Question Hot Spot temp is worryingly high when gaming ?

[Vaqxai]

Hi,

GPU: ZOTAC RTX 3080 LHR

When gaming, my hot spot temp reaches 103.3 °C (While the GPU Core temp is ≈75 °C and memory junction is about ≈70 °C) I have repasted my GPU (before, hot spot temp was 104.3 °C) but this did not bring a noticeable improvement (to the Hot Spot temps, it decrased core temps by ≈10 °C). This makes my fans spin up quite often and quite loudly (I may also have an issue with fan whine). I created a custom fan curve which makes the fans louder over-all but eliminates fan spikes. I have added a support strut to the GPU in case the plate is getting separated from the radiator because of possible sag, which also did not bring any improvement.

While idle, the core and junction temps are roughly the same (hot spot is ≈10 °C hotter than core/junction)

I also have conflicting information on the desired hot spot temperatures. On one hand I've heard that it is fine to be up to 110 °C, and on the other sources have pointed to a temperature that should be lower.

TL;DR:

• Idle Core 40 °C, Mem junction 40 °C, hot spot 50 °C (C-Hs Δ ≈ 10 °C)
• Load Core 75 °C, Mem junction 70 °C hot spot 90-100 °C (C-Hs Δ ≈ 30 °C)
• Repasted, effect: Core ↓ ≈15°C, Hot Spot ↓ ≈1°C (all above results are after repaste)
• Gpu is supported by a strut to prevent sagging
• The side panel is open and it was quite chilly in the room when test was performed (Ambient ≈ 17 °C)
• I have not exchanged the memory thermal pads, and due to their cost I am not willing to, unless absolutely sure that they are the problem

Edit:
More research indicates possible problems, but further inquiry is required:

• Reassembly might've screwed with thermal pads (dust might've gotten on them, making them uneven?)
• Screws might be tightened unevenly (They have springs, I'm not sure how that affects tightening)
• Thermal paste used might not be good for bare die application (It did bring down the core temp tho), I used thermal grizzly kryonaut.
• Cannot determine if the hot spot is in the memory or the die, that info might shine more light on the problem, but I am unsure how to check that

 

[Silas Sanchez]

As a general rule with electronics they last longer when cooler.
Some will tell you the hot spot temp of <110C is fine, but this is unsound dogma because they never present any data to back up their claims and its usually just a unfounded blanket statement without any consideration to lifespan and user intentions/expectations. Ignore people who sell products and are involved in mining, these are the sources that usually just make unfounded assertions. And data is rather useless in a world were tech is always changing.
My understanding is those cards do run hot and while it my be normal (likely to survive the warranty), it says nothing for longevity and if you want long life the hotspot temp should never go above 90-95C. Certainly not at ambient 17C, god no. Even at 30C ambient my 4080 hotspot under Furmark doesn't go above 85-88C irrc.
The science of the lifespan of silicon chips is scant, the accelerated lab testing at 125C blah blah blah doesn't translate well to real life, just look at those small warranties. Also never get a second hand gpu, just not worth paying those unwarranted inflated prices, dont give them the satisfaction, buy new always.

 

[Flayed]

If you are worried about the hotspot temperature you could consider reducing the power limit to the card and see what the performance difference vs temperature looks like at say 90% or 85% power limit.

 

[Phaaze88]

I used thermal grizzly kryonaut.

Doesn't seem to be great for gpu applications. Try NT-H2, MX-4, PK-3, or Hydronaut instead.

Cannot determine if the hot spot is in the memory or the die

Hot spot is the hottest sensor on the gpu die.

 

[Vaqxai]

Doesn't seem to be great for gpu applications. Try NT-H2, MX-4, PK-3, or Hydronaut instead.


Hot spot is the hottest sensor on the gpu die.

Ordered MX-4. Will report after it arrives. Any tips for tightening the spring loaded screws correctly and testing if they are done right?

Edit: should I use a level to test if the gpu is correctly angled/support strut height?

 

[beyondlogic]

Hi,

GPU: ZOTAC RTX 3080 LHR

When gaming, my hot spot temp reaches 103.3 °C (While the GPU Core temp is ≈75 °C and memory junction is about ≈70 °C) I have repasted my GPU (before, hot spot temp was 104.3 °C) but this did not bring a noticeable improvement (to the Hot Spot temps, it decrased core temps by ≈10 °C). This makes my fans spin up quite often and quite loudly (I may also have an issue with fan whine). I created a custom fan curve which makes the fans louder over-all but eliminates fan spikes. I have added a support strut to the GPU in case the plate is getting separated from the radiator because of possible sag, which also did not bring any improvement.

While idle, the core and junction temps are roughly the same (hot spot is ≈10 °C hotter than core/junction)

I also have conflicting information on the desired hot spot temperatures. On one hand I've heard that it is fine to be up to 110 °C, and on the other sources have pointed to a temperature that should be lower.

