High-End personal Workstation Guidance

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jfklimek

jfklimek

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Dec 5, 2010
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I'm interested in building a highish-end workstation that will be mainly using Rhinoceros CAD, Vray Rendering, 3ds Max, all adobe programs, and some video editing programs. I'm looking to get an optimal computer that will allow me to do high end rendering without crashing. I've looked at many of the builds but am still searching to answer these questions. Please respond if you can help.

CPU + GPU Qs:
1. Is it more important to load up power to the CPU or GPU? As i understand it, the cpu is used to process the rendering... but i think there there is a move towards the GPU becoming the rendering processor. Does anyone know more about this situation?
2. What exactly does the dual CPU do when rendering?
3. What is the benefit of Intel Xeon processors over AMD Opertons? (like the AMD Opteron 6134 Magny-Cours 2.3GHz 8 x 512KB L2 Cache 12MB)
4. Why shouldn't i be looking at CPUs like the phenom II 1090t? vs. the workstation CPUs?
5. I understand CUDA to be a major reason to go with Quadro over Firepro. Is this so, or is there a benefit to Firepro?

Memory:
1. How does memory affect the rendering applications? What's the logical minimum and maximum memory amount that will actually affect my rendering processes?
2. What kind of memory is the best?
3. What pieces to this type of computer are beneficial when it comes to memory compatability? does the CPU sync with the memory some how?

Raid - what does this do for my system? How will it benefit it?

Does it hurt to play a video game on this type of computer? I read a phrase "over kill". I'm not sure what that means. I'm only interested in playing 'Civilization V' on this build but that is far from the priority and if it would hurt i would nix that from thought.

Any other advice that might help me decide is greatly appreciated. I've put together the system i'm currently thinking of building... it's highly influenced by gkay's high end workstation. I'm trying to spend between $2000-3000 but would like to know the max and min affects of these choices even if i can't afford it... like what is the benefit of going bigger/ better?

MoBo: what are the important things to look at with a mobo besides the fact that all the pieces work with it. Do some parts work better with certain mobos than others?
CPU: 2x Xeon Westmere's
or
2x AMD Magney-Cours/ Lisbons/ Istanbuls (i don't really know what's good with AMD yet)

GPU: Quadro 4000 (for sure!)

Mem: Patriot Signature 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC Registered Server Memory Model
or
Crucial 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC

SSD: yes

HDD: (should i have two, one 10000rpm and one 7200 rpm?) Why?

Monitor: ? (advice please?)


I know this is a lot. I've built pc's in the past but they were for this specific task and these double CPU rigs are a whole new thing to me, but they are what i need. So any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
I hope you are going to have time to master and "justify" all those toolsets, before this "space-ship" becomes obsolete.

Forget FirePro (fer sher!) And, 10K drives just are not a worthy compromise.

If you must purchase this system, before next April, then we can go with what is currently on the shelf.

I am going to recommend a Single Socket 1366 X58 enthusiast mobo.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131642

Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown 3.33GHz 6 x 256KB L2 Cache 12MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80613I7980X
(Should easily clock to 4GHz Plus ... 12 threads!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=19-115-223&ReviewNo=2071718&SortField=3&Pagesize=100&Is

Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018&cm_re=noctua_140mm-_-35-608-018-_-Product

Two of these 12GB (3x4GB) RAM KITS (24GB RAM, IN TOTAL)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231406

PRIMARY GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133324

SECONDARY GPU (COMBINED CUDA COMPUTE) DUAL-LINK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133353

Matched Pair of Hi-Rez/Large-Format Dual-Link LCD monitors ...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/715066-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_VM617A8_ABA_ZR30w_30_Widescreen_LCD.html

One 90GB Vertex2 SSD
Two 120GB Vertex2 SSDs
One 256GB Vertex2 SSD

G-TECH G-RAID 4TB USB 2.0 / IEEE 1394b / eSATA Dual-Drive Storage System GR44000
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822205074&cm_re=g_raid-_-22-205-074-_-Product

A PREMIUM SILENT PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151102&cm_re=seasonic-_-17-151-102-_-Product


COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel/ Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225&cm_re=full_tower_case-_-11-119-225-_-Product

*****************************************************
GRAND TOTAL SHOULD COME IN AT $7,800 USD
(INCLUDES DVDR, Mon+Drive cables, paste, extra fans and shipping)

*****************************************************

You would have to be an abnormally productive, bonified world-class, intellectual asset, to warrant more than this (IMO)

i.e. ... If you don't pull $75K+/year, salary, you won't need more.

