HP Surpasses Apple in PC Sales Thanks to iPad Shipment Dip

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blakbird24

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[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]ok, average person time.
what do they do?
look at a youtube clip
look at facebook
watch netflicks/other services
send an email
brows the internet

now no mater what any of you say, an ipad (and most tablets) can do this. to MOST people, a tablet is just a computer in a new form factor, and guess what...

THEY ARE RIGHT.[/citation]

OK...now you must include smartphones because according to the above definition, they are PCs. That creates an entirely new dynamic.

This is why the generally accepted definition of PC includes a physical keyboard and pointing device. Tablets don't fit this as a physical keyboard is not required to fully utilize them.

How may times do we have to go over this?
 

rantoc

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Canalys have Apple as client, no wonder they just happen to include pad and all sorts of wanna-be-computer gadgets from them into the numbers. It would seem with those numbers that the pad market have become either saturated or people are waiting for the win8 pads...
 

onanonanon

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As to what constitutes a PC and who is selling more of them at any one time, it's entirely down to the definitions laid down by the analyst.

Can't we all accept that you can pretty much make any point you like with statistics and just start ignoring the marketing pimps? I calculate a 64.8% probability that we can. Case closed. Next!
 

akopp21

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Wait Tom's, if the iPad is a PC then how is it that the iPad is killing off the PC market? I know I've seen plenty of articles on here that said so.
 

superfula

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[citation][nom]blakbird24[/nom]OK...now you must include smartphones because according to the above definition, they are PCs.[/citation]

You don't include smartphones as their primary function is different. A pc is a general-purpose computing device, which is exactly what a smartphone isn't and a tablet is.

[citation]This is why the generally accepted definition of PC includes a physical keyboard and pointing device.[/citation]

That's not a generally accepted definition anywhere. It's just your myopic view of what a pc needs to have, which is a terribly moronic argument to make.

[citation]Tablets don't fit this as a physical keyboard is not required to fully utilize them.How may times do we have to go over this?[/citation]

The conversation exists because you and others try so hard to keep tablets from being called a pc. Yet when asked for a reason to back up your viewpoint, you reply with "just because" or some other absurd comment about not having a physical keyboard.
 
[citation][nom]Marcus52[/nom]"PC" is not just for Windows. It was popularized by IBM, that's what they called their desktop computers first released in 1981. IBM established the open-source (could be built from parts made by anyone) form we use today for almost all home, and other, microcomputers. The term "personal computer" existed before IBM's PC, and before Windows existed.However, Apple has made a point of telling everyone in world-wide campaigns that their computers are NOT PCs, they are Macs, so, as pretty much everyone has said, they don't make PCs. Never mind that they are made exactly like PCs, except for the proprietary chips that prevent you from running OS X on anything but Apple products (unless you hack it).I'll tell you the truth here; I think Apple is paying some people in the media to hype their products and try to make them look more popular than they are. I think that some of the media types that got hooked on Macs when they were better suited for graphics related media are such fanboys they will lie to pump up their favorite product. I think the confusion about tablets being PCs is intentional, not just stupidity.I'll tell you this, too; it pisses me off, it makes me feel more anti-Apple than I already do, and more scornful of media types in general. They are willfully stupid people, and these days not only are they clueless, but they can't even spell, spell-check, or use a minimal level of grammar quality.Not all of them are willfully stupid (that means they choose to be stupid, for those not familiar with the phrase) of course, but almost all of them don't care, including the ones in Tomshardware. How do I know? Because they never call out the bad ones, that's how. They seem to have some kind of "code amongst thieves" for journalism.Modern journalists, especially those in television, are hand-in-hand with politicians responsible for the "dumbing down" effect on the world. They both intentionally report hazy and incorrect information to paint emotion-driven stories for sensationalist purposes. Politicians do it so you'll vote for the most popular, not the best, and journalists do it because they can, and because it's far easier than finding the real facts. "That's what sells". Bull.The average modern journalist is no better than the ones that wrote stories about cowboys and Indians in the 1800's. They are pulp-fiction writers that pass off their excrement as factual stories. Actually, they aren't even that close to most pulp-fiction writers, who do know how to spell.I'm sick of this crap. Can you tell?[/citation]

Okay then, my bad. Point was mainly that Apple's products generally aren't considered PCs.
 

Camikazi

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[citation][nom]superfula[/nom]You don't include smartphones as their primary function is different. A pc is a general-purpose computing device, which is exactly what a smartphone isn't and a tablet is.[/citation]
Actually a general purpose computing device is exactly what a smartphone is, smartphones have moved way past what old cell phones were they are now small tablets that can make calls. So if you want to add tablets to the numbers then you would need to add smartphones as well, since I really haven't found anything that a tablet can do that a smartphone can't. It's all or nothing, either you add tablets and smartphones or you don't count either, can't have it both ways when they are essentially the same device but in different sizes.
 
[citation][nom]superfula[/nom]You don't include smartphones as their primary function is different. A pc is a general-purpose computing device, which is exactly what a smartphone isn't and a tablet is.This is why the generally accepted definition of PC includes a physical keyboard and pointing device.That's not a generally accepted definition anywhere. It's just your myopic view of what a pc needs to have, which is a terribly moronic argument to make.Tablets don't fit this as a physical keyboard is not required to fully utilize them.How may times do we have to go over this?The conversation exists because you and others try so hard to keep tablets from being called a pc. Yet when asked for a reason to back up your viewpoint, you reply with "just because" or some other absurd comment about not having a physical keyboard.[/citation]

In that line of argument, a smart phone can still be used as a general computing device. I can type papers, make spread sheets, watch videos, play games, pretty much everything that the average person and then some. So technically, it can be a general computing device and it can then be called a PC if a PC is just a general computing device.
 

leon2006

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Big deal!

