Question I need help figuring out why my system is slow ?

[TorQueMoD]

Hey all,
I've been having issues with my systems being slow for the past 16 months or so. I say systemS because I started with an Alienware Area 51 R5 from 2018, and I've since (in the past 12 months) replaced every component save for the PSU which I doubt is causing system lag, but maybe?

The reason I upgraded was because my programmer friend suggested it might be my PCIE lanes because I have multiple NVME drives in my system. I started with a GPU upgrade, then motherboard and CPU, then RAM. I've recentlyreplaced two of my 2TB NVME drives with one 4TB drive, so my total NVME drives are two 4TB now instead of 3.

Current hardware:

• MSI Z790-A Wifi Motherboard (4x m.2 slots) https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-A-WIFI/Specification
• Zotac RTX 4070ti GPU
• Intel i5 13600k CPU
• 64GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4 RAM (4 16GB dimms)
• 2x Crucial P3 Plus 4TB PCIe Gen4 3D NAND NVMe M.2 SSD
• 2TB Segate HDD
• 8TB Seagate HDD
• 2TB Crucial SSD

I just finished a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro 22H2 yesterday (3rd time since I started experiencing the slowdowns).

When I say slowdowns, it's mostly when running Unreal Engine 5, 3D Studio Max, or Streaming video. Everything was smooth as butter before, but now in Unreal I get constant frame drops where I'll have 120 fps, and then it suddenly drops down to 22 fps for a few seconds, regardless of the scene. in 3ds max, I get constant stuttering while scrolling in the UI.

As for Streaming, YT is mostly okay, but sometimes I get lag spikes where the video freezes, and with Netflix, Amazon, and Disney Plus, my monitors cut out to black, and then come back maybe 3 seconds later when I first load the site. Netflix stutters constantly while scrolling vids, but the other two don't. I haven't noticed any slowdown in games, but I haven't been playing much in the way of modern AAA games lately so that's likely why.

I'm thinking the issue is either still the PCIE lanes, or the GPU I bought. As I said though, the first few months after buying the GPU were great (before I upgraded any other hardware), and when I play Dead By Daylight, everything runs fine.

CPUZ Screenshot at link:

https://imgur.com/M0knIFR

View: https://i.imgur.com/M0knIFR.png

 

[Lutfij]

You forgot to mention the make and model of the PSU in your build.

64GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4 RAM (4 16GB dimms)
Can you please pass on a link to the ram kit? An image of the PCB revisions for the sticks of ram would help us two fold.

I just finished a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro 22H2 yesterday (3rd time since I started experiencing the slowdowns).
Where did you source the installer for the OS? Did you install the OS in offline mode?

I'm thinking the issue is either still the PCIE lanes, or the GPU I bought. As I said though, the first few months after buying the GPU were great (before I upgraded any other hardware), and when I play Dead By Daylight, everything runs fine.
It can't be lanes since I don't see any mention of lanes being shared on the motherboard's manual.

 

[TorQueMoD]

You forgot to mention the make and model of the PSU in your build.

64GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4 RAM (4 16GB dimms)
Can you please pass on a link to the ram kit? An image of the PCB revisions for the sticks of ram would help us two fold.

I just finished a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro 22H2 yesterday (3rd time since I started experiencing the slowdowns).
Where did you source the installer for the OS? Did you install the OS in offline mode?

I'm thinking the issue is either still the PCIE lanes, or the GPU I bought. As I said though, the first few months after buying the GPU were great (before I upgraded any other hardware), and when I play Dead By Daylight, everything runs fine.
It can't be lanes since I don't see any mention of lanes being shared on the motherboard's manual.

It's just the PSU that came with my Alienware, so I guess it's a Dell. No idea about the model. I could open it up and look tomorrow, but it worked fine for 5 years in my Alienware. I think it's an 800 Watt, but I might be wrong. I can check tomorrow if you think it's necessary.

The ram I bought 2 weeks ago and at Bestbuy, so I don't think it would be the issue since I've been experiencing similar problems for more than a year. I bought two kits of this one though: https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/produc...hz-desktop-memory-cmw32gx4m2e3200c16/15300646

OS is from the Media Creation Tool so from MS. Did not install the OS in offline.
You say it can't be lanes, but I'm a little confused about the lanes... my GPU will take 16 and my OS NVME will take another 4 apparently. That's 20 right there which is the CPU limit. The other one doesn't typically run in tandem so maybe it's not an issue. I know the motherboard has more lanes on the chipset as well, that's why I bought it, but aren't they bottlenecked on their way to the CPU anyway? Like if the CPU only has 20 lanes, wouldn't it not matter it the Mobo has more than 20?