 
Thanks Alvin, but unfortunately I don't got it like that. I need this to be somewhere inbetween $2 - $3,000. But I am interested in your choice decisions. Why the dual GPUs? and what's the minor one going to contribute to? Does linking them make them like a v6000? Secondly, what's up with all the SSDs? and why an external hard drive? You don't propose ECC memory, you suggest 4 SSDs? What's the strategy here Alvin? Alvin? Why not Firepro? Why is the 10k not worth it? Money? What's happening next april?

and that case is just not cool man. No offense. Thanks for your suggestions.
 
A few other, important considerations:

Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Pro
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/686593-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BDLKULSPRO_UltraStudio_Pro.html

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/downloads/manuals/eng/UltraStudioProManual.pdf

Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/686585-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BINTSSHU_Intensity_Shuttle.html



A decent pair of industry standard "cans"
Remote Audio Sony MDR-7506 Headset with Talkback Mic (Straight Cable)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286902-REG/Remote_Audio_BCSHSO_Sony_MDR_7506_Headset_with.html


AND/OR ... TWO OF THESE:

KRK RoKit 6 G2 68W 6" Two-Way Active Nearfield Monitor
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/567757-REG/KRK_RP6G2_RoKit_6_G2_68W.html

 
noone has any more relatable advice out there? I could really use it, i'm looking to purchase within a month. thanks.
 
Well, your aspirations (assertations) were exceedingly high, considering what you intend to spend. ... Also ... If you are actually going to PAY FOR all those hefty sw suites, I would have expected you to spend similarly, on hw ... Finally, you were going on about "workstations" and dual sockets ... so ... "get real".

[:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] << YOU vs. ME >> [:bilbat:3]

Project-Studio System Budgets can be a real "SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLE", as all components "scale together" ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlZRtHMXObQ

Luckily, there are several ways to skin this cat.

*** I would STILL ... STRONGLY ... recommend an X58 mobo and an nVidia GPU part. ***

Those monitors are not only LARGE, at 30 inches, but are also "extra-high" rez with butt-loads more color depth than your endeavors are likely to expoit ... Each of the LCD displays (in my original spec) would have required TWO (both) DVI (i..e. Dual-Link) outputs to run (just) one display ... So ... Lets just call that choice "over-kill" and we can save a bundle, right there ...

MotherBoard ... There are some VERY acceptable mobo solutions that cost *MUCH* less dough ... The reason for the enthusiast mobo was for feeding both quadros the maximum PCIe lane allocation ... A moot point with just one Quadro (which can run TWO, normal-rez displays, per single GPU) ... Yay !

Memory ... You can get by *VERY* well, with 12GB DDR3 ... You can get by "pretty dam good", with a measly 6GB, too ... I'd stretch for 12GB, tho ... it will speed everything you do and, those apps can/will make good use of 12GB (so will Win7-64).

Drives: ... I would just get one 120GB and One 256GB SSD, and as many Spinpoint F3s as you can afford (at least two Spinpoint 1TB drives ... plus a spare, if RAID is in your future.

The G-RAID (external 4TB) is only required if you are using the top-end BlackMagic Design "ULTRA-STUDIO" and doing stuff like SDI capture/ingest ... But, using "normal" AVCHD encoding, along with the (much less expensive) "Intensity Shuttle" or "Intensity HD PCIe" option ... Well ... You won't need the "true hardware" G-RAID unless you are straining your other resources, with 4:2:2 Intra-Frame codecs and/or lower density compression of media.

That PSU is great, but corsairs are cheaper and you can lop-off another $40~$60, on the PSU, as well.

Less drives and displays mean fewer cables ... they can add up ... a few cents saved.

Case? ... On the lower end ... A HAF 922 can save you $100 and would be fine, considering the lower cooling requirements, of a winnowed config (as we are discussing).