It's one data point in a trend line which still favors the tablets in general in the long run. More tablets will be sold than PCS. Thats what Agent Smith's line of "Inevitability"
 


Not really. You ignore the fact that although I CAN do things like what I said on my phone, that for the most part, they are far more convenient and less frustrating to do on a desktop or notebook. So while the phones and tablets seem to be able to be considered PCs, they are still not the optimal format for any serious computing. They are mainly just the preferred gadgets for fairly small tasks and/or doing something in times where you have little to no alternative.

The "money" is pretty much everywhere.
 

blakbird24

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[citation][nom]superfula[/nom]You don't include smartphones as their primary function is different. A pc is a general-purpose computing device, which is exactly what a smartphone isn't and a tablet is....The conversation exists because you and others try so hard to keep tablets from being called a pc. Yet when asked for a reason to back up your viewpoint, you reply with "just because" or some other absurd comment about not having a physical keyboard.[/citation]

Or you could try actually making an argument with some facts, like I did, instead of trying to insult the person that presented the argument. Again, facts:

-The DEFINITION of a PERSONAL COMPUTER (PC) includes a physical keyboard and pointing device.
-A modern smartphone can be used to do the same basic tasks that you listed as criteria for a device being designated a "PC".
 
[citation][nom]blakbird24[/nom]Or you could try actually making an argument with some facts, like I did, instead of trying to insult the person that presented the argument. Again, facts:-The DEFINITION of a PERSONAL COMPUTER (PC) includes a physical keyboard and pointing device.-A modern smartphone can be used to do the same basic tasks that you listed as criteria for a device being designated a "PC".[/citation]

My Android has a physical keyboard and the touch screen can be used as a "pointing device". So even with those criteria, it can be a PC.
 
[citation][nom]rohitbaran[/nom]iPad is a pc?[/citation]

Practically, it might count as a PC (we're still arguing that logic), but Apple doesn't allow their products to be considered PCs, so technically, nothing of Apple's (including the iPad) is a PC.
 

blakbird24

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]My Android has a physical keyboard and the touch screen can be used as a "pointing device". So even with those criteria, it can be a PC.[/citation]

YOU BOUGHT a physical keyboard for your android device. It wasn't made with one. You can buy a physical keyboard for an Xbox or PS too...they are not PC's.
 
[citation][nom]blakbird24[/nom]YOU BOUGHT a physical keyboard for your android device. It wasn't made with one. You can buy a physical keyboard for an Xbox or PS too...they are not PC's.[/citation]

My Android has a physical keyboard ATTACHED TO IT BECAUSE IT COMES WITH ONE. It's a sliding keyboard, but it is still a keyboard with keys that I can press that include the full 26 letter English alphabet, numbers, symbols, a few shortcut keys plus a backspace/delete key, shift, function, control, space bar, enter, and even arrow keys. The keyboard is a little under 2 inches wide and around 4 inches long.

It's a Samsung Transform Android with Android 2.2.2 and it also has some virtual keys on the screen such as the home, menu, go back/exit, and search keys.
 

alidan

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[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Then smart-phone sales should also be included in the study since we can use them to do the exact same thing we do on a tablet.[/citation]
true, but people were complaining mostly about tablets so i fouced on them.

[citation][nom]blakbird24[/nom]OK...now you must include smartphones because according to the above definition, they are PCs. That creates an entirely new dynamic.This is why the generally accepted definition of PC includes a physical keyboard and pointing device. Tablets don't fit this as a physical keyboard is not required to fully utilize them.How may times do we have to go over this?[/citation]

have you never seen a blue tooth keyboard? and pointing device... extend index finger now... want to be more technical... what about a computer that is command prompt, cant see many of them anymore, but no mouse at all, still a pc.
 
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]Apple and HP... both produce crap netbook sales drop because it was doomed to the curse of Atom[/citation]

Atom isn't THAT bad. The biggest problems with the Atom netbooks were always the sluggish storage and graphics.
 

rosen380

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"YOU BOUGHT a physical keyboard for your android device. It wasn't made with one. You can buy a physical keyboard for an Xbox or PS too...they are not PC's."

A desktop from Dell isn't made with a keyboard either. They are made completely separately and Dell will optionally include it in the shipping box for you. If Apple runs a promotion where if you buy an iPad they include a free Logitech bluetooth keyboard case, then it is suddenly a PC, because it came with it?

--
As far as Mac's not being PCs because Apples says they aren't-- if Ford comes out and says, "we don't make any cars, we only make hot air balloons", do we honor that even when it goes against the definition of a car?
 
[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]"YOU BOUGHT a physical keyboard for your android device. It wasn't made with one. You can buy a physical keyboard for an Xbox or PS too...they are not PC's."A desktop from Dell isn't made with a keyboard either. They are made completely separately and Dell will optionally include it in the shipping box for you. If Apple runs a promotion where if you buy an iPad they include a free Logitech bluetooth keyboard case, then it is suddenly a PC, because it came with it?--As far as Mac's not being PCs because Apples says they aren't-- if Ford comes out and says, "we don't make any cars, we only make hot air balloons", do we honor that even when it goes against the definition of a car?[/citation]

Good analogy.
 

scannall

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What's funny is that for as many PC's as HP sells they still don't make any money. Just looking at their web page explains a lot of it though. They really need to streamline their product line. That makes it far easier to get your supply chain under control.
 
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