High-End Workstation!

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Wow, lots of information here. Let's see...

Lithotech: I think I might have preferred the top PSU placement as well, but then again, I'm not sure that the air from the very hot parts on the mobo would be exhausted well enough. As is, it'll be OK. Also, the Galaxy has 60cm ATX12V and 2x8-pin 12V connectors, while the TJ10 is only 52cm tall! I checked that. So I think cabling might work well, actually, in this particular case. I was thinking about running the main power cables behind the motherboard tray. The power connectors for that Tyan are all located in great places and I can do exactly the same that has been done in this picture for the ATX Power connector:

tj10-q5600-02.jpg


Great, huh? But I need those 60cm that the Enermax Galaxy has to offer. The only thing I still don't know is something that could solve your other complaint about heat: should I really mount the galaxy so that cool air gets sucked from under the case, through the bottom grill?... I'm guessing yes, and in that case, hot air from the PSU would get exhausted directly outside the case by the 80mm fan. Remember, the galaxy actually has 2 fans!

Also, on the issue of cooling these xeons, the thermalright coolers are obviously much better than the chunks of bladed copper that Intel sells with those xeons. The stock coolers don't even have heatpipes, for crying out lout! The heatsinks will be enough. If I have problems with heat, it'll only be because of insufficient air flow.

Amiga500: We've done extensive tests that show C2D to be a much greater performer than any of the 65nm K8-derivatives, but we have not had the opportunity to test barcelona, nor is it readily available in any of the local stores. I'm very skeptical about it in its current iteration, so I'm very reluctant to advise getting a barcelona over a well-established and mature 45nm, 1.6Ghz dual-FSB workstation like this. Also, we're not interested in graphical work: this will be a number cruncher.

On the issue of OSs:We do not use commercial scientific code, we write our own code. You're probably using CentOS (more likely) or Fedora (less likely), right? I'm considering CentOS for this workstation, but that decision is still a long time away.

Thanks for your input, everyone.
 
The TJ07 is a great case too... I actually considered it first, but then moved on to the TJ10 because it became available and it's also quite beautiful. The store is out of TJ07s but has TJ10s in stock.

The advantage of sticking with the TJ07 would be that the lower intake could be used for getting fresh air from the outside for the wind tunnel effect. Also, it's worth noting that the TJ07 can be had for roughly the same price as the TJ10.

I'm still somewhat more inclined to go with the TJ10 because of its overall construction. The TJ07 won't be as forgiving for the motherboard cables: they cannot be routed easily behind the motherboard tray and then suddenly appear right where needed because there's no opening on the upper part of the motherboard backplate as the TJ10.

I hope I have this thought out right. I'd be disappointed to find my theories to be wrong by the time of assembly.
 
Oh yeah! I saw that Skulltrail motherboard and it looks as if it packs quite a punch. A picture says it all:

big_skultrail_2.jpg


(I just couldn't resist posting the actual picture) I mean, look at the massive amount of heatsinks!

All in all, however, the memory configuration probably offers less bandwidth than the four-channel FBDIMM configuration, but way less latency as well. This is probably just a cheapened server board that has been made stylish and attractive for enthusiasts; after all, for running stock these fancy heatsinks are not required. If they were, servers would have them too: servers are built for reliability... Might it be a little faster? Yes. But not by much, I think. Bottom line: both platforms are screamers!!! And I guess we don't really have that many reviews around to really be able to compare them any better than that... I think skulltrail's not even out yet, right?...

Also, supremelaw, thanks a lot for your links. There's some great material in there! Reviews for V8 platforms and similar motherboards. These Intel "pedestals" are interesting, but I'm afraid they might be a little hard to get. They look very good indeed.
 
I think that slow boot times are a reflection of the need to read huge amounts of data from a physical hard drive while booting. The mechanical interfaces for the non-volatile memory are rather restrictive in performance, and that causes slow boot times. But because RAM is volatile, a cold boot wouldn't be helped by a RAMdrive, would it?... I mean, all system memory would be empty and all pertinent data would have to be read off a hard drive... Or am I wrong?... What do you think?...