... Lessee ... hmmm ... CPU !! ... Scale down to a (VERY CAPABLE) i7-950 and, there goes another $700, off the total price.

Are we getting anywhere ??

SANDY BRIDGES should reach higher clocks and lower prices, by mid-spring, of next year ... If you can wait, some, I'd advise you stick around here and become one of us ... for a good 4 months ... It will pay off and you will increase your tech prowess (and get teased, flamed, and badgered and bullied ... FUN! )

Still want to play ?
 
thanks alvin, this last post was very helpful. You explained a lot of the decisions you are making, and that's what i'm interested in. I still don't get the difference between a 2 CPU and 1 CPU workstation. What does the 2 CPU station provide that a high end 1 CPU station won't. Also, the rendering from the GPU or CPU isn't clear to me either. It seems like GPU is up and coming way, but is there a combination of input between the CPU and GPU ever? or is it just one or the other? And what is adding the quadro 2000 doing for me Alvin? Why not just get two CPUs and keep one video card?

Also, what's the power behind the AMD dual CPUs (magney-cour/ lisbon/ etc.) vs. intels (xeon's/ + whatever else they offer in workstation cpus).
 
You ask large questions, Grass-Hoppah ...

Just forget dual CPUs and Forget AMD/ATi ...

BELIEVE that a single Quadro 4000 is PUH-LEN-TY (and then some).

I recommend that you keep whittling my original spec, down, until you can (finally) afford it. Don't get too complicated, or fancy ... K.I.S.S.

As for the rest of all your questions ... You are asking for a graduate level understanding (i.e. literally a 12 credit hour college course), of "coneptual integration" and, balancing a complex build, to meet the requirements of SEVERAL OF THE MOST DEMANDING (finnacky) APPS, ON THE PLANET, is no mean feat (an understatement).

You need to commit to several months of (fairly) intense study, to get all the answers that you seek ... but you WILL do this ... because ... like me ... you are a FREAK !!

Some of the things that YOU must do, besides hanging out, right here, for 6o days, or more.

** Got to the official site, for each major applications suite, and STUDY (download/compile) the * system requirements * recommended configs * for EACH app in that suite (photo-shop does not need a particular FERMI/Quadro solution, while Premier MPE *DOES*, for instance).

** Go to the advanced user forums, for those same products, and hang out and make-fool-of-noob-self ... be polite and grovel with sincerity.

** Avoid Tom's GPU forum (young and happy ATi fan-boy gamers will steer you wrong).

** Go to VideoGuys.com and read ALL their DIY ... Home-Built info.

** Go to Anandtech.com and USE their CPU benchmark comparison calculator tool and also view their SSD and GPU benches.

** Read EVERY (Tom's) article that appears in the side-bar, of this forum, for two or three months. (one full product cycle of 18 months, if u r serious)

Just forget about dual proc systems ... Like TOP end CPUs, the return on investment presents drastically diminished returns, once you get into *TRUE* workstations ...
... If you are pulling $60K+ as a PAID/DEGREED/Post-Grad PROFESSIONAL, then YOUR EMPLOYER may deem the puny boost in productivity (at great cost) as "justifiable", as a percentage of your annual SALARY. ... hmmm?

Don't over-estimate the quality or the quantity of the FINISHED OUTPUT that you will produce, during the service-life of this system! ... SO MANY noobs think that having all those tools and capabilities and speed will (some-how) transform them into a super successful and productive, creative genius ... BZZZZZT !!! ... WRONG !!!
... You still have to MASTER those tools and actually not spend all your time smokin' dope (or fraggin' zombies). If you are making a 3 Million $USD feature "film" ... sure ... hire some CG engineers and **RENT** a render-farm.

Am I getting thru ?? ... That is just the SHORT list. ... Start a new thread, for each of these (important and intelligent) questions (which you have asked) ... You will rack-up forum points (your rank and status) ... you will learn A - LOT ... just be friendly and humble and grovel, with flair.

Be patient ... you are asking a lot of very big questions, all at once, and many of those answers require an entire "field" of recent knowledge. I've been gone for 3 months and it will take a month for me, just to catch up on new GPUs (the land-scape as a whole).

