i5 4690 temps. Please help me bring this nightmare to an end

[Dave Thompson]

Hi,

Gonna try hard to keep this short and detailed.

All started when I installed an xfx r9 280x into my small atx case and noticed high core temps, but I still cannot get the cooling right so i can enjoy my games without constantly worrying about heat.

The card is so big, it almost splits my case into two compartments. I have 3 system fans: 1x 92mm blowing in at the front bottom (under the card and HDD), and a 92mm exhaust just under the PSU, and now I have installed a 120mm fan into the side panel (it had fittings for it). I have replaced the stock cooler with an Arctic alpine 11, When I had the side fan blowing in directly onto cpu cooler, the cpu was maybe 2 degrees less and card ran hotter by about 7 degrees, and when I had the side fan exhausting out, the opposite results occur (I have left it exhausting). It's been difficult to test the last few days as we have just had a cold snap and ambient temps have been about 17 degrees (today is the last of the winter weather and ambient temps will recover to about 20 in the next couple of days). I use gigabyte smartfan, and I have set up my own fan curve to get the CPU cooler running max when cores reach 75.

So i ran around in Novigrad city in the witcher 3 last night for about 40 minutes and the graphics were rendering rain storms and blowing trees, and my cores peaked at 73. Using MSI after-burner (great software btw), and I could see the max temps were not constant, and were hovering between 65-70, and occasionally peaking at 73. So, with such a cool room, I am assuming come the summer time when ambient temps reach about 25-26, the cores are going to hit 80, which is what I am desperately trying to avoid. I could just accept these temperatures and just ignore them, but when comparing to other setups. my temps do seem high.

I have an H81m DS2V mobo, and I have just 1 HDD and 1 DVD drive.

I will be around to answer any questions for the next 16 hours today.

Just to finish this post, I will now run intel burn test on standard (I think there are 10 tests for that), and the ambient is 16 degrees. I will run all system fans plus CPU fan on maximum so you know what speed they are. Although, these temps are going to be higher if the graphics card was under load, but it's idle at the moment as I am on integrated graphics while I sit at desk monitor.

Results:

Cores are 85, 86, 82, 81. package: 85
TMPIN2: 76 (which is what the gigabyte software reads as cpu temp).

So the temps come summer time are going to be scary right?

Thanks for any advice, and i would appreciate it as it's dong my head in now.

 

[cryoburner]

One thing you might experiment with is removing one or more of the PCI slot covers below the graphics card. If you have more fans blowing in than out to create positive air pressure, some of the warm air from the card will get exhausted through there. Or, with more fans blowing out, it would draw air in through there, but I don't think that would be as beneficial in this scenario.

It would also help to have better photos of what kind of fan openings and mounting holes are available in the front, since ideally you would want a larger fan there. One other possible modification I can think of would be to remove the covers from those three empty 5.25" bays in the front, and stick a 120mm fan in there. You could probably test it using the one you currently have on the side panel. You might need to find a creative way to attach it though, and you probably should also add some kind of a fan grill or other mesh to prevent fingers from getting inserted. : P

 

[SkyNetRising]

Ant get a decent cpu cooler - CM Hyper evo 212, Cryorig H5, H7 or similar.

I really don't think that cooler would fit would it? The case is only 7 inches deep.

All of them are less than 7" (177.8mm).
CM Hyper evo 212 - 159mm;
Cryorig H7 - 145mm;
Cryorig H5 - 160mm.

 

[Dave Thompson]

One thing you might experiment with is removing one or more of the PCI slot covers below the graphics card. If you have more fans blowing in than out to create positive air pressure, some of the warm air from the card will get exhausted through there. Or, with more fans blowing out, it would draw air in through there, but I don't think that would be as beneficial in this scenario.

It would also help to have better photos of what kind of fan openings and mounting holes are available in the front, since ideally you would want a larger fan there. One other possible modification I can think of would be to remove the covers from those three empty 5.25" bays in the front, and stick a 120mm fan in there. You could probably test it using the one you currently have on the side panel. You might need to find a creative way to attach it though, and you probably should also add some kind of a fan grill or other mesh to prevent fingers from getting inserted. : P

HI, Well, I have a front intake and a side intake. and a rear exhaust plus the PSU, So the air pressure should be balanced right now. I could remove one of the slots below the card, and it might help the card's air-feed as it's relying totally on the front intake at the moment. Regards having a larger fan at the front and removing the bays, that's gonna be real tricky, as it's riveted to the bay that holds the HDD, but I will have a look and see if I can put in an extra intake fan at the front, but higher - that would help the cpu a lot I think,

OR,,, I could leave as is based on the results below,

I did EXACTLY the same as last night playing witcher 3 for about 45 minutes, fans up and nice and high, but side fan as intake rather than exhaust, and the GPU increased to a peak of 73, and the CPU cores peaked to a reduced 70. Just as I had expected. The CPU is cooler by about 3 degrees, but the GPU up about 7 (I think). This freak ambient temp was perhaps 0.5 lower than it was last night. Does the ambient temp follow in line? So can I expect relative higher temps in line with higher ambient? If cores are peaking at 70 now, (lets say 72 for a few hours of gameplay), when the ambient temp is 8 degrees higher in the summer, that means my cores "perhaps" will stay under 80? I do realise that they can peak at 80 without freaking out about it, as long as it's not a constant 80.

Thanks again guys, It's great to have other minds on this apart from my single frazzled one! lol

 

[Dave Thompson]

Ant get a decent cpu cooler - CM Hyper evo 212, Cryorig H5, H7 or similar.

I really don't think that cooler would fit would it? The case is only 7 inches deep.

All of them are less than 7" (177.8mm).
CM Hyper evo 212 - 159mm;
Cryorig H7 - 145mm;
Cryorig H5 - 160mm.

7 inches is the total depth, so Im guessing it would have to be less than 5? Great, thanks alot for that though, and I will certainly consider them

 

[Dave Thompson]

Cryoburner, here is a pic of the front. I could somehow fit a fan on there couldn't I? Even with the front panel back on, it would still find air from the bottom and around the edges? What do you think?

https://imgur.com/a/JetmB

 

[Dave Thompson]

Can someone just confirm something that's been bugging me?
The maximum operating temp for these cpu's is supposed to be 72, right? That's the "T-case", which is the same sensor used by the motherboard software. I've been relying on HWMonitor too much, and the only temps it's get accurately are the core temps. T-case temps and system temps are often all over the place. When I did my witcher 3 test today, I had the gigabyte SIV software recording cpu and system temps, and the cpu temps peaked at 59, which is 13 under the T-case max. Add in a prolonged gaming sessions, and summer temps, I may still be under that figure. Am i getting that right? I get terribly confused when stress-testing software tells me I am well under the TJ max. If it only throttles at 100, what is the stated 72 figure all about?

 

[13thmonkey]

T-case and T-J are different, 70C reported is a perfectly acceptable figure, 80 would be a bit worrisome.

 

[Dave Thompson]

I just wish people would stick with one way of stating cpu temps: T-case or T-junction, and with my setup, there appears to be a 11 degree difference. If I am to keep below 72 T-case (as intel suggest), that will be 83 on the T-J/core.

 

[CompuTronix]

Dave Thompson,

"Tcase" is not Core temperature; it's IHS temperature. There is no "Tcase" thermal sensor.

Tcase is a factory only temperature measured on the external surface of the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS). Tcase isn't tested on retail processors, but for lab testing only, engineering samples are used.

The last Intel processors that had the old analog thermal sensor centered under the Die to "substitute" for a factory Tcase thermocouple sensor was the 45 nanometer 1st Generation Core i socket 1366 and previous Core 2 socket 775 processors. Regardless, this emulated "CPU" temperature could be grossly inaccurate because it relied on calibration tables coded into BIOS that were notoriously incorrect.

Tjunction or "Core" temperature is factory calibrated and is accurate to within + / - 5°C.

Hardly anyone ever looks at the "Stickies" at the top of each of our Forums. Here's one near the top of the CPU's Forum, which is the same Forum your Thread is in; you might want to give it a read: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

" ... From Core 2 processors in 2006 to today’s Core i processors, Tj Max has always been the limiting Thermal Specification; not Tcase. Although useful for developers of cooling solutions, Tcase is IHS temperature; not Core temperature. Since Core temperature is considerably higher than IHS temperature, which users can't measure, Tcase is an irrelevant specification.

Although most processors Throttle at 100°C (212°F), it’s not advisable to run your CPU near it's thermal limit, just as common sense tells you not to run a vehicle with the temperature gauge pegged in the red "hot" zone.

If your hottest Core is near it’s specified Tj Max Throttle temperature, then your CPU is already too hot. The consensus among well informed and highly experienced system builders, overclockers and reviewers, is that cooler is better for ultimate stability, performance and longevity. Experts all agree that it's prudent to observe a reasonable thermal margin below Tj Max. So regardless of environmental conditions, hardware configurations, workloads or any other variables, Core temperatures above 85°C aren't recommended.

Here's the operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures below 80°C are preferred.

Core temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature. ... "

CT

 

[cryoburner]

Regards having a larger fan at the front and removing the bays, that's gonna be real tricky, as it's riveted to the bay that holds the HDD, but I will have a look and see if I can put in an extra intake fan at the front, but higher - that would help the cpu a lot I think

Cryoburner, here is a pic of the front. I could somehow fit a fan on there couldn't I? Even with the front panel back on, it would still find air from the bottom and around the edges? What do you think?
https://imgur.com/a/JetmB

They really didn't leave a big opening for the front fan intake, did they. What I was saying was that a 120mm intake fan could likely be placed inside the optical drive bay, underneath the front of your optical drive, and could probably be connected to the bay's mounting holes using something like zip-ties on each corner of the fan. If the front panel of the case has little panels that can popped out to expose additional optical drives, those could be opened to allow a more direct path for air to enter the fan. It's kind of hard to tell from the picture whether there are any extra optical drive openings in the front panel though.

 

[Dave Thompson]

Hi guys,

This will make you groan, as it's a classic booboo. I was inspecting the cpu cooler again as it still vibrates, although not nearly as bad as the stock cooler, and noticed one of the pins was a bit loose. Now I know that I pressed down real hard on it, and assumed it was fastened down properly, but one of the pins did not click like the others. Noticing this pin was a little loose, I got a screwdriver, and nervously pressed down hard on the top left pin, and got a click! Sure I am not supposed to press that hard, but I am glad I did, as the temps seem to be under control now. Played some games last night while using MSI display, and I didn't notice the cores even make it to 70. This alpine 11 is quite hard to clip down, harder than the stock. I can say I am happy with the temps now, and have plenty of room for an increase in temps come the summer.

So with the cores jumping around from 50-65 while gaming, the cpu temp stated by the gigabyte software was between 40-55. THAT'S the T-case temp I am sure, and what I need to keep below 72, and it seems I will now.

Believe me, I did read the intel guide, but was confused by it seeing as I see a 11 degree difference, not 5. Whenever I see someone talking about their cpu temp, I am frustrated that they don't state which temp they are talking about. If they are relying on their mobo software, and people reading it are assuming it's the core, it will lead to conflict.

So I still believe when the t-case reaches 72, the cores will reach 83, which sounds about right.

The case I have appears to be a cheap one, but I think it will do for now. Not going to buy anymore fans for it, until I may notice a problem again in the future. Just one of the pins not being in place, can make all the difference!

A big thanks to all of you for your replies and advice. I really really appreciate it. I am so relieved about it now, and can finally stop stressing about it. Next time I see someone complaining about their temps, I'm gonna tell them to check and double-check the cooler is fastened down properly!

Oh, and with the side fan on intake, the GPU got to about 73, so that's going to be topping 80 in the summer, but I believe that's not an issue.

P.S. Seeing temps real-time was a great idea, as it enables you to see what the average is, instead of only seeing a max temp from HWMonitor and thinking that is what the CPU is reaching constantly. Loading a level or going into the game menu causes the temp to spike, but then settles again.

P.P.S Now I have the attention of some of you, I am still trying to solve the r9 280x mystery of the occasional blue background at boot that continues until the welcome screen. I can't say it causes any issues, only concern, so if any of you have ideas about that, I would be real interested to hear them. XFX very simply say its faulty, but refuse to tell any more than that.

 

[gdmaclew]

Good show! Well done.
An alternate temperature monitor that sits in your System Tray and gives you real time temps is Argus Monitor.

 

[chrysalis]

Whilst its not the best case in the world, you definitely have room in that case for a better cooler. I was expecting you to post a micro atx case or something, that is a tower. Yes things get tight with big coolers, but such is life.

 

[Dave Thompson]

Whilst its not the best case in the world, you definitely have room in that case for a better cooler. I was expecting you to post a micro atx case or something, that is a tower. Yes things get tight with big coolers, but such is life.

I thought it was on the small side considering the 280x reached beyond the HDD cutting off the air supply to the CPU. I must admit, I am not totally satisfied, and I have a second 120mm on the way and I will try to plug it in the gap at the front above the HDD (I posted a pic of that). It should be able to get air from the bottom vent, and I will prop open the DVD drawer flap which will allow a decent intake. I will then try side fan on exhaust again, so it will be sucking out the GPU heat, while this new fan will "hopefully" get some air to the CPU. I guess it's all about experimentation, as logic seems to go out with the window when it comes to air-flow. That will be 4 system fans! It will be a pile of vibrating metal when I am done!

Thanks for your advice about a better CPU cooler, but when I take off the side, the temps go down about 11 degrees, which I think is a significant amount. Currently, the side fan is blowing the hot GPU air onto the CPU.

God knows what I would do if I was living in a hot country! Would have to be open-plan PC I think.

 

[herrwizo]

A few years ago, I used to have a similar situation, and with a larger case than yours (Enermax Chakra), with 280x from Gigabyte (Windforce version ) and i5 4460. Lucky me that the case had a monster 250mm side fan, but blowing inside the case even with such large fan did not really help (just disturbs the air and mixes it) until the fan got switched to blow the air OUT of the case. What also helped tremendously was adding another 120mm fan in front of the case as a cold air intake (at the same level as the GPU), and removing a HDD cage in front of it to prevent airflow obstruction. The CPU had Arctic Freezer 13 on it. Without doing all that, there was no way to cool the card, at all. Within minutes, both GPU and CPU temps would skyrocket. 280x exhausts hot air from the side right into the side panel, and I swear you could dry your hair with it