TL;DR:

• Idle Core 40 °C, Mem junction 40 °C, hot spot 50 °C (C-Hs Δ ≈ 10 °C)
• Load Core 75 °C, Mem junction 70 °C hot spot 90-100 °C (C-Hs Δ ≈ 30 °C)
• Repasted, effect: Core ↓ ≈15°C, Hot Spot ↓ ≈1°C (all above results are after repaste)
• Gpu is supported by a strut to prevent sagging
• The side panel is open and it was quite chilly in the room when test was performed (Ambient ≈ 17 °C)
• I have not exchanged the memory thermal pads, and due to their cost I am not willing to, unless absolutely sure that they are the problem

Edit:
More research indicates possible problems, but further inquiry is required:

• Reassembly might've screwed with thermal pads (dust might've gotten on them, making them uneven?)
• Screws might be tightened unevenly (They have springs, I'm not sure how that affects tightening)
• Thermal paste used might not be good for bare die application (It did bring down the core temp tho), I used thermal grizzly kryonaut.
• Cannot determine if the hot spot is in the memory or the die, that info might shine more light on the problem, but I am unsure how to check that

for the record thermal grizzly is absolute garbage paste in terms of spreading its good at cooling only if you use a decent amount of the stuff. dont use a dot. your best using a line or very carefully spreading it out manually. more is less.

as for thermal pads for best result

use either thermal minus pads or

ARCTIC TP-3​

Gelid Solutions GP-Ultimate​

​

oily residue is a sign of a failing pad. ​

springs should be fully compressed

the springs prevent over tightening so you dont crack the die.

i use thermalright tf8 or tfx 2

​

for best spread tighten in a x pattern 1 and 4 and 2 and 3

 

[Phaaze88]

Any tips for tightening the spring loaded screws correctly and testing if they are done right?

Cross pattern, turn until they stop you - do not go any further.

Edit: should I use a level to test if the gpu is correctly angled/support strut height?

Shouldn't need to go THAT far.

 

[Vaqxai]

Okay, so it turns out the screws weren't really *that* tight, because old me thought the springs would do the rest of the job. Did as you suggested, and tightened them in a cross pattern until I met resistance, without pushing further.

The Hot Spot temp now is 85C when the gpu core under load is 65C with an ambient 25C. (So all temps are considerably down and the delta is now 20C instead of 30C)
The MX-4 paste is still going to arrive, so I'm going to apply that instead of the kryonaut when it comes, but this, still, is I think the solution of the problem. Screws weren't tight enough.

I know it's overkill, but I checked if the GPU is level, and it's as level as it can be.

 

[Vaqxai]

for the record thermal grizzly is absolute garbage paste in terms of spreading its good at cooling only if you use a decent amount of the stuff. dont use a dot. your best using a line or very carefully spreading it out manually. more is less.

as for thermal pads for best result

use either thermal minus pads or

ARCTIC TP-3​

Gelid Solutions GP-Ultimate​

​

oily residue is a sign of a failing pad. ​

springs should be fully compressed

the springs prevent over tightening so you dont crack the die.

i use thermalright tf8 or tfx 2

​

for best spread tighten in a x pattern 1 and 4 and 2 and 3

Thank you so so much for the tips on the paste. Will apply with MX-4 when it comes.

On another note, I'm also waiting for a new CPU cooler. Should I keep the kryonaut on the CPU or also use MX-4? I'm guessing give it a lot of the kryonaut otherwise it won't spread right, as you said, yes?

 

[beyondlogic]

Thank you so so much for the tips on the paste. Will apply with MX-4 when it comes.

On another note, I'm also waiting for a new CPU cooler. Should I keep the kryonaut on the CPU or also use MX-4? I'm guessing give it a lot of the kryonaut otherwise it won't spread right, as you said, yes?

My method for thermal grizzly or gummy paste.
Mx4 spreads well but isn't as good as thermal grizzly or t8

Tf8 is kind of in the middle


Use a vinyl non powdered glove use all the tube as the vinyl glove will stick to paste use your index finger to spread paste evenly over the die you should not be able to see the heat spreader of CPU. Reason I suggest vinyl glove over spatula the plastic spatula tends to take alot of the paste with it . You can do this method on GPU but do not apply pressure just run your finger gently over the die or you'll crack it. You do not need to apply pressure in either method though your just guiding the paste .mx4 spreads well but has a curing time of about 1 month from my experience.

Your wanting a very thin layer of paste but you should not see the CPU ihs or die of gpu

 

[Phaaze88]

Thank you so so much for the tips on the paste. Will apply with MX-4 when it comes.

You can keep the Kryonaut on there until it no longer works. The hot spot is now good. Keep the MX-4 for later.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know?

My point of the earlier suggestions was paste viscosity, a subject that gets overlooked(info isn't widely available), as it matters more with naked die applications, which this is.

I'm guessing give it a lot of the kryonaut otherwise it won't spread right, as you said, yes?

