HELP with this FAN question on this BUILD!!

[eliobricenov]

Hi, I'm a noob when it comes to pc builds this is my first one btw so plz take that in consideration haha.. Well I know pretty much about all the components on my PC build except from one.. THE FANS!! I wanna buy this two pack fans, my tower comes with 2 preinstalled BUT my motherboard only has TWO four pins headers, one for the cpu and one for the system.. I came out with this idea:

Why don't I use a fan splitter and given that the preinstalled fans have molex pins I can chain them up and use them as one in the fan splitter alongside the other pair I'm gonna buy? Well I found out that the amp drain is important and shouldn't be more than 1 amp for the motherboard.. So, I came out with another idea!!

What If I use the pair I'm gonna buy and plug them into the splitter and then plug the splitter to the motherboard AND chain the ones preinstalled with the molex and plug them directly to the the PSU? I know I wouln't have control on them but hey I gotta stick to the budget!! What do you think?? Is a good idea??

Here's my build!! PC BUILD LINK

PLEASE HELP A BROTHER!!

 

[Lutfij]

How about this,
buy a PWM fan splitter,
buy 4x 120mm PWM fans,
connect all the fans and your CPU fan to the PWM fan splitter and have them all connected to the CPU_Fan header on your motherboard.

The fans should all ramp u and die down when the temps of the CPU fluctuate. If you didn't buy the case yet, might want to look into a case that comes with a preinstalled fan hub like the NZXT H440 2015 edition.

 

[eliobricenov]

How about this,
buy a PWM fan splitter,
buy 4x 120mm PWM fans,
connect all the fans and your CPU fan to the PWM fan splitter and have them all connected to the CPU_Fan header on your motherboard.

The fans should all ramp u and die down when the temps of the CPU fluctuate. If you didn't buy the case yet, might want to look into a case that comes with a preinstalled fan hub like the NZXT H440 2015 edition.

But is it safe to connect all 4 fans into ONE header? And not, the case you recommended is waaaay too expensive for my build, gotta go with with one under 40$.

 

[Paperdoc]

There MAY be solutions, but we need more info to tell you.

Background: there are two basic fan designs, 3-pin and 4-pin. The method to control those two types is different, so how they match the method that your mobo's fan header uses is important.

A fan HUB can allow you to use more fans in a common control group. The Hub draws all power for its fans from the PSU directly, so it does not exceed the limit of a mobo header. However, any Hub has an important restriction: if can ONLY be used with a mobo header that actually does use the newer 4-pin control method called PWM Mode. And MOST (there are a couple exceptions) Hubs can only control the speeds of 4-pin fans.

The dilemma is that most cases that come with pre-installed fans have 3-pin fans in them. So if you're not going to replace them, that imposes some important restrictions. It may be best to make your additional fans of the same type.

It is POSSIBLE to connect four fans in total to a single mobo header, as long as the total current draw by the four is under 1 Amp.

So, tell us these details:
1. What fans are already pre-installed in the case? If you can't tell, tell us the case maker and model number, ad we can dig up that info.
2. Are you sure the pre-installed fans have 4-pin Molex male connectors on them? Do you recognize the differences between 4-pin Molex PSU output connectors and fan connectors?
3. What additional fans were you thinking of buying - maker and model numbers? We may advise alternatives.
5. What mobo do you have - maker and exact model number? With that we can look up its manual and determine what its fan header can do.

With that info we can advise a total solution for adding and controlling all the fans.

 

[eliobricenov]

There MAY be solutions, but we need more info to tell you.

Background: there are two basic fan designs, 3-pin and 4-pin. The method to control those two types is different, so how they match the method that your mobo's fan header uses is important.

A fan HUB can allow you to use more fans in a common control group. The Hub draws all power for its fans from the PSU directly, so it does not exceed the limit of a mobo header. However, any Hub has an important restriction: if can ONLY be used with a mobo header that actually does use the newer 4-pin control method called PWM Mode. And MOST (there are a couple exceptions) Hubs can only control the speeds of 4-pin fans.

The dilemma is that most cases that come with pre-installed fans have 3-pin fans in them. So if you're not going to replace them, that imposes some important restrictions. It may be best to make your additional fans of the same type.

It is POSSIBLE to connect four fans in total to a single mobo header, as long as the total current draw by the four is under 1 Amp.

