Hubble Reveals 13.2B-Year-Old Picture of the Universe

[A Bad Day]

[citation][nom]Sakkura[/nom]That's no proof. It could be argued that God can indeed make someone more powerful than himself, and is continuously doing so to himself, thus making his power diverge to infinity.[/citation]

So, where did God come from? I recall stumping a few people with this question after they asked me what created the universe, and wouldn't take the Big Bang Theory as an answer (or asked where did the particles from the super planet/star come from).

 

[adgjlsfhk]

A Bad Day, one answer to this question is the creation of a black hole. When an object approaches the event horizon of a black hole, it's mass increases and time slows down. At the event horizon, it's mass is infinite, and time has stopped.
Done.
Also, Sakkua, good point. Another question. Can God create an object that He can't move?

 

[nonoitall]

Another question. Can God create an object that He can't move?

Is a Being existing outside the bounds of the physical universe to be constrained by its laws? Namely those of mass and force that dictate who can move what?

So, where did God come from?

Again, is a Being existing outside the bounds of the physical universe to be constrained by its laws? Namely those of space-time and the notion that all things must have a beginning?

 

[hrhuffnpuff]

I am still waiting for aliens to show up in Gillette, Wyoming. Damn you Spielberg!

 

[beayn]

[citation][nom]nonoitall[/nom]Is a Being existing outside the bounds of the physical universe to be constrained by its laws? Namely those of mass and force that dictate who can move what?Again, is a Being existing outside the bounds of the physical universe to be constrained by its laws? Namely those of space-time and the notion that all things must have a beginning?[/citation]How do you know he exists outside the bounds of the physical universe? Because he created it? If that's your answer, then you just answered the main question creationists ask about the Big Bang - where did the particles come from that were all in one spot at the big bang and what existed before the big bang? Well... they first existed outside bounds of the physical universe, and then the explosion and inflation of the universe created the physical laws by which they are now bound.

hahaha these arguments are so silly.

 

[ben850]

I wonder how many beings are masturbating in this photograph.

 

[eternalkp]

we can't even make a stupid 3D map of the earth and you want me to believe that scientists are able to guesstimate the universe age? RIIggghttt

 

[yobobjm]

This is one of those things where you think, this is almost too epic to be real.

 

[bigdog44]

To the poster who stated in the distant future we wont be able to see what the picture shows, by that time we wouldn't be able to see anything else because of our planet would have already enveloped by the sun or our galaxy would be evaporating too (by common logic...). By the way the 1st and 3rd dimensions are not time-like... What are the points of argument regarding god? God is in the urge of existence, the to be or not to be. I think sometimes we get confused because we think the laws of science are eternal facts when they are actually evolving just like us. We think infinity is an impossibly large number when in fact it is the number 1. 1 is the whole that includes everything and 0 is nothing...

 

[becherovka]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]You should know better than to argue with a man of faith. They don't need facts. Believing in spite of facts is consider a badge of honor, and is highly praised..[/citation]
I found this out when I argued with a icultist. Its funny that in the bible the apple was the forbidden fruit and today it represents true evil.
let the apple basing continue

 

[frabber]

[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]How do you know he exists outside the bounds of the physical universe? Because he created it? If that's your answer, then you just answered the main question creationists ask about the Big Bang - where did the particles come from that were all in one spot at the big bang and what existed before the big bang? Well... they first existed outside bounds of the physical universe, and then the explosion and inflation of the universe created the physical laws by which they are now bound.hahaha these arguments are so silly.[/citation]

God is a spiritual being where matter is not of prime interest, it's just used to implement our reality. There could be many universes and big bangs going on if he so wished. He engineered everything, matter, planets , love , hate , feelings. He gave us life and freedom, unlike the angels (like satan) who are bound by other laws. It's up to us how we put it to use. We should work together to replace Peace for War and eliminate famine. Given that he is the creature that existed always it's no wonder he gave life to beings to learn to know him. But the main thing is we should learn to worship only him , instead of anything else. You worship something else if you spend more time thinking about it than God, or value it more. There is no escaping this truth whichever way you would prefer. I am sorry if you don't like this reality but this is how it is. It can be discomforting to learn that our reality is of secondary interest.

 

[SirTrollsALot]

[citation][nom]ben850[/nom]I wonder how many beings are masturbating in this photograph.[/citation]
>Billions...

