Kittle and Draven35,
Yes, very important points concerning workstation support and careful attention to components that are certified for particular applications. It would be useful to know which software firms will not support their software on homebuilt
systems though of course there are those that require certified GPU's- such as Adobe, Desssault, and Autodesk.
Support is among the highest priorities in the firms that use workstations. I don't personally know any architectural, engineering, industrial design, or graphic design firm that use anything but proprietary systems certified for their applications. If you notice, I use an HP z420 and Dell Precision T5400 and do not suggest anyone should build a workstation that doesn't understand the careful research and risk involved in building a system that could affect software and hardware support. When I added RAM to the z420, it was ordered from HP using the z420 part number. I, as I think most firms do, consult the certification lists for both the systems and the applications used, for example, by Autodesk, Adobe, Dessault, and Microsoft whenever I make any changes. Here are a couple of examples of these lists- which I keep bookmarked in Firefox:
http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/us/en/mcad-new-products-1.html
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/syscert?siteID=123112&id=18844534&results=1&stype=graphic&product_group=12&release=2014&os=32768&manuf=all&opt=2
A lot of ISV certifications are for things like Java and network compatibility, but in the workstation world, much focus is on the graphics cards and drivers. I believe that Adobe will not support CS except on a workstation card.
As to the systems listed, these were proposed as demonstrations of the kind of higher performance and particularized component specification alternatives for both substantially less and the about the same cost as the HP Z1. They are, in other words, component listings to compare cost / performance, though of course, someone could build them if they accept the potential for support problems. I was recently at a wind tunnel, watching a test for a NASA project and the testing firm did have some special, non-proprietary Linux systems but as they had written the software themselves I think they weren't concerned about support. Every time I see someone building a workstation they understand the risks. I only see individual taking that risk with the assumption being that if they can understand it well enough to build it, they can fix it as well. As mentioned, I don't know of software makers that will deny support for non-certified
systems, but only those that might in the case of graphics cards. I briefly tried a GTX 285 in the T5400 (it had the same GPU and 512-bit bandwidth as a Quadro FX 5800) and though that was listed by Autodesk without recommendation or certification, they did diagnose the problems in AutoCad and Inventor 2011) - and I went back to the Quadro FX4800. Perhaps this situation regarding systems is different or has changed without my notice as I always use certified systems anyway.
Though these were slightly casual, the components listed are certified by the important applications makers, for example the Quadro K5000, which you will find certified by Autodesk, Adobe, Dessault, and Microsoft. As the prices for the components were retail, I believed that might reflect overall the possibility of a total near a selling cost that included certification and support as averaged over all the systems.
If the HP Z1 were listed in the same way as the concept systems, it might look something like this >
HP Z1
Intel Xeon E3 1280 v2 (3.6 / 4/0GHz) > $660
Proprietary motherboard > estimate $400
4 x Micron 18JSF51272AZ-1G6M1 > $150
Quadro K4000M > $1340
HP Z1 integrated, 27”, 2560x1440 > about $800
2X Micron C400 256 GB > $240
HP BD DRV BD-5841H5 > $138
Delta Electronics DPS-400AB-15A, 90% efficient, 400 W > $110
Windows 7 Professional x64 > $140
Case / Stand > estimate $600
___________________________________
TOTAL = $4,578
Although this includes some rough approximations and at retail so as to try and make a better comparison with the system concepts, I feel more strongly than previously that the Z1 and AIO configuration in general is not appropriate at the high end. The parts that have to conform to the format are much more expensive than the desktop counterparts, for example a Quadro K4000M (mobile) costs $1340 while the desktop K4000 is about $760- almost exactly half. The elegant Z1 case is likely to cost about double a good desktop case, and so on. With a four core, LGA1150, one open slot, only 500GB in the HD’s, 8GB RAM, and a 400W PSU, the Z1 looks worse and worse value. To not be able to select/change the monitor, upgrade to six or eight core CPU, and spend an extra $760 on the GPU alone so it fits a slim case to me still seems intensely disproportionate.
Compare an HP z420 with an E5-1650 v2 and Quadro K4000 >
http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;sid=UzRiF6zNYzJjF_-6CKKqg3XCgTpaZpQxi2g=?ProductUUID=PPAQ7EN5uiAAAAFECTEPB350&CatalogCategoryID=XkYQ7habYJkAAAFC.HEtkXzB
> which is $4,000 without a monitor. A z420 with six core, E5-1650 v2 (3.5 / 3.9GHz), 32GB RAM, Quadro K4000, 512GB SSD, 600W PSU, $800 professional monitor of choice, and ability to add more RAM and several TB's of HD’s, at around $5,000 still makes a lot more sense than the HP Z1- even if the Z1 were not
$1,600 more. Crazy.
I would be interested to see upgraded iMacs for $6,600 for educational use- and the name of institution buying them- as that is as insane an idea as the HP Z1. Here's a randomly chosen site>
http://www.macmall.com/n/iMac/macNavLinks-macNavLinks.224
> on which the most expensive iMac, having an i7, 32GB, and GTX 780M, and costs $3,250, and already far exceeds the minimum specifications for certified iMacs for Autodesk applications. There is by the way, no Mac certified for Maya, they are only on the "recommended" list.
Good discussion!
BambiBoom
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