I7 3770 Heat Tests in 85F Room Temps

josejones · May 20, 2012

Hello,

I have a special request. I've been waiting for the Ivy Bridge CPU's for quite some time now. What I didn't expect was the heat issue.

I have a small business that I run out of my apartment that does not have central air so, in the summer the room temps can get up to 85F (31C). Keep in mind that not everybody has air conditioning.

All of the tests I've seen have been performed in room temps of around 70F (21C) and with aftermarket CPU coolers or water coolers - that's a 15 degree difference in the air that is suppose to cool the CPU and flow throughout the case for me. I'd like to see testing of the i7 3770 (without the k) to confirm that it will not go passed 70c (158F) under full load on Intel's stock CPU cooler in 85f room temps. I cannot afford to risk this CPU dying on me due to heat exhaustion.

My budget is already tapped out so, I did not expect to have to purchase an aftermarket CPU cooler and certainly not a water cooler, which would still be trying to keep the CPU cool with 85f air. I'm certainly not the only one worried about this issue. I cannot afford to just assume there won't ever be a heat issue.

Would somebody at Tom's Hardware please test this out?

InvalidError · May 23, 2012

josejones :

In my Antec 300, I disconnected the 140mm top fan (mine was noisy and a 140mm exhaust generates so much airflow that it easily pulls dust in from every orifice) and taped the blowhole and side-panel holes shut.

I have two front fans to take advantage of air filters which I clean nearly every month and only the rear exhaust fan. All three are tri-speed models set to low. I'd say those are the three essential fans if you want to minimize dust intake.

This may not sound like much airflow but in a case setup for optimal front-to-back airflow, this is more than enough. With my C2D, the 212+ is managing to keep core temp at 55C with the CPU fan running at only 700RPM and 30C room temperature.

josejones · May 23, 2012

^ Thanks for that tip, InvalidError.

I may take your advice as well as Proximon's. We do have a fairly nice desk which includes a side cabinet for a mid-sized computer tower so, the dust isn't as bad but, still bad enough for me to have to clean it regularly. I may cover the top exhaust fan and turn it off to direct heat towards the rear - the cabinet is open in the rear for that purpose. I should probably cover the side opening (no fan included) too.

Perhaps I should go ahead and put in two front fans. It doesn't look like I can remove any bays in the Antec case for even better air flow, wish I could. I can't complain too much about that case for the price - everyone who has it seems to love it.

InvalidError · May 23, 2012

josejones :

I wouldn't worry about drive cages interfering with airflow since the air filters' tight mesh (if the 302's is as dense as the 300's) drastically reduce it. The front fans' role is to pull air through the filters, the rear/GPU/PSU exhaust fans' role is to get hot air out of critical areas. The exact airflow from front to back is not too important unless you are aiming for significant overclocks, just need to make sure there is a steady supply of fresh air coming in so hot air can be steadily shifted out.

hapkiman · May 25, 2012

Just FYI, I got my new rig yesterday and its pretty much been running non stop since. I haven't really stressed it too much (but I will), but I just wanted to see what kind of idle temps the i7 3770 ran at after hours and hours of running, while I updated everything and got all my software transferred over to it. I thought you might like to see how cool or hot its running.

I'm happy to say that its right on line with my i7 2600, in fact I see no difference at all.

Right now Speccy is showing 30c as the average. With all fours cores registering 30c/29c/35c/27c (I'm right in the middle of a huge download too). I can live with those temps (ambient is about 69F or ~21c right now give or take, so I know that's a lot cooler than you were wondering about).

Anyway, I feel pretty confident that its not going to be significantly warmer than the Sandy Bridge. Only when you start OC do you see extreme temps.

BTW- it does seem a little faster than the i7 2600. No- it's not a huge difference, but similar to what I felt going from my Phenom II x6 1090T to my i7 2600. It just feels a little zippier.

josejones · May 28, 2012

Oh good, thanks for posting, hapkiman. I'm curious what your temps will be under a full load or testing - whenever you get around to it. I don't foresee any issues down in that nice cool basement though. Are you using the stock Intel CPU cooler? That was part of my own question was if the Intel stock CPU cooler was good enough or, just get an aftermarket cooler and be done with it. Noise with the CPU cooler etc. was an issue for me in high indoor temps too.

What z77 mobo did you end up getting? Gamers are actually the minority - most people will never overclock.

I'm glad to hear that the difference between the 2600 and the Ivy 3770 are noticeable. I've heard it actually takes a fair amount of performance increase to actually be noticeable. If it's comparable to how you felt going from your Phenom II x6 1090T to your i7 2600 then, that's pretty significant, really - even if it's not quite as much of an increase going to the Ivy CPU. That's why I held out for Ivy Bridge.

My concern regarding 85 degree Fahrenheit indoor room temps (30 celsius) was a worst case scenario so, I think we'll be fine. Intel does say that these CPU's are capable of running in high temps too. I think with a new case like the Antec 302 with much better air flow, we'll be fine. If I really needed to, I could disable the turbo on the CPU through July/August if it was really necessary. I doubt it.