I am willing to put in that time. ... Are YOU ??? ... IF **NOT** THEN, just give me a budget and tell me what gear you already have and what (three) main applications suites that you need to run. ... THEN ... Buy what I tell you to.

Either DO YOUR HOMEWORK (OVER TIME) or just SHUT YOUR MOUTH (and do what I/we, collectively TELL you to).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIVVid-bgUk


= Al =


 
... and if $2K~$3K is your target, for just the system unit (sans any LCD displays), then it is really pointless to be talking about dual socket solutions, as they are WAY out of your league (beyond anything you could stretch for, once appropriately "populated" with procs (plural) and RAM (starting at 12GB and up to 64GB) ... PENTAGON BUDGET !

But I always try to build you up, once I have torn you down ... because ...

It is FREE-KINK AMAYY-ZINK what $2K~$3K will buy you (but you will need that much money, just for the hardware ... Even student versions of "your" chosen apps cost as much, again). ... and "even" a hs student would warrant dual 22" LCDs @ 1920x1200

... Just for grins, though ... (entertainment only, I hope) ... Let's just say we were to take an AM3/890 **MICRO**ATX board and 8GB of "sluggish" DDR3 (cas 9, even) ...
... we put that ~$100 mobo in a regular ATX mid-tower case (most are mATX-drilled) ... An Antec 300 case, or a RoseWill, or CM-Centurion ... and we JUST use ONE 90GB Vertex2 (sys/boot/apps) and (just) one Spinpoint F3 @ 1TB and we slap a FERMI 570 in there and give it a *Slower* Phenom-II x6 core proc and just use the stock retail CPU cooler and salvage a DVDR ... To include a couple of ASUS 22" (standard) monitors ???

I'm just gonna sorta try-tah add this up in my haid ... tick-a-tick-a-tick-a ... kerchunk!

Hell !!! This would WORK !!! I'm gonna build this thing (for my OWN enjoyment), right here, and right now) .. This is a "3rd World" pro-sumer (pro-really) edit/render rig ...

... You have INSPIRED Alvin ... I do not believe this (I'm such a lazy hack).


 
HERE IS THE PASTE, FROM MY CART *****************************************
3rd WORLD GRAPHICS "PRO" BUILD (CS5 CAPABLE)
*****************************************

THE MOTHERBOARD
ASRock 890GM PRO3 AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813157192
$96.99

THE PROCESSOR (STOCK COOLER INCLUDED)
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT55TFBGRBOX
Item #: N82E16819103851
$179.00

THERMAL PASTE
Arctic Silver AA-1.75G Thermal Compound
Item #: N82E16835100014
$4.99

SYSTEM MEMORY / TWO 4GB KITS = 8GB DDR3
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT
Item #: N82E16820231253
$95.98
($47.99 each, of two 4GB kits)

GPU (This will work with CS5/MPE ... AND PLAY GAMES GREAT !!)
PNY VCGGTX570XPB GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Item #: N82E16814133370
$349.99

TWO HDMI CABLES (from FERMI 570 to your DUAL LCD Displays)
Link Depot 10 ft. HDMI TO HDMI A/V Cable Model HDMI-3-HDMI - OEM
Item #: N82E16812189054
$15.99

DUAL LCD DISPLAY MONITORS 1920x1200 2ms
ASUS VW266H Black 25.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor
Item #: N82E16824236047
$559.98
($279.99 each)


BOOT/SYSTEM/APPS SSD DRIVE
OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE90G 2.5" 90GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820227611
$184.99

TWO SPINNERS FOR MEDIA CONTENT/GENERAL/INT-RAID
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822152185
$139.98
($69.99 each)

SATA DVDR DRIVE
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135204
$19.99

YOU NEED TWO EXTRA DRIVE CABLES (Two come with mobo)
OKGEAR 18" SATA 6 Gbps Cable, Right Angle to Right Angle W/ Metal Latch, UV Blue, Backward Compatible 3 Gbps and 1.5 Gbps
Item #: N82E16812123112
$5.38
($2.69 each)

ONE DECENT CASE OPTION (INCLUDES NEEDED FANS, STOCK)
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811129066
$69.99

YOUR PSU (Don't go under 625 Watts ... says newegg pwr calculator)
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ...
Item #: N82E16817371015
$69.99

********************************
Subtotal: $1,783.24

(does not incl Windows7-Pro-64Bit OEM)
********************************



 
... So ... That should "bracket" the full gammut of viable options ...