For a computer that stays on, though, RAMdisks are a very, very practical way to write and read from what seems to be a directory. You can even use that with unmodified code that does a lot of hard drive I/O!! And it's quite possible to assemble computers with 64GB of memory. This Tyan board supports that easily, and I even checked out the price for that: unfortunately, this would almost double the total system cost. But if you have a lot of HD I/O and need no more than 64GB, then RAMdisks beat any kind of RAID or whatever you can imagine by a huge margin.

You gotta love technology!!! :)

Also, as far as high-performance FB-DIMMs go, these DDR2-800 ones are the best on the market right now... And they run in sync with the 1600Mhz FSB. I've heard of lower latency FB-DIMMs, but I think that was just wishful thinking at this point: DDR2-800 FB-DIMMs are all standard JEDEC 5-5-5 latencies, AFAIK.
 
These are interesting results, but I'd expect these Harpertowns to still outperform that 2400MB/s by a wide margin. Their FSB gives them a theoretical 12.8GB/s, and four channels of DDR2-800 is enough for some 25.6GB/s. Sure, in theory, 12.8GB/s will only be a theorical maximum, but if the results from Theinq are to be believed, the (single-threaded) memory bandwidth for this platform lies roughly at 9GB/s, which is quite high. It's more than the theoretical maximum throughput of the 1066Mhz FSB of the earlier C2Ds...
 
Great, huh? But I need those 60cm that the Enermax Galaxy has to offer. The only thing I still don't know is something that could solve your other complaint about heat: should I really mount the galaxy so that cool air gets sucked from under the case, through the bottom grill?... I'm guessing yes, and in that case, hot air from the PSU would get exhausted directly outside the case by the 80mm fan. Remember, the galaxy actually has 2 fans
Click to expand...

I completely missed that the TJs are bottom mounted PSUs! As per the pic, cable routing is not a huge concern. Especially if that Galaxy has 60cm lines! Your biggest problem will be stashing unused cables and length.

The Galaxy has 2 x 8pin EPS? Or is one of them actually 2 x 4pin? One of the mobos you were looking at, maybe both the Tyan and Supermicro, take one 8pin EPS and two separate 4pin 12V. Many EPS PSUs only give you the 2 x 4pin which can be used as a single 4pin 12V or both as an 8opin EPS. Some give you a single 8pin EPS and a single 4pin 12V. I was snooping around a bit the other day looking for a standard size PSU with 2 x 4pin and 1 x 8pin, and never found anything except for high end server PSUs that are not standard size, cost a small fortune, and usually have redundant units built in. If one of the Galaxy's 8 pins are actually 2 x 4pin, this is good info indeed!

Interesting to note, the first PSU I ever bought for home here that had EPS was an Enermax -- it's still kicking without a burp.

You have little choice as to the PSU sucking cool air from the bottom intake. It wouldn't be very effective to mount a fan in that lower grill as exhaust. Just be certain that the rear exhaust fans are actually pushing air out, and not sucking warm PSU exhaust air in! I've also found problems if the case is backed in too close to a wall or other obstruction, give it at least 12 inches clearance behind it or the hot exhaust air will pocket there and possibly get sucked back into the case. When I've encountered this, the systems were literally cooking inside. Move the case away from the wall, and temps drastically drop to normal.

The TJ10 is an outstanding case. There is one on display with a working system in it at my main supplier. I can safely say you will be quite satisfied with it, and probably no suprises when you assemble the system. It is very well thought out and can contain even the largest of components. I'd have to study a few reviews on it to find any faults that others have encountered.

The TJ07 was king of the hill before the TJ09 came out, and the TJ10 is an updated version of the TJ09, very little difference except for minor improvements of oversights they made with the TJ09.

The TJ07 obviously still holds a market share of it's own with the dual PSU slots, and lower chamber for 6 HDs.






 


It definately makes a HUGE difference. I run a DP Opteron 246 system with the Zalman CP9500 coolers. I removed the protective grill on the rear of my case and I was able to take the fans off the zalman cpu coolers. I saw no noticable rise in temps, and its a heckofa lot quieter too.