We'll probably get this new Ivy build at the end of June or at anytime in July. So, I'll know if heat is going to be an issue almost straight away.

josejones · Jun 1, 2012

I guess today is one of those days as I'm at 83 degrees Fahrenheit indoor room temps already and it's likely to get a bit hotter. I wonder if Intel will ever make any effort to improve upon their stock CPU cooler enough for it to possibly compete with Coolermasters 212+ and Evo?

InvalidError · Jun 1, 2012

josejones :

The stock HSFs are intended to fit in the smallest keep-out zone around the CPU specified for a given socket and essentially represents the smallest air-cooling solution that can meet the CPU's thermal profile when operating as intended at prescribed clocks and voltages. As such, it simply cannot have the monstrous size of tower-type solutions and does not need to be any larger or better-performing than it already is.

The stock HSF is not intended to be an enthusiast solution, it is only intended to be adequate for operation under stock spec-sheet conditions since that is all that is covered under the standard warranty that all Intel CPU s come with.

josejones · Jun 1, 2012

^ Seems logical enough.

So then, do you think the stock HSF from Intel would be enough to keep an i7 3770 cool in 85 degree Fahrenheit indoor room temps (30 celsius) in the summer months? It's already 85 in here right now. I won't be over-clocking but geeez, 85f indoor temps all summer long?

I'd like to keep it from going past say 69c for long life-span purposes - but, do you think that is even a real issue or am I just too concerned about it? I'd get the 212+ if it would really make a difference but, I don't want to waste any money if it makes no real significant difference.

InvalidError · Jun 1, 2012

josejones :

With adequate case ventilation to prevent heat buildup around the CPU, probably.

As far as lifespan is concerned, Ivy Bridge is specified for up to 105C core temperature so in principle, operating it at 90C continuous core temperature should still not significantly shorten its lifespan.

josejones · Jun 2, 2012

^ Well, I think that pretty much puts all of this to rest for me. I think what I'll do is first use the stock HSF from Intel and keep an eye on temps. If I need an aftermarket CPU cooler then I'll get one.

This new computer will be placed inside a mid-sized tower cabinet in a nice desk with a decent sized opening in the rear for exhaust so, I'll just cover the top fan and side opening to help the front to rear air flow.

Thanks for all the help

josejones · Jun 5, 2012

Here's a new z77 from Gigabyte: Gigabyte Z77X-UP7

Gigabyte's 32-Phase Power Motherboard: Z77X-UP7
http://vr-zone.com/articles/gigabyte-s-32-phase-power-motherboard-z77x-up7/16147.html

They didn't go into much detail on this new Gigabyte Z77X-UP7. I still don't know what the "P" stands for in the "UP7." They didn't even mention an availability date and there's no mention of the Gigabyte Z77X-UP7 at Gigabyte's website either:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/main.aspx?s=42

http://www.youtube.com/user/MoboTV2010

I'd like to hear more about the 32 phase control and Gigabyte's Ultra Durable 5 technology too, which Gigabyte claims:

"are able to deliver up to 60°C* cooler temperatures than traditional motherboards."

That's pretty significant, especially with the hot temps from the Ivy CPU's!

Proximon · Jun 5, 2012

When you add phases you are keeping the individual phases cooler, as they each work for less time in any given period. I doubt they would generate less total heat though. Probably a transistor in a 32-phase board is quite a bit cooler than a transistor in a 6-phase board... but the total heat output is similar. But I'm not an engineer.

Here's an explanation of voltage regulation:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-The-Motherboard-Voltage-Regulator-Circuit/616/1

josejones · Jun 7, 2012

Yeah, 32-phases might be a tad over-kill.

What are your thoughts on this new 6-phase Gigabyte Z77Z-UP5 TH - not just because of the two thunderbolt ports but, because of the alleged lower mobo temps, which they test in the video below (I'm considering it due to our 85F indoor temps). I await a serious review. These new boards are supposed to be available by the end of June:

Gigabyte's Hardcore Thunderbolt Demo with GA-Z77Z-UP5 TH Motherboard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deImUH8aUHQ

Gigabyte Ultra Durable 5 at Computex, shows much lower temperatures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLggGetNR14

http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-gigabyte-announces-thunderbolt-enabled-motherboards-computex-2012-updated-video

Gigabyte Ultra Durable 5
http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=1128

Proximon · Jun 7, 2012

I doubt this is an issue. The only time MB temps have actually caused problems was back when we had a northbridge. The northbridge is now defunct in all platforms as those functions have been moved into the CPU.

I'm familiar with these Gigabyte boards with the extra copper, they have been discussed for a while. What we are talking about is life extension of parts that will already become obsolete before they fail. If a board lasts 8 years or 12 should we care? History says no, but I could make an argument for it under the current economy and the general slowing of software advances.

New tech like Thunderbolt is always cool and sometimes works out. You just never know. Few have used Firewire despite availability for a very long time.