You can start with my FIRST suggested system, and build down ... OR ...

You can start with my 3rd-World LOW COST build, and work up, from there.

I have roughly the same build (for SONY VEGAS) but I am going with TWO GT240 GPUs (to push 3 monitors) and an Athlon-II x4 Plus an extra 128GB SSD ... Otherwise, my system is exactly the same as the cheaper build, just posted.

 
Alvin, can I jump in here with a question? As I understand it, when using 3DS MAX, there is no longer any advantage to using a "workstation" video card because AutoDesk has dropped Open GL? Is that correct? Thanks!

Tony
 
Important Notes
The following describes important notes related to the graphics hardware Certifications
for the for the Autodesk 3ds Max 2011, Subscription Advantage Pack and Autodesk 3ds
Max Design 2011, Subscription Advantage Pack software product releases.
 Scene Effects are not compatible with the new HW shading features such
as Ambient Occlusion and Tone mapping
 Certification of graphics cards has mainly been done using Direct3D®
mode
 OpenGL® has been Certified but to a lesser degree, and therefore you
may encounter issues that have not been listed in this document
 DirectX® 9.0c has been used, in Windows XP, Windows Vista® and
Windows 7®. DirectX 10.0 has not been tested
 Certification is being performed on both single and dual screen
configurations at resolution of 1920x1200 (60Hz each).
 If you are experiencing additional display issues not listed in this
document, please search our Knowledge Base or contact customer
support (http://www.autodesk.com/3dsmax-support).Single screen at
resolution of 1920x1200 (60Hz)



Operating system: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional x64, Microsoft Windows Vista Business x64 (SP2 or higher), or Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 (SP2 or higher)

For general animation and rendering (typically fewer than 1,000 objects or 100,000 polygons):

Intel 64 or AMD 64 processor with SSE2 technology*
4 GB RAM (8 GB recommended)
4 GB swap space (8 GB recommended)**
3 GB free hard drive space
Direct3D 10, Direct3D 9, or OpenGL-capable graphics card† (256 MB or higher video card memory, 1 GB recommended)
Three-button mouse with mouse driver software
DVD-ROM drive††
Microsoft Internet Explorer 7.0 or higher or Mozilla Firefox 2.0 or higher browser
Internet connection for web downloads and Autodesk Subscription-aware access
For large scenes and complex data sets (typically more than 1,000 objects or 100,000 polygons):

Intel® 64 or AMD64 processor with SSE2 technology*
8 GB RAM
8 GB swap space**
3 GB free hard drive space
Direct3D 10, Direct3D 9, or OpenGL-capable graphics card† (1 GB or higher video card memory)
Three-button mouse with mouse driver software
DVD-ROM drive††
Microsoft Internet Explorer 7.0 or higher or Mozilla Firefox 2.0 or higher browser)
Internet connection for web downloads and Autodesk Subscription-aware access

************************************************************

 Scene Effects are not compatible with the new HW shading features such
as Ambient Occlusion and Tone mapping
 Certification of graphics cards has mainly been done using Direct3D®
mode
 OpenGL® has been Certified but to a lesser degree, and therefore you
may encounter issues that have not been listed in this document
 DirectX® 9.0c has been used, in Windows XP, Windows Vista® and
Windows 7®. DirectX 10.0 has not been tested
 Certification is being performed on both single and dual screen
configurations at resolution of 1920x1200 (60Hz each).
 If you are experiencing additional display issues not listed in this
document, please search our Knowledge Base or contact customer
support (http://www.autodesk.com/3dsmax-support).Single screen at
resolution of 1920x1200 (60Hz)

*****************************************************

3ds Max Composite Functionality on 32- or 64-Bit Operating SystemsThe 3ds Max Composite feature requires one of the following 32-bit or 64-bit operating systems:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional (SP2 or higher)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 (SP2 or higher)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional x64
Media cache hard drive requirements:

10 GB minimum, 200 GB recommended
HDD: IDE, SATA, SATA 2, SAS, SCSI

**********************************************************

Autodesk 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design 2011 have been optimized to take advantage of the SSE2 extended instruction sets supported on Intel Pentium 4 or higher, AMD Athlon™ 64, AMD Opteron™, and AMD Phenom™ processors. Autodesk 3ds Max 2011 will not operate on computers that do not support SSE2. Several utilities are available on the Internet that report CPUID, including supported instructions sets.