 

[doive1231]

In the Bible in Genesis, it says, "Let there be light and there was." This is clearly the Big Bang as before that there was nothing. And it says, "From dust we came and to dust we will return." We are all made from stardust as the elements such as carbon were created when stars died. This was only realised in the 1960s from spectography so, as the Bible was written thousands of year ago, it's massively perceptive and a strong hint that God exists and is pretty amazing.

 

[tanjali]

I don’t believe in Big f.ing Bang its stupid theory main clique of scientists forcing us with.
It doesn’t hold logic in micro levels, atoms and smaller particles.
Their main excuse is universe is expanding and because of that must be some Big Bang pushing all that shit out. I say no, universe is more circling, and that hold sense in micro levels. They think it’s expanding because of our perspective of watching at it, small beings down the hill trying to figure out big picture.
We still don’t have top of the hill techs so our perception is limited and we should look more inwards to understand universe. After we conquest intergalactic space we will have better picture of what’s happening.

 

[demonhorde665]

[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]So, where did God come from? I recall stumping a few people with this question after they asked me what created the universe, and wouldn't take the Big Bang Theory as an answer (or asked where did the particles from the super planet/star come from).[/citation]

stumping is hardly a useful term is such a debate. first off you avhe to totally disprove the other side's argument for them to be stumped. Most religous people will argue that god just exsisted and has always existed. it's a circular argument that neither side can really win because sicence has yet to disprove god's existance which is HOW scentific method works , you first state a hypothesis and then make every effort to disprove said hypthysis when the hypothesis can't be disproved it becomes theory , meaning it is yet to be disproved but still not etched in stone fact. disproving rather or not god exist , or some higher plane beyond life (after life) exist , is impossible to to do , though it can be equally considered impossible to prove , it is also equally impossible to disprove. therefore the argument will never end. personally as some one on both sides of the fence, i like to think god started the big bang. so yes maybe i'm a believer in the intelligent design theories. I think god exist in all things, just because we come up with science ( AND IT IS A MAN MADE STUDY) does not suddenly make god non exsistant, science is just a method to study all the various things that god made. perhaps science replaces the bible to a point in this way. but replacing a man mad book with something else that is man made, does not magically make faith or some ones believe in a god invalid. just like believing in god doesn't invalidate the scentific method of study.

regardless of what you beleive or don';t believe, it is no call to get insulting and hostile with other people over whate they beleive or don't believe. such things are the cause of witch hunts and war.

 

[demonhorde665]

[citation][nom]tanjali[/nom]I don’t believe in Big f.ing Bang its stupid theory main clique of scientists forcing us with.It doesn’t hold logic in micro levels, atoms and smaller particles.Their main excuse is universe is expanding and because of that must be some Big Bang pushing all that shit out. I say no, universe is more circling, and that hold sense in micro levels. They think it’s expanding because of our perspective of watching at it, small beings down the hill trying to figure out big picture.We still don’t have top of the hill techs so our perception is limited and we should look more inwards to understand universe. After we conquest intergalactic space we will have better picture of what’s happening.[/citation]


this i agree with , the big bang theory totally hinges on gravity being universally eliptical -circular through out the universe. and to me that doens't hold water given there are over ten types of galactic formations that we know about . our galaxy happens to be in a spiral , it has a core that attacks all the smaller objects to it in an circular - eliptical revolution. it makes sense we would apply that system to the universal scale, likely many other civilizations across our galaxy have also come to this conclusion. eliptical solar systems form when a sun collapses and then explodes again. Our galaxy likely formed in the same way. and that is how the big bang thoery also works , you got a big bang , every thing spreads out then falls back in on it's self. but i think this is fallacy because other galaxies don't work like ours , thier are "cloud galaxies where the stars inside them appear to just drift around the cloud at random , then there are irrregular eplitical solar systems that look evern wierder in motion than our own. and as i stated there are about 8 other galactic formation types we know of (i can't remember) . just seems odd we got all these examples of where galaxies DON'T work like our's does yet we apply the gravity and physical laws of our galaxy onto the whole universe .. seems a bit arrogant and presumptious to me.

 

[adgjlsfhk]

demonhorde665, The big bang theory is just a reversal of the theory that predicted black holes. This theory states that any large enough body of matter compressed into a small enough volume must turn into a black hole. This is simply a combination of gravity and the limitations of the theorem that states that particles in the same space must have different velocities. These velocities differences, however, can not be greater than the speed of light, so if you have enough gravitational attraction, gravity will overpower the difference in velocities, causing the particles to create a black hole. If you reverse time in this equation, you end up with the conclusion that any expanding amount of matter within a certain volume must have come from a black hole.