One other thing to consider with this system - unless its going to be sitting in a server room or other place that doesnt collect a lot of dust you may want to look at a positive pressure setup -- more intake than exhaust. This will help to keep the dust collection inside to a minimum.

As for 4pin 120mm fans, try this place:
http://www.svc.com/120x25mmfans2.html
 
I completely missed that the TJs are bottom mounted PSUs! As per the pic, cable routing is not a huge concern. Especially if that Galaxy has 60cm lines! Your biggest problem will be stashing unused cables and length.
Click to expand...

Well, the Enermax Galaxy is modular, and I hope that will help things a lot. I still have to check that out!

If one of the Galaxy's 8 pins are actually 2 x 4pin, this is good info indeed!
Click to expand...

Actually, the Galaxy has one 8-pin connector and one 2x4-pin connector. It has everything you could ever possibly need. It's modular, packs an awesome amount of power and has, well, pretty much all connectors you can imagine! Gotta love this PSU!

As for Silverstone cutting the hole for fans, I did the same thing to an old computer here for its 80mm exhaust and was absolutely amazed at how much airflow has improved. I added a simple 80mm grill. Considering that this grill was extremely cheap and that I simply used good pliers and some patience, I'm amazed that so many cases still have restrictive grills! Just cut'em out, people! It's better for cooling and the lack of turbulence even makes the computer quieter!

Thanks again for all comments, everyone!! :)
 
Quick note on a couple things...

I noticed the Skulltrail has 2 x 8 pin connectors, but can't see any others like an extra 4 pin or two.

I've been looking at an Enlight SR506 pedestal case (real budget line, but looks OK for basics). Using this chart I found through them: http://support.enlightcorp.com.tw/SR506-5U-mb-list.htm?SN=53 I saw mobo power requirements stating: 24x8x5 and even 24x8x4x5 (for the S5000XVN). Anyone know what they mean by the x5? Never seen a 5 pin... any examples with pics?

If you back up a page, there is more listings and charts with various mobos and power requirements, pretty handy: http://support.enlightcorp.com.tw/mbp-list.htm

Also, these systems need at least 850w to run, great quote on this here: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_quad-core_xeon_5365_v8/page2.asp

If you’re going to have a Octo-core system, you might as well have a flagship GPU. Right now, that means you’re looking at another 175 to 185W. Each FB-DIMM runs a little over 10W, and the 750GB perpendicular recording drives from Seagate in our system eat up another 13W each during seek. You’re looking at about 75W for the motherboard, case fans, keyboard/mouse, USB hubs, etc. That’s about 625W of potential peak load. Add in 15% for surge compensation and 20% “fudge factor” for electrolytic aging and the need for a 1kW power supply seems pretty clear. Remember, we’re not even using 10,000 or 15,000 RPM drives in this machine.
Click to expand...

Other than the Galaxy and OCZ examples, what PSUs at that range have 2 x 8pin, as well as an extra 4pin or 5 pin? Although I can't see an example of 24x8x4x4 in the list, I am sure that either the Tyan or Supermicro (or both) earlier in this thread clearly showed 24x8x4x4 -- yet I have not come across a PSU with an 8pin and 2x 4pins!

Partially answering my own question: PC P&C's 1KW and 1200w both have 2x 8pin and 1x 4pin, but still no 5pin or dual 4pins there.

Lastly, came across a good example of difficulty in cable management with a bottom mounted PSU. I'm not knocking the technology, just wanted to post the pic here to show how at least one guy said %$@#-it and just connected things as best he could.

Also from here: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_quad-core_xeon_5365_v8/page2.asp

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5734/tj07mess1024jf3.jpg

.
 


Good point! Anything the fan blades have to pass in close proximity causes noise. This is why suspended fans like Arctic Cooling's Freezer or ACFL120 are so quiet. The traditional fan housing causes noise as the ends of the fan blades spin in constant close proximity to the outside frame of the housing. Remove this frame, and the fan is quieter. Therefore, the same goes for anything else that gets close to the blades. Cases that have a tight grating on the fan mounts cause more noise as well as reduce effectiveness. I've run into extreme situations where something else has come too close to the fan and cause unbearable noise. Restriction of the airflow also causes noise in the same effect that you get when you plug the nozzle of your vacuume cleaner.