So, tell us these details:
1. What fans are already pre-installed in the case? If you can't tell, tell us the case maker and model number, ad we can dig up that info.
2. Are you sure the pre-installed fans have 4-pin Molex male connectors on them? Do you recognize the differences between 4-pin Molex PSU output connectors and fan connectors?
3. What additional fans were you thinking of buying - maker and model numbers? We may advise alternatives.
5. What mobo do you have - maker and exact model number? With that we can look up its manual and determine what its fan header can do.

With that info we can advise a total solution for adding and controlling all the fans.

1) The preinstalled fans have 4 pin Molex connector and a 3 pin connector.
2) I got an anwser from their youtube channel, I will put them at the end of the post.
3) I changed the fans I wanted to buy for these that have 4 pins given that the other had only 3 pins, here are the new ones: ''https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07319NTYB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AFRUWVWO3UJ63&psc=1''
4) The mobo is a GIGABYTE GA-B250M-DS3
5) If the preinstalled fans are 3 pin and the new ones are 4 pins, what can I do to control them with the Mobo?

Here's what VIVO answer me:

"To power the fans from the motherboard, plug the 3-pin connector from one fan into the 4-pin CHA_FAN connector on the motherboard, and then daisy-chain the other fan off the 4-pin molex connector from the first fan. To power the fans directly from the power supply, plug the 4-pin molex connectors from the fans into the 4-pin molex connector from the power supply. Just be sure you don't plug the fans into the power supply and motherboard at the same time, as this could damage the motherboard. The included fans can be daisy-chained to work off a single header on the motherboard. They're rated at 0.25A each."

Also the tower model is: VIVO Micro-ATX "SMART" Mid Tower Computer Gaming PC Case Black, 5 Fan, USB 3.0 (CASE-V06)

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for that info. The important facts I get from those are:
1. The case came with two 3-pin fans, Each is equipped with a connector for a mobo header and a set of pass-through Molex connectors. Using those you can plug each fan onto a mobo header OR a PSU molex output, but never both.
2. Those two fans use 0.25 Amps each.
3. The two extra fans contains LED's and use a bit more power - 0.28 to 0.30 amps each. They are 4-pin fans.
4. The mobo has only one SYS_FAN header for case ventilation fans, but it can be configured in BIOS Setup to use either Voltage Control Mode or PWM Mode. You will need to set that correctly. Further, you have an option to select which temperature sensor is used to guide the fans connected here, and it is set by default to the CPU chip's internal sensor. You will need to change that.

So the total electrical load of these four fans is over 1.0 amps and you can not power all of them from a single SYS_FAN header. More importantly, the two fan types require different control Modes ideally, so they cannot share a single header and all be speed controlled.

There is a very good way to solve all this. You need to buy and install a device called the Phanteks PWM Hub, example here:

https://www.amazon.com/Phanteks-PWM-Fan-Controller-PH-PWHUB-01/dp/B00M0R05WE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502244202&sr=8-1&keywords=phanteks+pwm+hub

This unit has two cables coming out of it. One connects to your mobo SYS_FAN header; the other plugs into a SATA power output connector from the PSU. This gets all power for its fans from the PSU and avoids the limited header power. It is not like other 4-pin fan Hubs, so do not get just any Hub. This one uses the PWM signal from the SYS_FAN header but internally converts to its own group of six 3-pin fan ports that all use Voltage Control Mode. That mode is NECESSARY to control 3-pin fans, and can control 4-pin fans as well. It comes with two Splitters; while you don't need them for multiple fans, you may need them to connect your 4-pin fans to the Hub's ports since they may be small. When plugging your four fans into this Hub, make sure that one of them is plugged into the white Port #1. That is the only port that can send the speed signal from its fan back to the mobo SYS_FAN header.

With that unit in place, go into BIOS Setup and change two things. Go to the configuration of the SYS_FAN port. Make sure it is set to use PWM Mode (so the Hub can receive a PWM signal) and select the Motherboard's temperature sensor, not the CPU temp sensor. Remember to SAVE and EXIT out of there to save your settings.

When you do it this way, all four of your case fans will have their speeds controlled by the mobo automatically, according to the temperature sensed on the motherboard.

 

[VIVO-US]

If you have an unused PCI slot, you can install a basic controller for the two fans we included with the case: https://www.amazon.com/Evercool-Twister-Speed-Controller-Slot/dp/B009D3O4DE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502287264&sr=8-3&keywords=pci+fan+controller

I don't think that controller can handle more than 1 amp, but if you're only using it for 2 or 3 fans, it should be totally fine.

I think it's great how Amazon offers to install that fan 2-pack for you for the low price of $89.49!!!