 

[JBB-SaDo]

Remember lex parsimoniae... That is one long concoction to make the Big Bang fit into the Bible; a book of written prove that we are all the result of massive family incest; or where did Adam's sons find 'brides' ?

Now back to our regular iPhone bashing

So you Can laugh if you want....I had to look up lex parsimoniae. but here is what I found.

"Occam's razor
a principle named after William of Occam, a 14th century philosopher. The generalization states that, if there are a number of explanations for observed phenomena, the *simplest explanation is preferred*. Called also scientific parsimony."

So your saying that elevation is the simplest(easiest) one to believe?

I was going to post some links about the big bang and such: But I figured, you probably already read those.

Really on the finale note. It all come down to belief. Some believe that the earth was created from a big bang.(if you have proof I would love to read about it.)

Some believe: that it does not matter how we got here.

Some believe in a 6 day creation.

And yeah wierd as it sounds now a days. I believe we did come from "Family Incest".
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife

*note* I am sure there are a few other groups of things people believe in..........;P

 

[beayn]

[citation][nom]frabber[/nom]God is a spiritual being where matter is not of prime interest, it's just used to implement our reality. There could be many universes and big bangs going on if he so wished. He engineered everything, matter, planets , love , hate , feelings. He gave us life and freedom, unlike the angels (like satan) who are bound by other laws. It's up to us how we put it to use. We should work together to replace Peace for War and eliminate famine. Given that he is the creature that existed always it's no wonder he gave life to beings to learn to know him. But the main thing is we should learn to worship only him , instead of anything else. You worship something else if you spend more time thinking about it than God, or value it more. There is no escaping this truth whichever way you would prefer. I am sorry if you don't like this reality but this is how it is. It can be discomforting to learn that our reality is of secondary interest.[/citation]Because the bible says so right?

Unfortunately for you, the only truth is that you have been misled by men who wanted to control people. The bible was written by man (oh please, don't even say inspired) as A) a way to explain the unknown or b) a fairy tale just like lord of the rings. Gullible people actually believed it, spreading quickly and became an opportunity for control. Men who desire power modified the writings and used it to control the people. That is the truth you can not escape.

Every time science makes a new discovery the bible thumpers try to justify and make up excuses for why it was not written in the bible. It started with the concepts of the earth being flat and at the center of the universe. The stars were some sort of veil around the earth and the sky held water above it. Volcanoes and earthquakes were god being angry etc.. the list goes on. All of these things now have scientific explanations and the bible thumpers have adopted and accepted them. Eventually everything in the bible will be fully refuted by science and people like you will still claim the bible is correct.

 

[tanjali]

First of it doesn’t take much to understand that bible is corrupt with some half-truths and pursuing some agendas of people or entities trying to control minds. Also there is some interesting stuff in it for very smart people that know how to read in between lines (wish I was one of them) and extracting some useful info out of it. I am all for pursuing scientific understanding of not just Bible but all so called holy documents from around the world to illuminate the truth. But don’t forget science is also not so "holy", corruption is all over it, especially "mainstream" science. They have their reasons, too bad for wasted brains.

 

[bystander]

God is man's attempt to explain how the universe became to exist from nothing, as we can't comprehend the idea something being created from nothing or always existing. For some reason, it makes more sense to some people that God can exist from nothing, or always have existed.

 

[frabber]

[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]Because the bible says so right?Unfortunately for you, the only truth is that you have been misled by men who wanted to control people. The bible was written by man (oh please, don't even say inspired) as A) a way to explain the unknown or b) a fairy tale just like lord of the rings. Gullible people actually believed it, spreading quickly and became an opportunity for control. Men who desire power modified the writings and used it to control the people. That is the truth you can not escape.Every time science makes a new discovery the bible thumpers try to justify and make up excuses for why it was not written in the bible. It started with the concepts of the earth being flat and at the center of the universe. The stars were some sort of veil around the earth and the sky held water above it. Volcanoes and earthquakes were god being angry etc.. the list goes on. All of these things now have scientific explanations and the bible thumpers have adopted and accepted them. Eventually everything in the bible will be fully refuted by science and people like you will still claim the bible is correct.[/citation]

Actually I am not holding on to any Quran/Bible/Tora whatsoever. I think there is too much blood shed in these religions for me to be atracted towards them. However I do think one of them holds the truth whether I like it or not. I see your point that God could have easily been a man made invention and kept in place to gain power over people. But for me that is the easy way out. Now I am just observing our existence and the reality we encounter and I do think everything is engineered. Science doesn't even come close to refuting religious concepts. Science itself is in a state of perpetual conflict. There is no single rule in science that holds true forever. Every theory seems to get refuted by other theories, so what's the point in believing these theories. They are just handy to build the tools we need today. I am surprised people value science so much while it's truth is so painstakingly low. I find the theory of God much more appealing. Not just by thinking in the large, who created the universe etc. But more so about thinking about our everyday reality and all the interaction we have with it and with each other.