 

[CountMike]

It's just the PSU that came with my Alienware, so I guess it's a Dell. No idea about the model. I could open it up and look tomorrow, but it worked fine for 5 years in my Alienware. I think it's an 800 Watt, but I might be wrong. I can check tomorrow if you think it's necessary.

The ram I bought 2 weeks ago and at Bestbuy, so I don't think it would be the issue since I've been experiencing similar problems for more than a year. I bought two kits of this one though: https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/produc...hz-desktop-memory-cmw32gx4m2e3200c16/15300646

OS is from the Media Creation Tool so from MS. Did not install the OS in offline.
You say it can't be lanes, but I'm a little confused about the lanes... my GPU will take 16 and my OS NVME will take another 4 apparently. That's 20 right there which is the CPU limit. The other one doesn't typically run in tandem so maybe it's not an issue. I know the motherboard has more lanes on the chipset as well, that's why I bought it, but aren't they bottlenecked on their way to the CPU anyway? Like if the CPU only has 20 lanes, wouldn't it not matter it the Mobo has more than 20?

PCIe lanes from CPU and from chipset are in no way connected and wouldn't bottleneck each other. There are no GPUs with over 16PCIe lanes and no NVME SSDs with over 4. CPU actually has 24 PCIe lanes but 4 are dedicated to I/O and chipset operation.

 

[Misgar]

I think the lack of PCIe lanes theory is a "red herring".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Sometimes a PCIe slot will be disabled if you add another M.2 drive, or a PCIe x16 slot might fall back to PCIe x8 working, but that shouldn't affect stability.

I've since (in the past 12 months) replaced every component save for the PSU

I'm starting to wonder if it might be the RTX 4070 because your video keeps stuttering or dissapears. Do you still have the old GPU. If so, remove the 4070 and fit the old graphics card (or any compatible GPU) and see if the system is more stable. It's easy to change RAM, or the CPU as a last resort. Take the system slowly back to its original components, to see if the fault goes away. If not it could be your software/OS or boot SSD.

It's just the PSU that came with my Alienware, so I guess it's a Dell.

It may not be true of the Alienware range, but many Dell office computers come with Dell's own proprietary power supplies, that do not conform the the "standard" ATX PSU used by most home PC builders.

If your Dell PSU does not come with a 24-way power lead for the motherboard, plus a 4 or 8-way ATX12V power lead that also plugs into the motherboard (to power the CPU) then you've got a non-standard proprietary Dell PSU. This can make changing the PSU more difficult.

it worked fine for 5 years in my Alienware

Low end PSUs come with 1, 2 or 3-year warranties. Mid-range PSUs come with a 5-year warranty. High end PSUs come with 10 or 12-year warranties. Check your Alienware's warranty. It probably doesn't cover any component after 5 years.

Although your PSU may continue to work for another 5 years, it could fail earlier. High end PSUs with 10-year warranties use better designs and better components, e,g 105°C capacitors instead of 85°C versions.

I think it's an 800 Watt

According to the Tech Reviewer article below, the recommended power supply for a mid-range system like yours is 750W (their actual max power consumption figure is 588W). Add another 20W for your hard disks and you should still be OK with an 800W PSU, provided it's a good quality Gold unit.

Most of the time your computer will draw considerably less power, e,g 100W when idle.

Power Supply for RTX 4070 Ti GPU and Mid-Tier Components​

Mid-Tier Components	Peak Power Consumption
RTX 4070 Ti GPU	285 watts
Mid-Tier CPU (e.g., Intel Core i5 13600K)	181 watts
Motherboard	80 watts
2 M.2 or 2.5" SSDs	18 watts
2 Case Fans (120 mm)	12 watts
2 CPU Fans (120 mm)	12 watts
Total Estimate:	588 watts
Recommended Power Supply Wattage:	750 watts

https://www.techreviewer.com/best-tech/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-gpu-power-supply/

 

[Eximo]

Dell/Alienware typically uses Greatwall which is a decent PSU manufacturer.

If they have put in a retail motherboard, then the PSU conforms to the ATX standard. Still Dell tends to do bare minimum viability for a lot of its setups, so the upgraded components may still be over stressing the PSU.

 

[geofelt]

You have mismatched ram.
Your ram is running at the minimum default speed.
You may have to add voltage to the ram to get speed or stability.

Run memtest86+
It boots from a usb stick and does not use windows.
You can download it here:

Memtest86+ | The Open-Source Memory Testing Tool

Memtest86+ is an advanced, free, open-source, stand-alone memory tester for 32- and 64-bit computers (UEFI & BIOS supported)

memtest.org

If you can run a full pass with NO errors, your ram should be ok.

