Hmmm, budget build with some longevity .... thinking Ryzen 1600?

neiler0847

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It's been two years since my last build and I'm itching!

My objectives:

  • ■ I'd like to build something on a reasonable budget that will last for a while.
    ■ I'm not a PC-gamer, preferring a couch, PS4 and large-screen TV for video games.
    ■ I've never overclocked my 4790K system, but would like to leave the option open.
    ■ I'd like to experiment with an M.2 NVMe SSD.
I am a little annoyed with Intel after reading stories about inconsisent Kaby-Lake processor quality and heat issues. This whole Ryzen thing sounds pretty cool, and I wouldn't mind putting a few dollars into a competitor's pockets. I think Intel has maybe gotten a little too comfortable.

I like the price-points of the Ryzen 5's, and was reading that the 1500X and 1600 come with AMD's Wraith Spire cooler, so that makes those processors even more price-compelling. Sure, I can get a Hyper 212 cooler for $25, but that is another $25, and then I have to worry about case size.

I like the 1600 over the 1500X for the extra two cores. And the review of the 1500X on tom's HARDWARE was not compelling.

I was also a little concerned when I read that the Ryzen processors don't include graphics support, but it appears that this just means that the motherboard manufacturers throw a few more chips on the board. I wouldn't be adding a discrete graphics card to start.

When it comes to motherboards, I think there might be justification for the X370 chipset over the B350 chipset. I like the extra USB ports, SATA ports and PCI-E lanes. My PCI-E needs would be NVME SSD, wifi card and a discrete graphics card (eventually). It'd be nice to still have SATA bandwidth for an additional drive or two. I don't think an optical drive is required.

Anyway, enough talking ..... any opinions?


 
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($217.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard ($138.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team T-Force / Night Hawk 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: MyDigitalSSD BPX 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.66 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 480 8GB GTR Video Card ($224.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($61.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($47.78 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($86.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1065.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-02 13:07 EDT-0400
 
Your 4790k still performs among the best CPUs on the market for gaming, still pummeling everything except the 6700k and 7700k. No need to upgrade the CPU. The only upgrade i'd consider is a graphics card upgrade.
Ryzen is more suited to editing/rendering or a replacement for an i5 for mid range gaming systems.
 

marko55

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Rude, arrogant and clearly naive that you think that someone's Toms Hardware profile (and I'm assuming the badges maybe?) speaks to their hardware knowledge.

You just ran a "value" comparison using a $90 AIO cooler I never even mentioned. The H60 I'm speaking about is only $65. And yes, I do find value in liquid coolers because of the room it leaves in the middle of my cases. Granted, the 20+ machines I've built in the last 2 years were on X99 & X79, across the entire CPU line, some OC'd some not and in full tower cases. I'm here to tell you, from a business perspective, an AIO liquid cooler has more wow factor than an air cooler to customers that appreciate "high end" even if its not really providing any additional benefit over air. And no, this does not apply to this thread as we're not talking about marketing for this build. Its simply a preference thing by many people.

"An air cooler in the same price range will cool better while also opening up more room for airflow in the case vs a radiator cooler." Not sure what you mean.
The Cryorig H5 Universal is a 140mm x 140mm, which is huge in the middle of a case compared to a small pump that sits close to the motherboard, leaving the middle of the case open for air flow. Yes, the rear mounted radiator with one fan on the H60 sticks out from the rear a bit but absolutely does not disrupt airflow in even a mid-tower ATX case. Frankly I'd say that both solutions will maintain acceptable airflow depending on the case.

To say that "the H60 is a terrible choice for any CPU" is just wrong, period. Its a very feasible AIO cooler for a solution that doesn't require high end and expensive cooling, just like this one, which is why I threw the suggestion out there. Some people prefer the look and setup of liquid coolers. You can hate on them all you want but there's an AIO liquid cooler at a lot of price points for people that want to use them. I won't BS, yeah, the stock fans can be a little noisy or "whiney." I actually replace them all with decent high static pressure 3rd party fans or white LED fans which serve a purpose of lighting things up also.

Its great that you read all these articles but I've built two Ryzen machines in the last month; one on a 1700X and one on a 1600X. Both used different Corsair AIO 120mm coolers. The 1700X has an H60 and that cooler handles that (overclocked) CPU absolutely perfectly and at a great price. Could I have used air? Yeah, absolutely, but I prefer liquid coolers. I'm simply providing my personal experience as a viable option.

Hell, my initial recommendation was to just buy the 1600 that comes with the wraith cooler because again, it will actually cool the CPU just fine unless you start trying to put high voltages through it. These CPUs cannot clock that high to require anything crazy. I know, I've tried...twice!

