and again, you both are really nice dudes for helping me out with this 😉

I wish u a great day!

 

[gqlhonourbv]

Here is a hand-picked configuration at the lower end of your price range.

 

[Digitrax]

...Now, I have something I want to bring in discussion and hopefully get to know what you guys think...

Intel Xeon 1231 V3 vs Intel i7 4790k vs (another) Intel Xeon of the same price range of the i7 4790k

the Intel Xeon 1231 V3 I could get it for 235 USD, the Intel i7 4790K is for 300 USD, and maybe another Xeon for 300 bucks...

is it worth the extra 70 bucks on it for what I need it?

Probably not if it is a $70 difference — I was thinking you might be near a MicroCenter and could get the 4790K for $250 (but check eBay — there's a good amount of overstock on that unit; you may still be able to get it for $240-$260 from some smaller outfit selling it new; I saw a Buy-It-Now on one about a month ago for $255 w/free shipping, so you never know).

But you've got the right idea: better to spend more on dedicated DSP (if you need it) than on the processor as your dollar will go a lot further (in terms of actual plug-in power) that way. Good luck!