Running several more passes will sometimes uncover an issue, but it takes more time.
Probably not worth it unless you really suspect a ram issue.

 

[TorQueMoD]

You have mismatched ram.
Your ram is running at the minimum default speed.
You may have to add voltage to the ram to get speed or stability.

Run memtest86+
It boots from a usb stick and does not use windows.
You can download it here:

Memtest86+ | The Open-Source Memory Testing Tool

Memtest86+ is an advanced, free, open-source, stand-alone memory tester for 32- and 64-bit computers (UEFI & BIOS supported)

memtest.org

If you can run a full pass with NO errors, your ram should be ok.

Running several more passes will sometimes uncover an issue, but it takes more time.
Probably not worth it unless you really suspect a ram issue.

How can I have mismatched RAM when I bought two kits of the same RAM? I think maybe you're misunderstanding and thinking I'm still running the Alienware ram. The only component left over from the Alienware is my PSU at this point. I will run the diagnostic though, thank you for the link

 

[TorQueMoD]

I think the lack of PCIe lanes theory is a "red herring".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Sometimes a PCIe slot will be disabled if you add another M.2 drive, or a PCIe x16 slot might fall back to PCIe x8 working, but that shouldn't affect stability.


I'm starting to wonder if it might be the RTX 4070 because your video keeps stuttering or dissapears. Do you still have the old GPU. If so, remove the 4070 and fit the old graphics card (or any compatible GPU) and see if the system is more stable. It's easy to change RAM, or the CPU as a last resort. Take the system slowly back to its original components, to see if the fault goes away. If not it could be your software/OS or boot SSD.

So I opened the case, and there's nothing I can see on the PSU that would let me know what the wattage or manufacturer is, so I'm guessing the label is underneath or on the side that is covered by the Case's separator. I can't be bothered to pull it out right now. If it comes down to it I will, but I'd rather go through other options first. I can't recall exactly, but I remember when I saw the PSU and the Mobo, I was impressed that they weren't cheap crap knowing that Dell bought Alienware.

If the system were underpowered, would it result in frame drops like this?
I have definitely been leaning towards thinking the issue is the GPU since it's right around 1 year old at this point. Sadly, I do not have the old one because I installed it in a friend's system. I do have a really old GPU - A GT-710 that I could plug in if it came down to it.
Aside from running something like Furmark or a benchmarking suite like the Unigine ones, do you guys know of a way to test the stability of a GPU? The part that confuses me is I don't seem to be having any frame rate issues when running Dead By Daylight, so that makes me think it might not be the GPU? Either that or DBD just isn't taxing enough to cause problems.

I might be wrong about the timeline of these components now that I think about it. Maybe it hasn't been happening for more than a year because I swear my GPU is less than 1 year old. Either way, it's been bugging me for a while, and I would have assumed if it was a software issue, re-installing Windows would have fixed that. Hmmm...

 

[TorQueMoD]

I looked through my receipts. Apparently, I upgraded the case, mobo, and CPU on Nov 7th, 2023, and my GPU was on May 12th, 2023. I feel like the issues started happening around 3 - 5 months after getting the GPU, so that would be around August - October of last year which is likely why I was thinking the GPU wasn't a year old yet.

 

[geofelt]

How can I have mismatched RAM when I bought two kits of the same RAM? I think maybe you're misunderstanding and thinking I'm still running the Alienware ram. The only component left over from the Alienware is my PSU at this point. I will run the diagnostic though, thank you for the link

Ram is sold in kits for a reason.
A motherboard must manage all the ram using the same specs of voltage, cas and speed.
The internal workings are designed for the capacity of the kit.
Ram from the same vendor and part number can be made up of differing manufacturing components over time.

Some motherboards, can be very sensitive to this.
This is more difficult when more sticks are involved.
Ram must be matched for proper operation.

From your cpu-z link, the ram is operating at 1046.1 In dual mode, that is 2123 or essentially stock speed.
Not the faster speed written on the sticks.

That may not account for your problem, but a slower than necessary cpu is part of it.

 

[Misgar]

I feel like the issues started happening around 3 - 5 months after getting the GPU

By the sound of it, the system worked OK for 3 to 5 months with the new GPU. Did the issues start after installing an update for Unreal Engine 5? Windows Updates have been known to "break" things too.

Netflix stutters constantly while scrolling vids

Are you using the default driver installed by Windows for your Zotac RTX 4070ti GPU? Are you running any GPU Core or Memory overclocks using Overdrive?