 

[tanjali]

Bystander, that "nothing" you’re talking about is non-existent because there is always something. Proof is under microscope. Just because we don’t see it, energy, electrons or smaller particles still exist. There are the claims even in space between galaxies there is some invisible energy particles holding all galaxies in place, making super clusters that still make some precise geometrical form. Nazis called that Dark Energy and it is not new term, Tesla called it Radiant Energy, some called it black energy etc.
God is nothing but mix of energies that makes form, some religions explained it like, tetrahedron shape like energy, two-dimensionally looking, star of David and that form is the same in electrons, planets, stars, galaxies and super clusters. I don’t know for more than super clusters currently .The same energy is what makes living things live and that’s why they say god is everywhere.
Tetrahedron shaped energy is not just pure energy but intelligent one spreading universal goodness, well-being, if in harmony with neighboring energies. If not then it’s tilting like our earth, making seasons and earthquakes and other weather conditions, making earth energies out of equilibrium and dissipate. That’s why we have to kill animals or plants to nourish ourselves and not live from earth and sun energies alone, talking about Bibles, Garden of Eden. Also looking at center of our Galaxy it doesn’t look harmonious and precise geometrical form but then again that could be the current tech of our capturing equipments, making anomalies.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]tanjali[/nom]Bystander, that "nothing" you’re talking about is non-existent because there is always something. Proof is under microscope. Just because we don’t see it, energy, electrons or smaller particles still exist. There are the claims even in space between galaxies there is some invisible energy particles holding all galaxies in place, making super clusters that still make some precise geometrical form. Nazis called that Dark Energy and it is not new term, Tesla called it Radiant Energy, some called it black energy etc.God is nothing but mix of energies that makes form, some religions explained it like, tetrahedron shape like energy, two-dimensionally looking, star of David and that form is the same in electrons, planets, stars, galaxies and super clusters. I don’t know for more than super clusters currently .The same energy is what makes living things live and that’s why they say god is everywhere.Tetrahedron shaped energy is not just pure energy but intelligent one spreading universal goodness, well-being, if in harmony with neighboring energies. If not then it’s tilting like our earth, making seasons and earthquakes and other weather conditions, making earth energies out of equilibrium and dissipate. That’s why we have to kill animals or plants to nourish ourselves and not live from earth and sun energies alone, talking about Bibles, Garden of Eden. Also looking at center of our Galaxy it doesn’t look harmonious and precise geometrical form but then again that could be the current tech of our capturing equipments, making anomalies.[/citation]
I am not talking about space and how space isn't really empty. I understand that.

I'm talking about people having the need to explain existence. Whether is explain how something always existed, or explain how something existed when nothing existed before (even the existence of space). Both ideas go against what we've learned in life.

 

[beayn]

[citation][nom]frabber[/nom]Actually I am not holding on to any Quran/Bible/Tora whatsoever. I think there is too much blood shed in these religions for me to be atracted towards them. However I do think one of them holds the truth whether I like it or not. I see your point that God could have easily been a man made invention and kept in place to gain power over people. But for me that is the easy way out. Now I am just observing our existence and the reality we encounter and I do think everything is engineered. Science doesn't even come close to refuting religious concepts. Science itself is in a state of perpetual conflict. There is no single rule in science that holds true forever. Every theory seems to get refuted by other theories, so what's the point in believing these theories. They are just handy to build the tools we need today. I am surprised people value science so much while it's truth is so painstakingly low. I find the theory of God much more appealing. Not just by thinking in the large, who created the universe etc. But more so about thinking about our everyday reality and all the interaction we have with it and with each other.[/citation]That was exactly my point though. The theory of god-did-it is constantly evolving with science. For everything that we can't explain "god did it" and then once we explain it, "oh.. ok that's how it is, but God did this instead!" It's a never ending circle of desperately trying to explain the unknown.

Now, I'm not a believer, but the only theory I would give any merit to is that if a god created the universe, he has now moved on, or is indifferent to it and/or us. We have to find our own way now. I've been told I'm going to burn in hell for not believing far too many times to give the bible any credibility.