News How Bots Took Over the RTX 3080 Launch

[Metteec]

The bots are prolific in everything that has value. Music, clothing, technology products, and they will continue to plague online purchasing. The problem is that online merchants are not taking steps to prevent bot purchases, and most merchants not only don't care, but would prefer selling to the bots. Purchasing for resale is an exception to all third-party payment terms and conditions, so a scalper that buys for resale cannot successfully chargeback if the item item is not as described/damaged/buyer's remorse/whatever.

The problem is that it is too easy to bot. It is a win/win situation. If the item is sought after, they can easily sell for significant markup. If the item turns out to be common, they can cancel their order with no restriction. The key to fighting against these bots is:

1) Implement human interaction in the checkout process. Use CAPTCHA or similar bot prevention tools.

2) Institute steep restocking fees and disallow order cancellations for hot, new items.

3) Allow buyers to win a time-limited spot in line through challenges and community involvement. For example, community members that were engaged in the community; like/repost certain posts on social media; or generated unique content could win a 24-hour spot in line.

But make no mistake, this launch was NVIDIA's failure. As a stockholder, I am very disappointed at the missed opportunity. NVIDIA could have made bank had it launch an outrageous number of cards in waves. You would have bots purchasing crazy numbers of cards that they could likely only resell at less than MSRP, and you people that wanted the cards remarking about how great their new card is. Instead, you have a few people with a new card; tons of cards on eBay; lots of potential buyers that can't purchase; some potential buyers that will now purchase something else or save their money.

 

[USAFRet]

... some potential buyers that will now purchase something else or save their money.

Like what?
The 3XXX is currently top dog. There is no other 'else', until AMD spits out Navi.

 

[Metteec]

They may upgrade their processor; acquire an accessory; pay rent; get some dog treats; or take their mum out to dinner. People with money now are inclined to spend it now, under the anticipation of being able to acquire something in the future, and without regard of their actual capacity to get money in the future. Sure, these cards may be all over the place in January 2021, but those people with extra federal/state stimulus money might not have the financial capacity as they do now. That person was going to buy an RTX 3080 for $700+, but will now wait for the RTX 3070 or RTX 3060 to fit their new financial situation in a couple of months. I am talking about a loss in opportunity cost. A sale for $700 now is better than a potential sale in 4 months at $700 or less.

 

[Blacksad999]

They should put up a recaptcha on the payment page. Not the one you have to click, more like the one where you have to pick all the pictures with a stoplight, etc. That, or two form authentication, such as putting in a code received by text.
If I were them, I'd sign up with the company to figure out how their bot works, and then change the site accordingly to break it.

 

[Chung Leong]

Kids these days. When I was young, we worried about AI learning kung-fu and taking over the world. Now young people get all bent out of shape because some stupid bots got ahead of them in the shopping queue. They wouldn't last a millisecond in a fight with an Agent. Total softies.

 

[Executor Omega]

I have an idea. For situations like these that can be predicted to be exploited by bots, additional measures can be taken at no expense to the seller. A physical address is much harder to exploit than the current system we have now. To purchase a new graphics card on the day of its release, have the seller send you a code by mail, which is paid by you. The purpose of the code is to unlock access to purchase the graphics card. This code doesn’t guarantee that you will be able to buy the graphics card before it sells out, but it allows you to participate in a fairer competition. What is the incentive to do this? For me, the incentive is to reduce the amount of greed that can happen. For NVIDIA, I think the incentive is to receive better publicity when they make it harder for others to sabotage their prices and policies. Also, there will be more people using the graphics card and advertising their product.

 

[XxDarkMario20xX]

I know that they buy so many at an time but cant an store look into the order and cancel the extra orders and refund the bots if they purchase all of them at once. So glad my website only says you can only pre order one now!