** Autodesk recommends settings that allow Windows to manage virtual memory as needed. There should always be at least twice as much free hard disk space as system memory (RAM).

† Some features of 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design 2011 are enabled only when used with graphics hardware that supports Shader Model 3.0 (Pixel Shader and Vertex Shader 3.0). In addition, Quicksilver hardware rendering requires additional GPU resources to work effectively. A minimum of 512 MB of graphics memory should be used. A minimum of 1 GB is recommend for the most complex scenes, shaders, and lighting modes. Check with your manufacturer to determine if your hardware supports these requirements.

Certified Hardware
For the latest list of certified hardware, including graphics cards, to run Autodesk® 3ds Max® 2011 and Autodesk® 3ds Max® Design 2011, refer to the 3ds Max certified hardware chart.

†† Autodesk 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design 2011 are available only on dual-layer DVD media (or electronic download where available). DVD-ROM drive is not required if installing using electronic download. However, to accommodate the installation files, you will need 9 GB of hard disk space and an additional 16 GB of space for temporary files created during the installation
Product Info Already a User? Resources Follow 3ds Max

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3ds Max Design Brochure (pdf - 440Kb)
3ds Max FAQ (pdf - 69Kb)
3ds Max Design FAQ (pdf - 68Kb)
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holy smokes... this is some heavy stuff Alvin. Thanks man, i got some research to do. I'm struck by your strong opinion towards a single CPU. i'm very interested in upgradability and stability, I think this might come with dual CPUs but i'm not sure. I'll work on it and let you know. Thanks for all the advice, it's given me a super start on my knowledge in these regards. Way better than, 'here build this'.
 
This link was supplied to me by runswindows95 in another post:

http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/newsfeed.asp?nid=4960

It is VERY interesting! It is obvious that not only do different applications require different GPU's for optimum performance, but even different functions from the same application perform very differently depending on the GPU.

For 3DS Max, I think I'm going with a GTX-570. For the price, I can always change it later (and use it in a future gaming rig)
 


I really did (most ardently) rummuge thru a good many of the current links and resources, associated with this product, this a.m. ...

I chased the core essense of your question to the bitter end and I ended up at a PARTNER POLICY STATEMENT LINK ... yup.

In essence, this joint statement asserts that BOTH/ALL AutoDesk *and* nVidia *and* AMD/ATi ONLY "CERTIFY" the professional graphics line options, from either/or. ...

Consumer Graphics Cards
Important: Although Autodesk tested the NVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon consumer graphics cards, it is Autodesk, NVIDIA, and AMD policy to only recommend and support the professional NVIDIA Quadro, ATI FirePro, and ATI FireGL graphics family cards.

See the NVIDIA Quadro vs. GeForce GPUs White Paper [PDF].
Technical Brief
NVIDIA Quadro vs. GeForce GPUs
Features and Benefits

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html

If you have any questions, please contact:
NVIDIA: NVIDIAAutodeskhelp@nvidia.com
AMD/ATI: http://emailcustomercare.amd.com
... And ... there was also this interesting link:




This is about serious realities. Think of this as a MilSpec Standard.

Bridges and tunnels collapse, every now and then ... Jets crash, etc. And the finger-pointing begins ... Contractural liabilities and a controlled "quality channel" for GSE Bids.

If BOEING or FORD is complaining about driver issues, to nVidia support and product development reps (living on-site?) ... Well ... nVidia is definately going to respond to those customers, let alone some issue that might affect command and control display systems, in the nuclear power and military industrial complex.

If you are a graduate sdudent/intern, in the Schools of Engineering/Architecture/Chemistry, etc. ... Your school work is likely to become part of some skyscraper, if your designs should win some competition.

If you are using this system for land-scaping, garden design, fashion design, or for tasteful, quasi-erotic photo-art (HQ) ... Well, go for the FERMI and game yer arse off.