 

[eliobricenov]

Thanks for that info. The important facts I get from those are:
1. The case came with two 3-pin fans, Each is equipped with a connector for a mobo header and a set of pass-through Molex connectors. Using those you can plug each fan onto a mobo header OR a PSU molex output, but never both.
2. Those two fans use 0.25 Amps each.
3. The two extra fans contains LED's and use a bit more power - 0.28 to 0.30 amps each. They are 4-pin fans.
4. The mobo has only one SYS_FAN header for case ventilation fans, but it can be configured in BIOS Setup to use either Voltage Control Mode or PWM Mode. You will need to set that correctly. Further, you have an option to select which temperature sensor is used to guide the fans connected here, and it is set by default to the CPU chip's internal sensor. You will need to change that.

So the total electrical load of these four fans is over 1.0 amps and you can not power all of them from a single SYS_FAN header. More importantly, the two fan types require different control Modes ideally, so they cannot share a single header and all be speed controlled.

There is a very good way to solve all this. You need to buy and install a device called the Phanteks PWM Hub, example here:

https://www.amazon.com/Phanteks-PWM-Fan-Controller-PH-PWHUB-01/dp/B00M0R05WE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502244202&sr=8-1&keywords=phanteks+pwm+hub

This unit has two cables coming out of it. One connects to your mobo SYS_FAN header; the other plugs into a SATA power output connector from the PSU. This gets all power for its fans from the PSU and avoids the limited header power. It is not like other 4-pin fan Hubs, so do not get just any Hub. This one uses the PWM signal from the SYS_FAN header but internally converts to its own group of six 3-pin fan ports that all use Voltage Control Mode. That mode is NECESSARY to control 3-pin fans, and can control 4-pin fans as well. It comes with two Splitters; while you don't need them for multiple fans, you may need them to connect your 4-pin fans to the Hub's ports since they may be small. When plugging your four fans into this Hub, make sure that one of them is plugged into the white Port #1. That is the only port that can send the speed signal from its fan back to the mobo SYS_FAN header.

With that unit in place, go into BIOS Setup and change two things. Go to the configuration of the SYS_FAN port. Make sure it is set to use PWM Mode (so the Hub can receive a PWM signal) and select the Motherboard's temperature sensor, not the CPU temp sensor. Remember to SAVE and EXIT out of there to save your settings.

When you do it this way, all four of your case fans will have their speeds controlled by the mobo automatically, according to the temperature sensed on the motherboard.

Man, I really appreciate all the work but it seems kinda pointless spending more on installing two extra fan than on the case, the problem here is the mobo I know but I have a really low budget.. Do you think it would be enough only with those preinstalled Fans? I mean, my build has a pentium g4600 and a gtx 1050Ti and they don't consume that much energy. I can even unplug one of the preinstalled fans and put it on the back port, I will use the PC only in my room wich has AC and will only use when is on.. So, what do you think?

 

[Paperdoc]

There are two factors that increased the cost. You chose to buy additional fans of the 4-pin type, when you already had 3-pin fans (supplied with the case) to deal with. This factor is what gets you into using the Phanteks PWM Hub. Then you chose fans with LED's - pretty, but they use more power and make the total load for 4 fans too much for a single header. That also gets you into a Fan Hub.

To cut costs but still get increased case ventilation, consider these alternatives that still get you four fans.
1. Buy 3-pin fans. Now, the two fans supplied with the case come with those extra connectors on them. The suggestions in the case manual say you can plug one into a mobo fan header, and then plug the male Molex connector of the second one into the female connector if the first, making a "daisy chain" arrangement that powers two fans from only one fan header connection. So now if you buy two additional 3-pin fans, you can also get this 4-pin fan Splitter that has THREE outputs from one mobo header

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16812423163

It is a lot cheaper that the Hub. You can plug the two new fans into two of its outputs, and the first of the other two fans into the third output, and they are ALL connected to the single mobo SYS_FAN header. Then you MUST go into BIOS Setup and configure that SYS_FAN header to use Voltage Control Mode, not PWM Mode, so it can control all the 3-pin fans. By the way, if you can't get a Splitter with 3 outputs, you can "stack" two 2-output Splitters to make three outputs.

2. To make this work you MUST choose new fans that consume no more than 0.5 amps in total, and preferably a bit less. That would put the total for all four case fans on the SYS_FAN header at 1.0 amps or less. I would recommend the Noctua NF-S12B redux -1200, which you can buy here for a good price.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAADY4AW7941&cm_re=noctua_fan-_-35-608-060-_-Product

Noctua fans are well known for good quality, high air flow, low noise, and long life (6 year guarantee.) They also are known to be more expensive, but this model is an older design that is about $6 less per fan than their top model in the 120 mm size. Each of these fans consumes only 0.1 amp max, so it would meet your needs nicely.