 

[hotaru.hino]

My take on this problem is simply... don't announce a product launch date. This is what PAX does to combat scalping after considering other solutions: https://www.geekwire.com/2015/how-p...nd-why-your-crazy-idea-to-fix-them-wont-work/

Having a launch date gives scalpers time to figure out how to go about doing what they do. By not announcing a launch date, scalpers would likely have their bots constantly refresh the page. Sellers would have some incentive to do something about this because well, this can escalate to a denial of service and that would piss off everyone else. Outside of dealing with constant spamming traffic, there's nothing else the seller needs to do on the back-end. Although I found out Amazon has a way to add items into your cart via a URL. That has to go away as I don't see any legitimate reason for this to be a thing.

I don't see CAPTCHA or limiting purchases by some identifier because CAPTCHA only slows them down and there's easy ways to get around purchase limits.

Of course we could just say "NVIDIA should stop paper launching their products." But predicting the future is something we haven't been able to come up with. The only thing that NVIDIA needs to do from here on out is make sure supply eventually keeps up with demand. And of course, the consumer still has to do their part in not buying from scalpers. At least unlike ticketed events, the GPUs will be here to stay.

EDIT: There was one other thing I thought of that could work. You make your purchase online, but you have to go to a physical location to pick up the item. The location will also have to verify that you're the one picking it up via some method. While you could come up with a method to really limit how many people can buy the thing, I can't think of anything that's both personally identifying and unique enough to you that anyone would be willing to give to a random store. Imagine having to divulge a passport number, a driver's license number, or an SSN just to get a video card.

There's also the fact this means online stores without a physical presence are out of the running if you were to enforce this method. Basically, only Microcenter and Best Buy can do this. Maybe Walmart as well since they're sort of into the PC hardware scene. That's a lot more people you'll be making mad though than what happened.

 

[spongiemaster]

My take on this problem is simply... don't announce a product launch date. This is what PAX does to combat scalping after considering other solutions: https://www.geekwire.com/2015/how-p...nd-why-your-crazy-idea-to-fix-them-wont-work/

Having a launch date gives scalpers time to figure out how to go about doing what they do. By not announcing a launch date, scalpers would likely have their bots constantly refresh the page. Sellers would have some incentive to do something about this because well, this can escalate to a denial of service and that would piss off everyone else. Outside of dealing with constant spamming traffic, there's nothing else the seller needs to do on the back-end. Although I found out Amazon has a way to add items into your cart via a URL. That has to go away as I don't see any legitimate reason for this to be a thing.

I don't see CAPTCHA or limiting purchases by some identifier because CAPTCHA only slows them down and there's easy ways to get around purchase limits.

Of course we could just say "NVIDIA should stop paper launching their products." But predicting the future is something we haven't been able to come up with. The only thing that NVIDIA needs to do from here on out is make sure supply eventually keeps up with demand. And of course, the consumer still has to do their part in not buying from scalpers. At least unlike ticketed events, the GPUs will be here to stay.

EDIT: There was one other thing I thought of that could work. You make your purchase online, but you have to go to a physical location to pick up the item. The location will also have to verify that you're the one picking it up via some method. While you could come up with a method to really limit how many people can buy the thing, I can't think of anything that's both personally identifying and unique enough to you that anyone would be willing to give to a random store. Imagine having to divulge a passport number, a driver's license number, or an SSN just to get a video card.

There's also the fact this means online stores without a physical presence are out of the running if you were to enforce this method. Basically, only Microcenter and Best Buy can do this. Maybe Walmart as well since they're sort of into the PC hardware scene. That's a lot more people you'll be making mad though than what happened.

Online retailers could require the purchase be made from an existing account with that retailer that's at least 60 days old. No "guest" orders. BestBuy could limit day one orders to MyBestBuy rewards members. There are things that could have been done, but it looks like everyone got caught with their pants down on this one. It will be interesting to see what happens when the 3090 launches if the same debacle occurs even though it's a card that starts at $1500.