Clearly you've got some knowledge but I suggest being careful making such "certain" statements. Different people are gonna have different preferences than you and certainly different designs. It doesn't make them wrong; they're just different than yours, and at the end of the day if somebody wants to throw an H110 on a non-K i5 its their prerogative no matter how stupid either you or I think it is. People come here for your advice and expertise; they deserve to be well informed.
 

marko55

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That's correct. There are air coolers that are better than AIO liquid coolers. Still kinda missing the point here though.

Buying a cooler isn't 100% about what's gonna give you 3-5c lower max load temps, especially when you're talking about 52-55c under load where either is absolutely fine. When you build a new rig and you go cooler shopping, what are you looking for? First, yeah, should be looking for one that's gonna cool your CPU well, especially if you've overclocking. I guarantee though that you find multiple air AND AIO liquid coolers that will do it. You're then gonna choose if you want air or liquid based on many factors (room in your case, how it mounts, how it looks, are you afraid an AIO cooler is gonna bust and spew liquid all over your components). We've all made this very decision. Some are going to choose one, some the other. Its a VERY simply matter of preference, then cost, of course.

The single most important point is what's going to effectively cool your CPU. That's why the cheap H60 is a perfectly viable option in this case IF you happen to like AIO liquid coolers. That cooler will effectively cool a Ryzen chip, even if OC'd to its max simply because Ryzen's max is gonna be (hopefully) 4.0 in most scenarios, and you don't have to push high voltage to get there. These chips don't get that hot because they just can't OC high like Intel chips, unless you go nuts cranking voltage. There's a reason that the guy who broke the record OC'ing a Ryzen chip used LN2....

If this discussion was about OC'ing a 7700K or a Broadwell-E/Haswell-E I certainly wouldn't be recommending an H60. Personally I use H105s in these builds and it performs very well, but that's just me. If you wanna slap a 140mm dual fan air cooler on it more power to ya. I've got a dual Xeon 2650-v3 build sitting next to me right now, in a cheap full tower ATX case, that I used Noctua air coolers on and not liquid. With the right case I could have used liquid but that's just not how I designed it. Its a simple matter of finding a cooler that will effectively cool your CPU(s), on the budget you want, in a form factor that you like. That's what its all about here guys, not a bunch of charts.

BTW Jack, I don't think he was talking about your profile. He was talking about mine.
 

okcnaline

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Absolute butchering of the definition of dual channel memory. When RAM sticks run in dual channel, it runs faster because the memory controller has another stick of RAM to throw random files to store. It doesn't stress the memory controller.



You know I have to report this disrespect, right? No ad hominem attacks, please.



You know why people use water cooling? Specific heat of liquid water is higher than that of air. The math goes:

Pw=E/t, where E = the unit Joules, t = time
Let E be H because same unit
H=mS(delta T) where H = heat, m = mass (ignore it for this matter), S = specific heat, delta T = change of temperature
Assume m is constant, temperature for the proof is constant (air cooler and water cooler, which one goes to the temperature faster), and power is constant (like 65 W for Ryzen, 130W for FX, 95 W for i7-7700K, etc.). Given is that S of liquid water is higher than that of air. Heat directly varies with specific heat; the others are constant. So, higher the specific heat, more heat is the result. Heat over time is power. So, because heat by air cooling is lower, less time is used to achieve x amount of power.

That's what water cooling is for: to increase time that it takes for the CPU to get hot. You're bound to get the same temperature as an air cooler; it's just that the amount of time it stays cooler than expected temperature would lengthen lifespan of a CPU.


OP: Sorry that this thread derailed like such. Can you tell me what games you play so I can give you the best advice I could possibly give?
 

Jack_242

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AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor $217.55

MSI X370 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX AM4 Motherboard $173.29

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory $114.99

Deepcool CAPTAIN 240EX WHIT $80.99

Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $127.98

Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $47.45

EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card $300.00 (ebay)

Phanteks ECLIPSE P400S ATX Mid Tower Case $84.99

EVGA B3 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $74.99

Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit 86$

With Liquid AIO:
Base Total: $1319.11
Mail-in Rebates: -$10.00
Total: $1309.11
Without:
Base Total: $1238.12
Mail-in Rebates: -$10.00
Total: $1228.12

Choosing the Ryzen 5 1600 seemed to be the best answer since the other Ryzen 5 models are the same thing just set at a higher clock out of the box. Keeping expansion in mind the MSI X370 PRO GAMING CARBON seemed to be a reasonable priced top tier motherboard that included things the ASUS Crosshair Hero VI did not have. Due to the problems with higher clocked RAM and the new AMD motherboards we kept it simple and went with what is known to work. Skipping over the AIO and storage we move down to the EVGA GTX 980 Ti. The newer 10xx models are out so the older 9xx models have dropped in price making it much more reasonable to grab the best of the best from the previous tier.
 