Any time I run into this and the case is already gutted or brand new without anything installed yet, I don't think twice about pulling out my trusty dremel and cutting the grating out. It only takes a moment to cut, but a little longer to file down the sharp edges. I add a couple wire grills for safety, which I make 100% markup on, and loose only a bit of time with the work yet the difference is stunning.

Very interesting on the positive air pressure! Worthy of more thought and perhaps some testing as I have a couple of systems that I found to have a natural positive flow and worked excessively to get them negative. As for when dust is an issue, I pick up these snap on filters for cases that don't come with a filter. If I seal off all other possible intakes in a negative pressure situation, I then have complete control of where the air is coming in, filter that and it works great. I've also used Scythe's Kama Bay for this, it has a decent filter, looks very nice, but the slow moving fan that comes with it is necessary because a faster fan will start sucking the filter into the blades. So if I need a fast fan in the Kama Bay, I have to remove the filter -- the intake grating on it still works as a filter to some degree. Another trick I do is use dry duster cloths for things like the Swiffer duster or a piece of Bounce anti-stat cloths dryer material, or some types of household scrubbers, and even cut up a furnace filter. Place these materials over the intake and as far away from the fan as possible, run it for a week and you'd be suprised how much crap they catch. Run it for a couple months, and see how clean the system still is inside!

Heheh, my workshop is in my home, and nothing is off limits as far as what I may use to accomplish things. Some of my best materials come from a Dollar Store or the household and automotive department of WallMart!

.
 


Great! Perfect! It'll do for a 24x8x4x4 connection then!

.
 
A positive pressure setup probably isn't very easy to do with the TJ10 because, well, there's only one intake fan and three exhaust fans... but I'll think about it.

The retailer I'm dealing with just got a batch of CM Cosmos 1000 cases!! I considered those for a while, but I think I'll stick with the Silverstone one...

The final decision to buy this workstation will be made next week!
 
I'm baaaack. But only for a bit. Been prety crazy around the shop and my gf has just decided that she wants to have a baby so weve been tryng... a lot! :wahoo:

Thats good. I could use a rugrat around the shop to hold frame tubes while I weld em! Why pay 'em when you can make 'em? :pt1cable:



Let me know how it goes. Love to know how it runs for ya. Ive been so damn busy I havent even gotten around to getin my E8400 yet, so I might yet spring for a couple of Harpies! The critical point right now seems to be findng the right CHEAP mobo!
 
The Cosmos is sweet, that's for sure. Be great for if silence is a concern. It's nice that it comes with all the fans, 6 in all I think. Amazing it's a full EATX size, it isn't as big as the TJ but can hold the same, and literally tons of room with an ATX board in it. But it weights a ton, and even with all those fans it doesn't cool as well as you'd think. I'd definately like one for the home and/or office, I'd get rid of my P180 for it. The killer is, for a few bucks more I could get a Stacker 830, another case I'd really like in the office. Very dusty here, so the fan filters on the P180 are a huge benefit, the Stacker would get very dirty very fast. I think the Cosmos is filtered, anyone know?

Gratz on the reproducing binge! You can never get too much, eh? Copulation delight! Having kids is a life changing experience. It's the one thing almost all people strive to achieve, the urge to do so is a natural compulsion that can be most impossible to resist. One feels complete, whole, achieving the ultimate goal in life. Hopefully she won't become pregnant too quickly... :bounce:

.
 
The professor has chosen to buy this workstation!!! :bounce:

We'll stick with the Silverstone TJ10 case. It'll take like forever for the actual components to get here (probably 30+ days) because they'll all be imported to Brazil and, well, this is a slow process. In any case, I'm not worried: because of AMD's lackluster performance, there won't be any 2-socket system capable of outperforming this workstation for a while. (except, of course, for the 3.2Ghz harpertown)

But once all the parts are here, I'll see if I can put it all together, take some pics, and post them here for you all to comment. Wow. This will be interesting. :sol:
 
I realize I'm late to the game here, but just for someone's future reference: I would really suggest that with all the power in this system that the hard disks ought to be 15,000 RPM drives.

-Danny.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom