I5 760 - Upgrade or sidegrade ?

[CedTo69]

Hi guys,

After reading a lot of helpful posts, I decided to ask for your knowledge and ideas. First of all, sorry for my english as I'm not a native speaker so there may be some mistakes here and there.

A bit of context, my PC is quite old to say the least. It's an I5 760 (OC to 3,5) with a SLI of GTX 760 2Gb (yeah, I know...), 16gb of RAM 1333Mhz (which could be the culprit here). The MOBO is a gigabyte P55 something (can't remember exactly) and a 500gb hybrid drive (faster than a classic HDD but slower than a SSD, a good compromise between storage/speed/price).

Here's the thing. I used to be a hardcore gamer in the past but I'm not anymore. However, I still play from time to time and when I do, I am sometimes annoyed by the little stutters or FPS drops that occur on a regular basis. Some habits are hard to kill 😉

My need ? To be able to play at 1080p 60fps on high settings. Nothing more. My monitor and TV are both 1080p 60fps and I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon. As I'm not a hardcore gamer anymore, I don't feel like spending €500 or more for a few games or a few FPS gain. However, with entry level RYZEN, I'm considering it (let's keep an open mind).

Right now, I'm only starting to feel limited by my setup so nothing urgent per se. I read a lot of articles, looked a bunch of benchmarks and feel like my setup could still hold a little bit more. My problem comes from the fact that my issues with stutters or FPS drops may come more from the SLI setup than the processor itself. In Witcher 3, with settings ranging from medium to high, I have between 55-60fps with drops around the 40s. Which is consistent with what I'm seeing in different youtube videos for that processor. However, when youtubers are having a 50fps perf, it is kind of smooth. While on my setup, even at 60fps, I feel like it's a little choppy all the time.

SLI scaling issues ? Could it be my RAM speed ? Just the processor ? The entire system ? I don't know... but there's a gap bewteen the smoothness people are getting online and the smoothness I'm getting at the same FPS rate. On the other hand, I also bought Ryse son of rome on sales on Steam recently and after finding the right SLI bits (after hours of tweaking), I finally have an almost constant 60fps on high but with some graphical glitches and I'm fed up with choosing either stability or nice graphics.

Here are a few scenarios I'm considering :

1. sell the SLI and buy a RX 580. So far, I sticked with Nvidia as a have a nvidia shield TV in my living room but the local gamestream is not ideal. Could be my modem, my processor or graphics cards but I'm noticing a loss of 15-20fps when streaming to the shield (over ethernet) compared to the actual performance I get when playing directly on the PC. As a first step, investing in a RX 580 sounds like a good idea and invest in a big ass HDMI cable and ditch gamestream when I want to play on the TV. My concern : is the RX 580 much better than a sli 760 ? I'd say yes but I'm not sure. However for the price, it seems awesome. If the performance is stil not good, well at least I could reuse the RX 580 in a new setup down the road. I'm also thinking of a GTX 1060... when the prices will go down a little. I already own a good PSU so no worries on that end.

2. Do a bigger sidegrade and combine the purchase of a new GPU with the purchase of a used I7 860 and OC it. From what I'm seeing from the benchmarks, the I7 860 seems to be quite good at keeping a lot of games over 60fps (which would guarantee an almost constant 60fps) without changing my entire setup and for a reasonable price.

3. Ditch the entire system and build a new one. It's not my priority as I don't have the need for it but if I have no other choice, so be it. In anycase, no more SLI as it's more of a pain than anything else. Sure, It helped my system holding a little bit more but the compatibility is never optimal and I spend more time tweaking things than playing. I'm planning on going back to the good ol' single GPU gaming.

So what do you guys think ? And, in case you would suggest building a new PC, which config would you recommend ?

Thanks in advance for your help and looking forward to hearing from all of you.

 

[tsnor]

Drop the CPU overclock and see how much the stutter changes.
-- Big change: focus on new CPU/MB/Memory.
-- Small or No Change: focus on new video card to replace SLI setup.

Ram speed is not the issue. That's a 1 or 2% effect.

 

[CedTo69]

Hi tsnor,

Thanks for your quick reply. I have already tried that to see if there would be a noticeable difference and from what I experienced, there is a change but it's marginal at best. In Diablo 3, which is the game I play the most (in the wait of the D2 remaster, fingers crossed) I see no difference at all : FPS is the same, stutter still happens from time to time, little drops in some crowded areas.

With The Witcher 3, I gained 5fps at best with the OC but the game feels the same : When I move the mouse, I can see it's not smooth at all.

In other games (Abzu, Little Nightmares, Astroneer, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter etc) I managed to get constant FPS throughout but I do feel the stutters regularly. I tried with 3 different settings :
No OC at all : 2.8Ghz
OC at 3.5Ghz
OC at 3.9Ghz

No real differences or not noticeable enough to call it a game changer.

 

[tsnor]

Hi tsnor,

Thanks for your quick reply. I have already tried that to see if there would be a noticeable difference and from what I experienced, there is a change but it's marginal at best. In Diablo 3, which is the game I play the most (in the wait of the D2 remaster, fingers crossed) I see no difference at all : FPS is the same, stutter still happens from time to time, little drops in some crowded areas.

With The Witcher 3, I gained 5fps at best with the OC but the game feels the same : When I move the mouse, I can see it's not smooth at all.

In other games (Abzu, Little Nightmares, Astroneer, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter etc) I managed to get constant FPS throughout but I do feel the stutters regularly. I tried with 3 different settings :
No OC at all : 2.8Ghz
OC at 3.5Ghz
OC at 3.9Ghz

No real differences or not noticeable enough to call it a game changer.

Then maybe you have enough CPU. Try the same approach with the GPU. Pull one of your two cards so you no longer have SLI. See what happens with the stutters and frame rates. If you are CPU limited you should not see a crash in frame rates. If you were balanced or GPU limited you should see lower frame rates, but potentially less stutter.

One other thing to try, goto youtube and look for games you play on I5 760 based rigs. Find one that has the video quality and frame rates you want then see what video card they are using with the I5 760. Like this one with a GTX 970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuaX9bxy-4c (note, do check how much OC is dialed in for the i5. The example I linked is not OC'd.)

 

[CedTo69]

Funny story, I did that test last week as I had a doubt regarding the performance of my SLI so I pulled out one card. The results I got, from memory, were the following :

Diablo 3 : run better with one card (less stutters) but the FPS count was the same - consistent with what I've seen on Youtube
Witcher 3 : quite huge FPS drop (from 55 with SLI to 35-40 with 1 GPU) - in terms of stutters, I noticed less freezes but it was still noticeable
Astroneer : Didn't see much of a difference but not sure if it actually supports SLI in the first place
Ryse son of Rome : With the right SLI bits I got an almost constant 60FPS. With one GPU I'm around 40FPS but no graphical glitch and less stutters (and no crash while SLI tend to Thermal Throttle)
ABZU : runs much better with 1 GPU (lots of stuttering with SLI)
The vanishing of ethan carter : mixed results : SLI has higher FPS count but I notice stutters every 2-3 seconds while with 1 GPU the game runs much slower making it difficult to notice the stutters)
What remains of Edith Finch : SLI gives better FPS overall but with huge dips and freezes. 1 GPU is more stable but once again, FPS count is also lower.

Other games were not affected as they are less demanding (Transistor, Owlboy, Inside, Limbo, Rayman Legends...)

 

[tsnor]

Funny story, I did that test last week as I had a doubt regarding the performance of my SLI so I pulled out one card. The results I got, from memory, were the following :

Diablo 3 : run better with one card (less stutters) but the FPS count was the same - consistent with what I've seen on Youtube
Witcher 3 : quite huge FPS drop (from 55 with SLI to 35-40 with 1 GPU) - in terms of stutters, I noticed less freezes but it was still noticeable
Astroneer : Didn't see much of a difference but not sure if it actually supports SLI in the first place
Ryse son of Rome : With the right SLI bits I got an almost constant 60FPS. With one GPU I'm around 40FPS but no graphical glitch and less stutters (and no crash while SLI tend to Thermal Throttle)
ABZU : runs much better with 1 GPU (lots of stuttering with SLI)
The vanishing of ethan carter : mixed results : SLI has higher FPS count but I notice stutters every 2-3 seconds while with 1 GPU the game runs much slower making it difficult to notice the stutters)
What remains of Edith Finch : SLI gives better FPS overall but with huge dips and freezes. 1 GPU is more stable but once again, FPS count is also lower.

Other games were not affected as they are less demanding (Transistor, Owlboy, Inside, Limbo, Rayman Legends...)

You provide excellent data, both the CPU test and the GPU test results are wonderful.

Given your goal.... "My need ? To be able to play at 1080p 60fps on high settings. " What do you think of a strategy of getting a single video card to replace the 760 SLI that will deliver the frame rates you want and running it with your current i5. If it turns out the i5 can't deliver the smoothness you want then you'll additionally need the CPU/MB/Memory upgrade. The two 760s still have value sold on ebay.

 

[CedTo69]

Hi tsnor,

First of all, thanks a lot for sticking here. It's much appreciated !

Yeah, changing the GPU was my first bet but I didn't actually look at it the way you made me look at it. Even with my own tests, I still wasn't sure what to do. Your help actually allowed me to put things in perspective and understand more clearly the results I was getting, so just for that, kudos !

Now, the main question is : Which GPU ? In order to be "logical' (if that's a thing when it comes to purchasing tech) I would say to get a mid-range GPU.

An entry level GPU would not be interesting compared to my current SLI setup and would be a waste of money in the long run. Buying a 1070 or 1080 would simply be plain stupid. Those cards would be overkill for my I5 and I don't have that cash to throw down the drain. The sweet spot would be to get either a RX 580 (or 480?) or a GTX 1060. Any other alternatives that I may be missing ? With these, I think I can pull the best out of my CPU and if I need to upgrade the CPU/MB/RAM down the road, I could still easily re-use them.

 

[mdd1963]

Going to be hard to get a single mid range GPU that won't feel like a lateral move, as a pair of GTX560's gave close to GTX780 performance, did they not? It'd be a shame to get a GTX1050, and have it feel 'the same'...

I'd think I'd stand pat, and start saving for either an i7-7700k or R5-1600 based rig....(The R5-1600 based rig is capable of 100-120 fps in most games, and is $100 less than the 7700k, however)
GPU? Vega 56 will be out shortly, and is rumored to give better than GTX1070 performance at a good price.... The GTX1060 (6 gb) does very well, but is not cheap in today's 'miner market'...

 

[CedTo69]

Thanks for your reply mdd1963 but I already removed the 1050 from my list of "upgrade". I never even considered it once actually 😉

The only card I would buy, at least for now, would be either a RX 580 (or 480 if still worth it) or a GTX 1060. Any other alternatives would be appreciated as well. All these would be more powerful than the SLI 760 that I currently own, would be more stable, less power hungry, less prone to thermal throttle and should allow to achieve what I'm looking for: 1080p, 60fps on high settings.

You are referring to the I7 7700k or R5-1600 and I actually know that those upgrade would be a huge improvement from what I already own. but that's not what I'm looking for. Why upgrade to reach 100-120fps when my monitors can only display 60fps? It would be overkill and a waste of money

 

[CedTo69]

A little update since last month ! I actually decided to buy something I had not even considered in the first place...

After selling my SLI gtx 760 for 130€, I looked for an alternative. Unfortunately, the prices of GPUs, were just unreasonable. Here's a list of used prices I found online :
GTX 970 : 220€ on average
GTX 980 : around 280€
GTX 1060 3G : around 260€
GTX 980ti : around 380€ (yes...)

So I found a Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC for just 180€... after looking at benchmark, it seems to be a perfect fit for me. And it is actually ! The performance I'm seeing is just night and day compared to my SLI or single GTX 760...

The Witcher 3 runs almost constantly at a solid 60fps with settings ranging from high to ultra (AA and HBAO+ enabled). No more stutters or huge drops. It's finally playable... on an I5 760 mind you... so my CPU was not the bottleneck here. Which is actually pretty weird considering the benchmark I've seen online for the W3 with the R9 290X were not that good (which made me doubt a little).

Astroneer is also stable at 60 fps, same with Doom which is actually well above 60 fps (on Open GL, I have an issue with Vulkan so far), Abzu is also finally stable. Diablo 3 remains the same, I guess it's more due to latency than anything else. Torchlight 2 is also more enjoyable despite some dips but apparently a lot of players are experiencing those. I re-discovered Firewatch with now a smooth framerate and better graphics.

So yeah, it is an old GPU but I'm completely happy with it. I could have gone with something more up-to-date but considering the price and my needs, it's exactly what I was looking for.

And thanks to Tsnor who actually put on the right tracks as I was going to update everything while in reality, it wasn't really necessary (it will be in the long run though). But thanks to his tests procedures, he helped identify the issue and it seems like he was right, the GPU was indeed the problem in my case. I will most likely move to Ryzen next year and have a decent upgrade.

 

[ohiou_grad_2006]

Those 290s can run warm but they are good cards. Be sure to keep an eye on temps.

 

[CedTo69]

Those 290s can run warm but they are good cards. Be sure to keep an eye on temps.

Yep, that's what I heard actually. Which made me doubt before purchasing it because you never know how the previous user used the card and with such an old chip, you can always wonder how long it will last. So far, my temps are pretty good. My SLI used to go beyond 80°C (around 83-84) in full load. The R9 290X is currently running between 70 to 75°C in full load. It's not that noisy either (well, compared to an SLI at least). If I wish to gain 4-5°C I could also change the thermal paste but so far, no need.

I thought about an OC as well but from what I've read, the Sapphire 290X Tri-X does not deliver much in terms of additional performance when OCed compared to the increase of heat and noise it generates on the side. So, I'll keep it at stock for now.

 

[mdd1963]

Thanks for your reply mdd1963 but I already removed the 1050 from my list of "upgrade". I never even considered it once actually 😉

The only card I would buy, at least for now, would be either a RX 580 (or 480 if still worth it) or a GTX 1060. Any other alternatives would be appreciated as well. All these would be more powerful than the SLI 760 that I currently own, would be more stable, less power hungry, less prone to thermal throttle and should allow to achieve what I'm looking for: 1080p, 60fps on high settings.

You are referring to the I7 7700k or R5-1600 and I actually know that those upgrade would be a huge improvement from what I already own. but that's not what I'm looking for. Why upgrade to reach 100-120fps when my monitors can only display 60fps? It would be overkill and a waste of money

It beats upgrading to a CPU that barely hits 60 fps now, then needs upgrading by springtime of next year when new games come out? (The R5-1600 is quite nicely priced, at only $209 on Amazon...; the 1500X is 4c/8t, but, only $30 less; I'd opt for 6 core int hat pricing scenario)

As for the GTX1060...love mine...!

 

[CedTo69]

Thanks for your reply mdd1963 but I already removed the 1050 from my list of "upgrade". I never even considered it once actually 😉

The only card I would buy, at least for now, would be either a RX 580 (or 480 if still worth it) or a GTX 1060. Any other alternatives would be appreciated as well. All these would be more powerful than the SLI 760 that I currently own, would be more stable, less power hungry, less prone to thermal throttle and should allow to achieve what I'm looking for: 1080p, 60fps on high settings.

You are referring to the I7 7700k or R5-1600 and I actually know that those upgrade would be a huge improvement from what I already own. but that's not what I'm looking for. Why upgrade to reach 100-120fps when my monitors can only display 60fps? It would be overkill and a waste of money

It beats upgrading to a CPU that barely hits 60 fps now, then needs upgrading by springtime of next year when new games come out? (The R5-1600 is quite nicely priced, at only $209 on Amazon...; the 1500X is 4c/8t, but, only $30 less; I'd opt for 6 core int hat pricing scenario)

As for the GTX1060...love mine...!

Thinking about the I7 860 was only a good idea if I could snatch one for a very low price but appart from that, I agree that moving forward to a new chip makes more sense. As I said as well, in the long run I will need to upgrade eventually and the Ryzen chips are on my radar .

The R5-1600 just dropped prices here but a couple weeks ago it was still at 241€ on amazon. If you add motherboard and new ram, it would have killed my initial budget... for a setup that I don't even need right now. I'm not a hardcore gamer anymore and don't play games "day one" so I probably won't care about new releases right away as I have plenty of games to beat in the meantime. By then, hopefully Ryzen gets more optimized, prices will drop slightly and GPU prices will be reasonable again.... hopefully !

the GTX 1060 was my primary choice but the prices were just...unreasonable. I'm not going to support that crazyness. But I'm pretty sure it's indeed an amazing card