Question HP Omen 25L GT12-1335qd missing storage?

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cteno

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Mar 3, 2010
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Please forgive an odd question. This is not a joke or troll.

I am attempting to help recover needed data from a home PC for someone who's unable to do so. I have a fair amount of experience with office PCs, but never opened a gaming box. Sure is a lot of empty space in there - for cooling?

Instead of trying to boot the PC (OS unknown), I pulled the HDD and mounted it on an external USB adapter (Sabrent). We have the key to decrypt the drive. But - both WinExplorer and WizTree show it as nearly empty - 131MB used, 931 GB free. Nowhere near the amount of data this person must have had, and no OS or applications. No drive in the other SATA slot, and no little SSD apparent in the case.

Is this possible for a daily-use PC? We looked, but did not find, a network-attached drive of any kind. In any case, can a PC run with OS and applications on a remote drive? Is it possible that there's another, less-powerful PC somewhere we didn't look, and that this was used as a satellite just for gaming? I am not a gamer, so don't know how that application differs from office work.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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As far as the size, "mini-tower" is pretty much a standard PC case, used for many combinations of setups that might include 2.5 inch drives, 3.5 inch drives, and add-in video cards instead of just using integrated graphics, all at various price points. They just use the standard size case for everything because it saves money in manufacturing. Over the years, we've moved from HDDs to 2.5 inch SSDs to M.2 SSDs, and more capable integrated graphics, so more and more users don't need the space for a big HDD or video card, but there are those that still need the extra space, so the same "class" of computer just gets put into the old size case. Plus it leave space for upgrades. (And if you go for a smaller form factor which can't fit those extra components, they charge more because more design work is needed to arrange all the parts and ensure cooling is still effective.)

131GB isn't unusual for a lightly-used home PC, regardless of how large the drive is or how often it's used. Browsing the web and running Office apps, Spotify, a few other apps, doesn't use a lot of space. The capacity is just whatever HP thought was a good marketing point that would be profitable at that price point. There are people who run their systems with 128GB drives. Is it a mechanical 3.5 inch drive, or a SATA 2.5 inch drive? Is there an M.2 SSD mounted on the motherboard? (The serial number can be entered on HP's support site to get the original specs and components. https://support.hp.com/gb-en/product/product-specs/omen-25l-desktop-pc-gt12-1000i/model/2100778603)

You say no OS or applications. Do you mean there are no \Windows or \Program Files, ProgramData, Program Files (x86) folders? No \Users folder? If there aren't, then there is almost certainly another SSD installed (which the original specs can tell you) and this other drive you're looking at was just used for data. A lot of OEMs will put a small SSD into a system then include a huge mechanical (slow) hard drive in it so they can sell it as having large data storage capacity. Most users don't even understand how the storage is laid out in that situation, since Windows wants to store everything in the standard folders like Documents, Pictures, etc., and users aren't going to go looking around for stuff in a separate drive letter. (Though obviously this user did put some stuff there, and this model was possibly configure-to-order meaning they may have requested it be that way.)

It's extremely unlikely for a home user, but it IS possible for somebody to be using their computer just as a "terminal" and running their real machine remotely. There are many options, but Microsoft itself offers Windows 365 which is a cloud-based virtual PC, but that doesn't just magically get set up and start working by itself. They would have to have subscribed to the service. But using THIS PC as the remote machine (so someone elsewhere could access it from a less powerful machine) takes more effort and setup and for gaming wouldn't actually perform very well without some expensive additional software in order to use the GPU capabilities.

I think the most likely case is that there is just an M.2 drive on the motherboard that you didn't notice. There may be a heatspreader covering it up, mounted just above the video card slot or to the right.
 
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evermorex76 said:
131GB isn't unusual for a lightly-used home PC, regardless of how large the drive is or how often it's used. ... Is there an M.2 SSD mounted on the motherboard? (The serial number can be entered on HP's support site to get the original specs and components. https://support.hp.com/gb-en/product/product-specs/omen-25l-desktop-pc-gt12-1000i/model/2100778603)

You say no OS or applications. Do you mean there are no \Windows or \Program Files, ProgramData, Program Files (x86) folders?
Click to expand...


I haven't used this site in a while - hope I get the "reply" formatting right. Per prior reply, it's 131 MB, not GB - about one app's-worth, and no OS. I did look pretty carefully through the folder trees (WizTree is great for that, to a low-level user like me), and saw nothing I could recognize as relevant user data.

evermorex76 said:
No \Users folder? If there aren't, then there is almost certainly another SSD installed (which the original specs can tell you) and this other drive you're looking at was just used for data. A lot of OEMs will put a small SSD into a system then include a huge mechanical (slow) hard drive in it so they can sell it as having large data storage capacity. Most users don't even understand how the storage is laid out in that situation, since Windows wants to store everything in the standard folders like Documents, Pictures, etc., and users aren't going to go looking around for stuff in a separate drive letter. (Though obviously this user did put some stuff there, and this model was possibly configure-to-order meaning they may have requested it be that way.)
Click to expand...

I believe you may on target in the above statements. I looked pretty carefully for even a small SSD - what is the smallest physical size that it could be?

evermorex76 said:
... But using THIS PC as the remote machine (so someone elsewhere could access it from a less powerful machine) takes more effort and setup and for gaming wouldn't actually perform very well without some expensive additional software in order to use the GPU capabilities.

I think the most likely case is that there is just an M.2 drive on the motherboard that you didn't notice. There may be a heatspreader covering it up, mounted just above the video card slot or to the right.
Click to expand...

I saw a couple of places something less than about 1" x 2" might hide, but didn't want to start unscrewing things. If I know that an M.2 SSD could be that tiny, I'll look closer. Or maybe just try to boot the thing up, and see if that works? Don't have a password, if needed - but if it even lights up, I guess that means there must be an OS onboard someplace. Is that correct?

I did enter the SN in HP's site - and thanks for the suggestion, in case I hadn't! It doesn't list installed memory, just slots. I remember the owner saying that it had been "built" for him by a friend, so that fits.

Thanks forall the good advice so far. I'll dig in again tomorrow and report back if there's any good result.
 
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I misread the space used, too. We see what we expect when reading quickly. It's almost certain that there is a low-capacity M.2 SSD installed, and they threw a cheap 1TB drive in there for the usual marketing "ooh look big numbers" and it's never actually been used. That 128MB is probably just the default files that the OS sticks on it and maybe something an app or two did without the user knowing.

HP wouldn't have sold a machine without actual memory in it. You may be only looking at the base specs that cover every machine, rather than the specs for that specific one. There is no way someone "built" an HP machine for someone else, other than customizing it during an order, which would have included RAM, although they could have ordered the most minimal system possible and added additional components after receiving it (in which case, why bother ordering an OEM system).

Yes, M.2 drives are about the size of a RAM module and look similar. You can find pictures online. But it may be covered by a heatspreader on that model so you might not actually see the SSD until you remove that. They're secured by a tiny screw and then spring upward to about a 45 degree angle where you can pull it out. But if you don't have another PC with an open M.2 slot, or a USB enclosure for NVMe M.2 drives, you won't be able to remove it to recover files on another computer. Just lighting up doesn't mean a PC has an OS, only that the hardware worked. If you don't see an OS logo come up on the screen, then either there's no OS or it's corrupted/damaged. You could put an OS onto a flash drive, like a live Linux distribution, and boot from that, and plug in the drive you took out in order to copy files from the main drive to that.

It IS still possible as @USAFRet said that you do have the OS drive and it's corrupted and that's why nothing is there, but I would expect that to result in the partition being completely inaccessible if that was the case. I don't think there can be a mismatch between the enclosure and the drive, though, otherwise it would just not show anything.

Are you trying to recover data because the computer died or wouldn't boot? Is it just an OS issue?
 
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We just needed some data, which apparently isn't there anyway - must be up in the cloud someplace! Or perhaps on a missing external drive.

Back to the hardware question: since the 3.5" HDD in the one occupied SATA bay is essentially empty, Stuck it back in and tried powering up the machine. Booted right up, no problem logging in. There's an SSD in there someplace, for sure - loaded up with media and stuff but not we need. Oh, well.

Here are photos above and below the motherboard:
https://imgur.com/a/Ra9004y
View: https://imgur.com/a/Ra9004y
Doesn't matter now, but out of curiosity, can anyone spot the SSD? Perhaps, per comments above, hidden under something?

Thanks again for guidance here.
 
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cteno said:
Doesn't matter now, but out of curiosity, can anyone spot the SSD? Perhaps, per comments above, hidden under something?
Click to expand...
Possibly under the heatsink looking thing, circled in red.
bF0OLXz.png
 
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Much appreciated, rgd1101. Helpful document. Wonder why it didn't turn up when I searched the HP site for this model?

I had entered the model and SN, and got back some build info, including that it's Intel-powered. The motherboard here doesn't exactly match images document you provided, but is close enough that I think I found the SSD. It's almost completely covered by the Geforce module, but no need to reach it now that I can extract data via USB.

Thanks again!
 
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There may or may not be one under the video card. There is possibly a slot for an SSD to the right just above what the Wi-Fi adapter card, but it's probably empty. The object circled by @USAFRet is an SSD encased in a third-party heatsink like this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PS9S2DZ

OEMs don't use that style, they use the type that covers the slot completely and is usually flat (a heatspreader more than a heatsink). That's why it doesn't show up on the HP site when you searched, because it wasn't purchased with that machine. Someone upgraded this machine. You can see the M.2 screw right at the edge of the CPU heatsink on the right side of the SSD heatsink, and the curve on the end of the heatsink to accommodate the screw/screwdriver.

After a GREAT deal of searching I FINALLY found a motherboard that is at least close to this system, but for a GT11. (It looks identical, though.) The stickers on yours aren't clear enough in the second image to see the part numbers. So irritating when they use the same base model name for such a wide range of completely incompatible machines, and HP is one of the worst for making it hard to find the specs of a model. You can likely see the board model written between the SSD and the GPU, like this one is an OASIS OC (it doesn't specify the 886B model, though). This will at least provide a better idea of what it looks like without components installed.

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskt...EN-GT12-1179-Motherboard-diagram/td-p/8625907

The M.2 slot just below the CPU will be Gen4 connected directly to the CPU, while the other two are Gen3 connected to the chipset.

I thought the RAM might have been upgraded as well, but apparently HP does ship these things with HyperX RAM. But it does look like the RAM is installed in the wrong slots (and someone moved one of them, since the tab is unlocked). They should normally be in slots 1 and 3 (counting left to right). Although they probably work okay the way they are, in dual-channel, the stability/timing is intended to have them in the first slot within each channel and only use the second slot in each channel if more than 2 modules are used. Just FYI.
 
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