logainofhades

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No you did mean to be rude, or you wouldn't have said it. I would advise against doing it again.
 

razamatraz

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I built a super budget 1600 with the cheapest board I could find: MSI B350M Gaming Pro MATX and 16 GB of Gskill 3200 RAM. Stuffed it all into a Carbide 88R case and added one fan (unfortunately that board only has 2 case fan headers so adding more will mean a fan controller or ~shudder~ Molex. Even that cheap ass B350 board has no trouble at all running the RAM at 2933 and the CPU at 3.8 full time. Doesn't even take 1.3 volts to hold 3.8 and that was on the old BIOS. 1.35V was getting me 3.9 but temps were getting up there due to case airflow and the Spire. There is a lot of potential to Ryzen.
 

marko55

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Yeah, if you're not gaming, rendering, etc. then honestly why upgrade? Your current CPU is still a beast by today's standards. In fact, if overclocked well it can perform about as well as a brand new (stock) Ryzen 1600 outside of apps that seriously benefit from mutli-threading.

If your current motherboard is lacking in features and you wanna have some fun upgrading you can save yourself some $$ by picking up a sweet board like an ASrock Z97 Extreme6 and an m.2 NVMe SSD (the board supports it), maybe some DDR3 3200 RAM (heck I even have some trident for sale), a liquid cooler and have some fun OC'ing your current rig.

That said, if you wanna do something new, the 1600 is a great choice. Throw it in and OC on the stock cooler by simply setting the multiplier to 3900 and you're off. That's a whole lotta processor if you're not really doin much on your machine though.

What DO you do on your computer?
 
Nah, even if he is doing compute tasks the i7 4790k will still hold its own easily against the 1600, i'd expect it to perform a little worse, but not enough to justify another CPU purchase.
Plus then you have to consider gaming performance, not worth any change at all.
Also in regards to cooler, @OP, if you're not happy with your current cooler, don't get an AIO, a Cryorig H5 will perform much the same as an NH-D15 and costs $45 with no RAM interference.
 

neiler0847

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I don't do anything on my current machine that justifies its current level of performance. And I wouldn't be replacing it.

I just want to build another machine to mess about with and to try some new technologies. Maybe I'll turn it into a media server for my home theater afterwards.
 

Jack_242

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http://www.userbenchmark.com/PCBuilder?tab=RAM

Benchmarks don't lie.
I thought running 4 sticks allows 2x the bandwidth since you are filling all the dual channel slots instead of just the one channel.
 
That's not how it works, dimm slot bandwidth is irrelevant.
Also what 'benchmarks' are you referring to?
I see several dual channel kits in the supposed top rated kits area, its primarily dependent on frequency and CAS timings as well as module quality overall.
No single RAM stick bottlenecks a RAM slot currently that i can think of, that's dependent on the motherboard.
Most B250 boards have a maximum of 32GB RAM support (8GB sticks x4) while most Z series boards support 64GB (16GB modules) to even 128GB with some higher end boards.
Dual channel memory and quad channel are the only factors apart from frequency and module quality that should be considered when taking performance into account.
 

neiler0847

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The Scythe Mugen 5 is only compatible with AM4 if you get a conversion kit.

Scythe will send a free kit to European customers with proof of purchase of the cooler and an AM4 board or processor.

Don't know about North America though.
 

marko55

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A Corsair H60 will cool a Ryzen 1700X OC'd to 3950 at 1.375v just fine. I've done it. You just have to be able to fit it in your case, and order the bracket from corsair.com. There's a TON of very nice mid-tower ATX cases that you can use this cooler in.

If you're gonna push your voltage North of 1.4 the heat starts going up quick on these.

I've also got a 1600X build here that's manually OC'd to 4.0 at 1.375 cooled by an H80i and its very cool. Even under Prime95 load tests, which run CPUs SUPER hot, it only reaches 65c.

In the Corsair AIO line I think the best bang for the buck for Ryzen cooling is the H75. You don't have to worry about manually tuning your pump & fan speeds in Corsair link like the Hxxi units, and that software is flaky. The H75 cools great & you can simply control its fan from your mobo connector.

Bottom line is it doesn't take a lot to cool the Ryzen chips because the vast vast majority really cannot be overclocked over 4.0, and in many cases only 3.9 and the voltage required to do so is pretty low. So if you do wanna stick with air you'd also be fine with a decent air cooler.
 

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