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for Best Solution.

 

[VIVO-US]

Man, I really appreciate all the work but it seems kinda pointless spending more on installing two extra fan than on the case, the problem here is the mobo I know but I have a really low budget.. Do you think it would be enough only with those preinstalled Fans? I mean, my build has a pentium g4600 and a gtx 1050Ti and they don't consume that much energy. I can even unplug one of the preinstalled fans and put it on the back port, I will use the PC only in my room wich has AC and will only use when is on.. So, what do you think?

Those are some very efficient parts, so you could actually get by with the two front fans alone. The positive pressure combined with the vents on the top and back will be enough to keep your system cool.

 

[eliobricenov]

There are two factors that increased the cost. You chose to buy additional fans of the 4-pin type, when you already had 3-pin fans (supplied with the case) to deal with. This factor is what gets you into using the Phanteks PWM Hub. Then you chose fans with LED's - pretty, but they use more power and make the total load for 4 fans too much for a single header. That also gets you into a Fan Hub.

To cut costs but still get increased case ventilation, consider these alternatives that still get you four fans.
1. Buy 3-pin fans. Now, the two fans supplied with the case come with those extra connectors on them. The suggestions in the case manual say you can plug one into a mobo fan header, and then plug the male Molex connector of the second one into the female connector if the first, making a "daisy chain" arrangement that powers two fans from only one fan header connection. So now if you buy two additional 3-pin fans, you can also get this 4-pin fan Splitter that has THREE outputs from one mobo header

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16812423163

It is a lot cheaper that the Hub. You can plug the two new fans into two of its outputs, and the first of the other two fans into the third output, and they are ALL connected to the single mobo SYS_FAN header. Then you MUST go into BIOS Setup and configure that SYS_FAN header to use Voltage Control Mode, not PWM Mode, so it can control all the 3-pin fans. By the way, if you can't get a Splitter with 3 outputs, you can "stack" two 2-output Splitters to make three outputs.

2. To make this work you MUST choose new fans that consume no more than 0.5 amps in total, and preferably a bit less. That would put the total for all four case fans on the SYS_FAN header at 1.0 amps or less. I would recommend the Noctua NF-S12B redux -1200, which you can buy here for a good price.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAADY4AW7941&cm_re=noctua_fan-_-35-608-060-_-Product

Noctua fans are well known for good quality, high air flow, low noise, and long life (6 year guarantee.) They also are known to be more expensive, but this model is an older design that is about $6 less per fan than their top model in the 120 mm size. Each of these fans consumes only 0.1 amp max, so it would meet your needs nicely.

 

[eliobricenov]

There are two factors that increased the cost. You chose to buy additional fans of the 4-pin type, when you already had 3-pin fans (supplied with the case) to deal with. This factor is what gets you into using the Phanteks PWM Hub. Then you chose fans with LED's - pretty, but they use more power and make the total load for 4 fans too much for a single header. That also gets you into a Fan Hub.

To cut costs but still get increased case ventilation, consider these alternatives that still get you four fans.
1. Buy 3-pin fans. Now, the two fans supplied with the case come with those extra connectors on them. The suggestions in the case manual say you can plug one into a mobo fan header, and then plug the male Molex connector of the second one into the female connector if the first, making a "daisy chain" arrangement that powers two fans from only one fan header connection. So now if you buy two additional 3-pin fans, you can also get this 4-pin fan Splitter that has THREE outputs from one mobo header

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16812423163

It is a lot cheaper that the Hub. You can plug the two new fans into two of its outputs, and the first of the other two fans into the third output, and they are ALL connected to the single mobo SYS_FAN header. Then you MUST go into BIOS Setup and configure that SYS_FAN header to use Voltage Control Mode, not PWM Mode, so it can control all the 3-pin fans. By the way, if you can't get a Splitter with 3 outputs, you can "stack" two 2-output Splitters to make three outputs.

2. To make this work you MUST choose new fans that consume no more than 0.5 amps in total, and preferably a bit less. That would put the total for all four case fans on the SYS_FAN header at 1.0 amps or less. I would recommend the Noctua NF-S12B redux -1200, which you can buy here for a good price.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAADY4AW7941&cm_re=noctua_fan-_-35-608-060-_-Product

Noctua fans are well known for good quality, high air flow, low noise, and long life (6 year guarantee.) They also are known to be more expensive, but this model is an older design that is about $6 less per fan than their top model in the 120 mm size. Each of these fans consumes only 0.1 amp max, so it would meet your needs nicely.