Entire cities are designed and controlled (Dubai, et. al.) by such products, ... traffic control, power-mngmnt, ... so ... there is a whole other cultural evolution of the drivers, and of the balance of enabled features (on die) and how they might be adressed.

There is a further link, to a document published by nVidia, which rattles off a checklist
 


Yeah ... You DO that! ... "Work on it and let me know!" ... (LoL!)

Opinion? Dude ... Either you were not listening OR you just are not getting the point (just yet ... but you will).

FORGET the number of CPUs !!! NOT RELEVANT! AT ALL !!!

The whole point is that you CAN get these tools to run on modest systems (even powerful notebooks, certified by model) ... BUT ... These powerful professional toolsets can utilize many processing THREADS and will make use of all the speed and memory you can throw at it (to a point).

FURTHERMORE ... there is the issue of BUDGET vs. BALANCE ...
Think of this as plumbing ... pipes ... You want data to pour thru it and the narrowest pipe is the bottleneck.

IF YOU ARE NOT WORKING IN A ROOM FULL OF ENGINEERS, FORGET ABOUT MULTIPLE CPUS ... you can't afford it.

You are like a 16 year old asking the driving instructor if you first car should be a Mustang GT or A Formula One Race Coupe ...

I would recommend the Mustang ... It will get you down the road, with "snap" ... and ... if it ain't fast enough, for ya ... you can sink up to $100,000 USD into it and STILL not be close to the cost of an F1 RACER ... And you'll need hotel rooms for your pit-crew, too.

 
Alvin, check this build out. He sort of goes against the whole CPU thing you are saying. This is causing confusion within my cranium. I wouldn't mind spending in the upper $3gs if its worth it in the long run and this is close to it. What are your thoughts on his 'not using desktop parts for a workstation' quote and the CPU choice?

Also, I'll be using this machine as my everything machine that mainly needs to do cad and render work for me.

this build about to be revealed is found as the winning build for a workstation on this thread:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296080-31-best-configs-high-workstation

"+1 not to overclock a workstation and not to use desktop parts on a workstation...

Here is a config -

CPU x2 - Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere

Mobo - SUPERMICRO MBD-X8DAH+-O Extended ATX Server Motherboard

RAM - Definetly an ECC Registered -> 2x
Crucial 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory Model CT3KIT51272BB1339

CASE - LIAN LI PC-A70F
Or
COOLER MASTER ATCS 840

PSU - Seasonic X750 Gold

Workstation card - PNY VCQ4000-PB Quadro 4000 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Workstation Video Card
Or
ATI 100-505604 FirePro V7800 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 CrossFire Supported Workstation Video Card

SSD - I would definitely have a SSD just for the boot times and the app load times,...
OCZ Agility 2 120GB

HDD for apps and other high I/O operations - 2x in RAID 0
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD6000HLHX 600GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

DATA Drive - Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000 HDS722020ALA330 (0F10311) 2TB

BD Burner - LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner - LightScribe Support

Total - ~$4200"
 



Wow! That was a great article ... pretty squirrelly benches, eh??

I also could throw a link that shows how to hack the MPE config file for any geForce card, ... but I won't.
 




Alvin, all this stuff is giving me a headache, literally. Can we talk about something off-topic for a minute?

I see your little picture says "Espresso Addict" Is it true? Because I cannot LIVE without espresso. I have an Isomac TEA and a Mazzer Mini. But lately I've been so broke I can't afford decent beans. I've been forced to buy them at... actually I'm too embarrassed to say. But they've been getting me by. I could really use a good shot right now, but I'm at work, and my machine is at home. Actually I do have an old Silvia here, which was my first machine, but no grinder, so I get stuck drinking coffee-flavored water from the Melitta thing.

Anyway, back to the computer stuff... Somehow I managed to miss that Nvidia PDF you posted. It's very informative. Now I really don't know what to do. Did you see this:

http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/newsfeed.asp?nid=4960 ?

I'm really only interested in 3DS Max. According to that guy, for 3DS Max, the GTX 480 (was) the best overall GPU. That's why I decided on the GTX 570 until I read the Nvidia PDF you posted. So now I don't know. Would you just TELL me what card to get? Thanks! 😀
 
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