 

[USAFRet]

Online retailers could require the purchase be made from an existing account with that retailer that's at least 60 days old. No "guest" orders. BestBuy could limit day one orders to MyBestBuy rewards members. There are things that could have been done, but it looks like everyone got caught with their pants down on this one. It will be interesting to see what happens when the 3090 launches if the same debacle occurs even though it's a card that starts at $1500.

When would that 60 day requirement have been announced?
If "Launch - 1", people would bitch.
If "Launch - 61", then the bots would still have reigned.

There was such a huge buildup and demand...no matter how the sale was structured, it was going to sell out in seconds.

 

[spongiemaster]

There was such a huge buildup and demand...no matter how the sale was structured, it was going to sell out in seconds.

Sure, but you would have 42 people getting a card in seconds instead of one person getting 42 cards in seconds.

 

[andrewkelb]

I think this has been getting bad for awhile but it hasn't been as noticed until the release of the 3080. I tried to build a PC for months and its been hard to get a good mobo that wasn't being sold by a third party seller for twice the price. Sure covid is going to be an issue and not a lot can be done about that but there are things that can be done to stop the scalping.

 

[durahl]

There has got to be a way to counter these bots. I feel like the big stores make little to no effort to beat them, and the manufacturers don't care if middlemen artificially inflate prices.

One cannot even make use of the GeForce Experience System if they do not have an Account which, to me, is total BS anyways but if nVidia would make use of that to allow users of registered AND active nVidia cards to order "a card for a card" then this Account BS would actually serve a purpose.

Thus, if you want to replace your current nVidia Card you'd only have to register it with your account and let ( a different kind of ) GeForce Experience Installation check for it being currently active in your System to receive a priority code that can be redeemed to be placed in line of the priority order line which will be placed in front of all other orders coming from people without such a code.

As a scalper wanting to buy 30 cards, you'd have to own 30 pervious generation cards in working condition and attached to the system you'd want to buy them from to be qualified for purchase which is obviously not going to happen whereas for a normal user it would practically no issue at all.

 

[DrAJS]

The best solution for buyers now is to NOT pay $1500+ and just wait until there is enough supply -- in other words to punish the bot users by not buying at inflated prices.

A quick look at completed listings in ebay reveals that many people are still willing to pay well over the odds. Most 3080s have been going for about 900 quid but I'm not sure how likely the sellers of cards that have gone for more than £50k are to receive that much!

 

[hotaru.hino]

Online retailers could require the purchase be made from an existing account with that retailer that's at least 60 days old. No "guest" orders. BestBuy could limit day one orders to MyBestBuy rewards members. There are things that could have been done, but it looks like everyone got caught with their pants down on this one. It will be interesting to see what happens when the 3090 launches if the same debacle occurs even though it's a card that starts at $1500.

I don't think this would be any more effective. Plus you'd just upset people who like to use guest accounts who wanted to buy one for actual use.

One cannot even make use of the GeForce Experience System if they do not have an Account which, to me, is total BS anyways but if nVidia would make use of that to allow users of registered AND active nVidia cards to order "a card for a card" then this Account BS would actually serve a purpose.

Thus, if you want to replace your current nVidia Card you'd only have to register it with your account and let ( a different kind of ) GeForce Experience Installation check for it being currently active in your System to receive a priority code that can be redeemed to be placed in line of the priority order line which will be placed in front of all other orders coming from people without such a code.

As a scalper wanting to buy 30 cards, you'd have to own 30 pervious generation cards in working condition and attached to the system you'd want to buy them from to be qualified for purchase which is obviously not going to happen whereas for a normal user it would practically no issue at all.

It'd also sucks for anyone who bought a used card, though that'd depend on if the card was registered. Plus if this system was announced, what's stopping them from buying a bunch of cheap cards to "prove" they were going to upgrade to something?

Ultimately in the end, I don't think there's a system that both stymies scalpers and offers a fair solution to anyone interested in buy a card. I see it as a similar problem to combating a DDOS attack.

 

[Homer J.]