Hi again, yesterday I decided to change the motherboard to one similar but with an extra SYS_FAN header, is MSI one here it is:

MOTHERBOARD

Still has 4 RAM slots, supports my CPU without any BIOS update, and has that additional header. I decided to put some new fans that don't have led but are PWM and considered two options:
FANS

1) I buy two fans and put these new fans on each fan header, and chain the case's ones and plug them directly to the PSU, I don't mind at all that those two won't be controlled by the BIOS since the ones that are connected to the motherboard will. I wouldn't need any fan splitter in this case. 9$x2 that would make 18$ only.

2) I buy one fan and connect it to one SYS_FAN header, and chain the case's one just like you said before, chain them with the Molex and connect them on the remaining SYS_FAN header, I would save 9$ in this case.

This mobo is 65$ at the moment and the previous one is 70$ so I would make no difference. What do you think about this?

 

[eliobricenov]

Man, I really appreciate all the work but it seems kinda pointless spending more on installing two extra fan than on the case, the problem here is the mobo I know but I have a really low budget.. Do you think it would be enough only with those preinstalled Fans? I mean, my build has a pentium g4600 and a gtx 1050Ti and they don't consume that much energy. I can even unplug one of the preinstalled fans and put it on the back port, I will use the PC only in my room wich has AC and will only use when is on.. So, what do you think?

Those are some very efficient parts, so you could actually get by with the two front fans alone. The positive pressure combined with the vents on the top and back will be enough to keep your system cool.

Thank you!! Will definitely buy this case I'm in love with it.

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for the info on your new choices.

First thing is this: the new mobo does have two SYS_FAN headers, but they both are limited to using only Voltage Control Mode. That mode is NECESSARY for 3-pin fans, and CAN control 4-pin fans, although that is not ideal and fails to use some of the advantages of that fan design. But sometimes the 4-pin ones cost more, so getting a comparable 3-pin model would be better.

With that in mind, here's a third option, derived from your first. The Arctic F12 PWM fans cost $9 each, but from the same seller you can get the same fan in 3-pin type for $6.74 each.

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-F12-Standard-Noise-Case/dp/B002KTVFTE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502546652&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+F12

If you want four fans, all controlled by your mobo's two SYS_FAN headers, buy two of those plus a simple 3-pin fan Splitter for $1.97

https://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-12-Inch-Power-Splitter-PEC-05/dp/B00A45N5GM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1502546792&sr=8-5&keywords=fan+splitter+cable

Total for 2 fans + Splitter is $15.45

Now, use the Splitter to connect both Arctic fans to one SYS_FAN header (total load is 0.5 amps, no problem). For the two pre-installed fans, use the "daisy chain" arrangement I outlined in item 1 of my Aug 9 post to connect them both to the other SYS_FAN header (same 0.5 amp load on this header). Now all four fans are under automatic mobo control, and total new cost is a bit less than your Option 1.

 

[eliobricenov]

Thanks for the info on your new choices.

First thing is this: the new mobo does have two SYS_FAN headers, but they both are limited to using only Voltage Control Mode. That mode is NECESSARY for 3-pin fans, and CAN control 4-pin fans, although that is not ideal and fails to use some of the advantages of that fan design. But sometimes the 4-pin ones cost more, so getting a comparable 3-pin model would be better.

With that in mind, here's a third option, derived from your first. The Arctic F12 PWM fans cost $9 each, but from the same seller you can get the same fan in 3-pin type for $6.74 each.

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-F12-Standard-Noise-Case/dp/B002KTVFTE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502546652&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+F12

If you want four fans, all controlled by your mobo's two SYS_FAN headers, buy two of those plus a simple 3-pin fan Splitter for $1.97

https://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-12-Inch-Power-Splitter-PEC-05/dp/B00A45N5GM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1502546792&sr=8-5&keywords=fan+splitter+cable

Total for 2 fans + Splitter is $15.45

Now, use the Splitter to connect both Arctic fans to one SYS_FAN header (total load is 0.5 amps, no problem). For the two pre-installed fans, use the "daisy chain" arrangement I outlined in item 1 of my Aug 9 post to connect them both to the other SYS_FAN header (same 0.5 amp load on this header). Now all four fans are under automatic mobo control, and total new cost is a bit less than your Option 1.

That's what I'm gonna do, thank you!!

 

[Paperdoc]

You're welcome, and thanks for Best solution. Enjoy your system!