I couldn't understand why my 3-year old laptop was stuttering when playing back 4K H.265 GoPro videos. When I checked the video driver I discovered the date was 2019. After downloading and insatlling the latest driver, 4K videos play back smoothly.

 

[TorQueMoD]

Ram is sold in kits for a reason.
A motherboard must manage all the ram using the same specs of voltage, cas and speed.
The internal workings are designed for the capacity of the kit.
Ram from the same vendor and part number can be made up of differing manufacturing components over time.

Some motherboards, can be very sensitive to this.
This is more difficult when more sticks are involved.
Ram must be matched for proper operation.

From your cpu-z link, the ram is operating at 1046.1 In dual mode, that is 2123 or essentially stock speed.
Not the faster speed written on the sticks.

That may not account for your problem, but a slower than necessary cpu is part of it.

Does that mean it's mismatched or I don't have XMP enabled?
I thought usually when you buy two identical kits they will have the same timings. Also, I made sure to pair them together. IE, the first kit I placed in every other slot should be paired that way.

https://imgur.com/a/vNVoddw

View: https://imgur.com/a/vNVoddw

 

[geofelt]

XMP is a set of settings embedded in the ram sticks themselves that will operate the sticks to the advertised performance for the capacity of the kit.
On an Intel motherboard invoking XMP draws out those settings.
A short hand way to get proper ram specs set.
A AMD motherboard has an equivalent system called EXPO.
It is entirely possible that two different ram kits would have different xmp specs embedded.
And the settings may be different if the ram capacity is doubled.
It can be made to work if you want to fiddle with the ram settings in the bios.
Usually a slightly higher ram voltage will do it.

 

[TorQueMoD]

By the sound of it, the system worked OK for 3 to 5 months with the new GPU. Did the issues start after installing an update for Unreal Engine 5? Windows Updates have been known to "break" things too.


Are you using the default driver installed by Windows for your Zotac RTX 4070ti GPU? Are you running any GPU Core or Memory overclocks using Overdrive?

I couldn't understand why my 3-year old laptop was stuttering when playing back 4K H.265 GoPro videos. When I checked the video driver I discovered the date was 2019. After downloading and insatlling the latest driver, 4K videos play back smoothly.

To be honest I can't remember when it started happening. I think it was around the time I bought 2 new monitors. I bought 2x LG 23.8 inch MR41A Monitors from Amazon. Well, I've re-installed windows 3 times already. I usually grab the latest driver from Nvidia. Currently running 551.86

 

[TorQueMoD]

XMP is a set of settings embedded in the ram sticks themselves that will operate the sticks to the advertised performance for the capacity of the kit.
On an Intel motherboard invoking XMP draws out those settings.
A short hand way to get proper ram specs set.
A AMD motherboard has an equivalent system called EXPO.
It is entirely possible that two different ram kits would have different xmp specs embedded.
And the settings may be different if the ram capacity is doubled.
It can be made to work if you want to fiddle with the ram settings in the bios.
Usually a slightly higher ram voltage will do it.

Ok, thanks! I'll look into it. Though I only bought the RAM about 3 weeks ago, so that pretty much eliminates them from being the cause.

 

[samermid]

Your storage drive and memory (RAM) are the two key pieces of hardware most related to the speed of your computer. A dated storage drive will slow down your performance, even when defragmented, while too little memory offers limited resources to run multiple programs.

 

[TorQueMoD]

Okay, so I'm really freaking confused about HOW this happened... I didn't think it was possible, but it seems that at some point during one of my re-installs, Windows was spanned across two drives!?

I only discovered this when I was looking into my app data folder and discovered that it was actually in my E drive and not my C:\. My only explanation is that when I first decided to nuke my system about a year ago, I had a lot of files on my C: drive that I wanted to keep, but I didn't have enough free HD space in any of my other drives to back it up. I bought another NVME and decided to move the previous drive into a secondary m.2 slot on my mobo, and put the new one into the main slot. I then installed Windows, but I hadn't formatted the previous Windows drive, so maybe something in the installation got messed up and it put part of Windows on my C: drive and part on the E: drive? Honestly, I'm so confused about how that could even happen. Regardless, I just pulled all of my drives out of my system leaving only the new NVME in, then I re-installed Windows and then restored a Macrium Reflect backup that I had previously made after reinstalling Windows and all of my software. So far it seems like the issues are fixed. Netflix isn't stuttering while scrolling anymore, and so far everything seems fully stable. I'll update if it starts happening again.

Has anyone ever heard of a Windows install getting botched like this before?