Kryonaut is intended to be spread manually. It also degrades faster at higher temperatures(approx 80C).
This info is on the product website.

Mx4 ... isn't as good as thermal grizzly or t8

Tf8 is kind of in the middle

What is this based on? IHS, gpu, or laptop applications? I hope you're not implying the behavior and performance is the same regardless...

 

[beyondlogic]

You can keep the Kryonaut on there until it no longer works. The hot spot is now good. Keep the MX-4 for later.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know?

My point of the earlier suggestions was paste viscosity, a subject that gets overlooked(info isn't widely available), as it matters more with naked die applications, which this is.


Kryonaut is intended to be spread manually. It also degrades faster at higher temperatures(approx 80C).
This info is on the product website.


What is this based on? IHS, gpu, or laptop applications? I hope you're not implying the behavior and performance is the same regardless...

By mx4 being not as good as thermal grizzly and tf8 is simply mx4 from my own usage and others reviews it's about 3 degrees more then the others. And tends from my own usage and experience and observation that it tends to allow alot of wild swings in temperature before it settles. again my own experience.

I found tf8 to be in middle spreads like mx4 but seems to keep the temps more in check.

I used mx4 on my GPU it would hit 80c tf wouldn't even go past 72c

Same with issue with mx4 on my Ryzen CPU

And did the exact same test with tf8.

Found same behaviour.

The new Mx6 is similar to tf8 just tf8 is easier to spread.

I think because mx4 is more fluid like it has issues maintaining big swings in temp it does get better after about a month but not what I recommend for GPU usage.

 

[Vaqxai]

Huh, so kind of unnecessarily bought the MX-4 then. I did manually apply the kryonaut, worked the spatula for about 30 mins on both gpu and cpu until both were perfectly flat and as thin as possible (i heard somewhere that metal-on-metal is preferable to metal-paste-metal, and the paste is just there to be instead of air, so the paste layer should be very thin)

Just wondering whether i should use the mx-4 or the kryonaut on the new cpu cooler once it comes. I do expect it to be 80C or above, though i might get pleasntly surprised (the new cooler is a NH-D15), i've always used stock coolers, and the CPU is a r7 5800x3d, with the larger amd stock cooler on it (wraith?) that i had left over after changing from a 7 3700x. The temps under load are 80-90 right now.

 

[beyondlogic]

Huh, so kind of unnecessarily bought the MX-4 then. I did manually apply the kryonaut, worked the spatula for about 30 mins on both gpu and cpu until both were perfectly flat and as thin as possible (i heard somewhere that metal-on-metal is preferable to metal-paste-metal, and the paste is just there to be instead of air, so the paste layer should be very thin)

Just wondering whether i should use the mx-4 or the kryonaut on the new cpu cooler once it comes. I do expect it to be 80C or above, though i might get pleasntly surprised (the new cooler is a NH-D15), i've always used stock coolers, and the CPU is a r7 5800x3d, with the larger amd stock cooler on it (wraith?) that i had left over after changing from a 7 3700x. The temps under load are 80-90 right now.

That cooler with that processor should be around 35-47c idle and roughly 65c to 75c

Id use the kryonaut keep the mx4 as a back up. If your occing the processor it may be better with mx4 for longevity

Wraith coolers and stock are fine but there really only as a its enough to cool it out of the danger zone. The lower your temp the longer your CPU can maintain boost clocks.

Same goes for GPU.

 

[Phaaze88]

(i heard somewhere that metal-on-metal is preferable to metal-paste-metal, and the paste is just there to be instead of air, so the paste layer should be very thin)

Very much this, though it's better to use too much, than too little, as any excess should be squeezed out by cooler mounting pressure.

Just wondering whether i should use the mx-4 or the kryonaut on the new cpu cooler once it comes. I do expect it to be 80C or above, though i might get pleasntly surprised (the new cooler is a NH-D15), i've always used stock coolers, and the CPU is a r7 5800x3d, with the larger amd stock cooler on it (wraith?) that i had left over after changing from a 7 3700x. The temps under load are 80-90 right now.

Kryonaut's already open, so use that one.
5800X3D is a bit much for the Ryzen boxed cooler, plus the current case cooling trends hinder downdraft cpu coolers.

 

[Vaqxai]

Very much this, though it's better to use too much, than too little, as any excess should be squeezed out by cooler mounting pressure.


Kryonaut's already open, so use that one.
5800X3D is a bit much for the Ryzen boxed cooler, plus the current case cooling trends hinder downdraft cpu coolers.

Got it, got it. I'll use kryonaut for the CPU. Yeah, I noticed it's too much, it's why I ordered the new cooler.

Not going to open the GPU again, though, until the temps become bad, I've read too much about cracked dies. (Even though the springs are supposed to protect from that). Ignorance is bliss I guess. I didn't know about that being a thing when I was repasting it earlier.