Well there is always the trail of the money, most scalpers won´t go through and hide their money trail so ebay could always ban them for life on the manufactures call, but they won´t.

There is always the Jay and Silent Bob method of getting a big list and punching those a........ in the face.

 

[Homer J.]

How many cards will you pre produce? If it was Amd you mods would be far more forgiving we will see in 5 weeks. RTX 2080 was a sucker for Nvidia , AMD could not match or exceed it with Vega VII, RT 5700 (x) was a stop gap now Nvidia has delivered a Tyrannosaur of a card at an affordable level, Of course millions of customers are going to flock to it especially given the price hiatus that was caused by those crypto miners and Pascal/ Vega 56/64 that ruined prices for 2 years and more.

 

[gdmaclew]

This falls squarely in the hands of the people who buy from scalpers. Apparently it's "everyone for themselves" and nothing for anyone else.
I'm disgusted by these people who game the system.
I don't place any blame on NVidia or the retailers. They are not doing anything wrong.
The bots wouldn't have anything to buy if nobody bought what they are selling at inflated prices.
It's squarely on the heads of the greedy people who have nothing better to do than legitimize this practice.
It used to be that way in the entertainment industry until governments made it illegal.

 

[Endymio]

Laws need to be updated,

Why?

 

[Endymio]

This falls squarely in the hands of the people who buy from scalpers. Apparently it's "everyone for themselves"

What do you believe is wrong with that? Scalping can only occur when prices are set far too low in the first place. When demand outstrips supply, not everyone who wants the product will get it. So how do you allocate scarce products in the most efficient manner? Rather than systems based on artificial and arbitrary concepts of "fairness", history has shown us the most efficient manner is to allocate them to the people willing to pay the highest price. In this case-- those buying from said scalpers.

All the comments I've heard advocating otherwise appear as whining from people who believe their wants and desires should be accorded the status of a law of nature.

 

[floored63]

The quickest solution to this appears to be too lease/buy your own bot.

 

[USAFRet]

The quickest solution to this appears to be too lease/buy your own bot.

And that would simply mean that the actual owners/developers of the bot you lease will prioritize their buys over yours, and you still lose.

IMHO, the best solution is to not obsess over a toy product, and wait until it is more generally available.
(Yes, a brand new high end GPU is a "toy")

 

[floored63]

And that would simply mean that the actual owners/developers of the bot you lease will prioritize their buys over yours, and you still lose.

IMHO, the best solution is to not obsess over a toy product, and wait until it is more generally available.
(Yes, a brand new high end GPU is a "toy")

No offense but your definition of obsession seems a little bit off

 

[USAFRet]

No offense but your definition of obsession seems a little bit off

As noted..."IMHO"

 

[cryoburner]

While bots might have made it worse, I think it's pretty clear that Nvidia didn't have nearly enough stock to go around. It was widely rumored prior to launch that the cards were in extremely short supply, and that it would likely be extremely difficult to find one for months following their launch, so the fact that the extremely limited stock sold out in a matter of minutes (or seconds) should not be much of a surprise.

But make no mistake, this launch was NVIDIA's failure. As a stockholder, I am very disappointed at the missed opportunity. NVIDIA could have made bank had it launch an outrageous number of cards in waves. You would have bots purchasing crazy numbers of cards that they could likely only resell at less than MSRP, and you people that wanted the cards remarking about how great their new card is. Instead, you have a few people with a new card; tons of cards on eBay; lots of potential buyers that can't purchase; some potential buyers that will now purchase something else or save their money.

That would require Nvidia to actually have lots of cards on hand though, while it seems like this was more a paper launch with a small inventory to go around. If I had to guess, they might have been expecting AMD to be more competitive at the high-end this time around, and wanted to get their new generation of cards out first. After all, if AMD were to have launched a card that beats a 2080 Ti by a decent margin at a significantly lower price, that would make Nvidia's pricing look bad, which is likely why they rushed to do the same with their 30-series cards first, even if they didn't yet have adequate inventory available.