InvalidError · Jun 9, 2012

Proximon :

That mainly depends on how much worse the RDS-on on the larger number of MOSFETs is compared to the fewer phase ones.

If you go from 6 to 12 phases with same-RDSon MOSFETs, each phase passes 50% as much current which reduces I2R losses in each MOSFET by 75%, which makes the 12-phase design twice as efficient: 25% as much loss x twice as many transistors = 50% as much loss as the 6-phase design not counting ancillary power such as gate drives and timing generators.

With each MOSFET possibly being half as hot, there may be some small gains from lower RDSon at lower TJ as well.

Again, this really depends on how much worse the 12-phase design's MOSFETs are compared to the 6-phase one.

Proximon · Jun 9, 2012

I think I see. Surely though there would be a point when adding phases would reduce power efficiency, even if there was less loss to heat.

InvalidError · Jun 9, 2012

Proximon :

It is all a matter of whether or not RDSon losses shrink faster than ancillary power to manage/drive the extra MOSFETs grows. This is assuming the MOSFETs in the bigger multi-phase setup are good enough to achieve any power savings, which they might not if the motherboard manufacturer added phases simply to make meeting the MOSFETs' SOA easier rather than efficiency or stability.

Since more phases (within reason) open up a few optimization opportunities, I would hope most manufacturers are paying at least some attention to power-efficiency and opting to shave a few watts rather than shave pennies on each MOSFET and inductor.

Proximon :

Don't get temperature and heat mixed up. If you lower efficiency, you will inevitably have more total heat to deal with even though individual components may not get as hot due to heat (power waste) being spread across more devices. Conversely, you could have a very efficient device get very hot simply because it is difficult to cool.

Efficiency, power, heat and temperature are all closely related but their exact relationship is highly context-sensitive.

Proximon · Jun 9, 2012

Thanks for all this InvalidError. We shouldn't derail this topic further but I've learned a bit.

josejones · Jun 10, 2012

Due to a bit more information like the quotes below I've decided not to waste any time with Intel's stock HSF:

The plastic frame and pins from Intel's stock HSF deform over time and lose their clamping force. Everyone I know who has ever used one of Intel's push-pin HSFs has run into this problem (core temperatures shooting up and not coming back down for very long after changing the thermal paste and re-seating the stock HSF) around three years after their initial build.

Only fix in those cases is to upgrade to aftermarket cooling. The 212 + or EVO is an easy choice to make if it fits on your motherboard and in your case.

The i3/5/7 HSF is practically the same design as the Core2 HSF except for the addition of a copper core in the heatsink.

Most coolers with backplates use springs or spring-steel clips which do not suffer from thermal deformation unless you either over-bend them or heat them up to their shape-setting temperature which is typically in excess of 400C. Neither of which is likely to happen unless there is something even worse to worry about as the root cause.

The intel stock HSF have always been terrible. I just don't understand why they won't change their locking design to something more reliable.

Intel should just stop including the stock HSF and reduce CPU prices by about $20 or upgrade the damn thing by replacing the plastic frame with something stronger so that it doesn't deform over time and loosen up causing potential over-heating issues such as explained in this thread - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/337344-28-hits-shuts-down-cores-minutes

InvalidError · Jun 10, 2012

josejones :

Well, Intel has to keep selling CPUs and the stock HSF lasts just about as long as the warranty which I suppose might help the unwary customer decide to upgrade due to performance degradation (thermal throttling) or other such more regularly.

I almost fell to that "trick" myself after I noticed my CPU was hitting 85C instead of the 65C I was used to seeing. I started suspecting what must have happened when I decided to try re-installing the HSF and did not feel as much resistance as I was expecting while pushing the frame down before setting pins. That is when I decided to go get a 212+ (well, anything screw-mounted, the local computer shop just happened to have the 212+ as their cheapest unit in-stock that met that requirement) to confirm that my CPU was otherwise fine.

Proximon · Jun 10, 2012

I've almost never seen a new Intel stock heatsink installed right by a novice. There's always at least one pin not fully locked in. I'm a member of the same club that your quotes come from

Deforming might explain some other issues I have seen. Maybe it's just not designed to be used more than once also.

josejones · Jun 25, 2012

Here's a new CPU cooler design:

Sandia Develops Amazingly Efficient CPU Cooler

"Researchers at Sandia National Laboratories claim to have developed, by today's standards, an insanely efficient CPU cooler fan. The "Sandia Cooler" features curved fins and achieves 30x improvement in heat transfer over a commercial Dynatron G950 cooler that served as comparison.....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cpu-cooler-sandia-heatsink-fan,16100.html

https://share.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/cooler/

Overview of the Sandia Cooler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpV_VPUn8g

Sandia Cooler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWQZNXEKkaU

Proximon · Jun 26, 2012

Yes, saw that. It's not really something that will make your CPU cooler, it just cools with less size and effort.

captain kayos · Sep 13, 2012

Hi all. I think that everybody is getting a little paranoid here. The stock cooler will work just fine at least for the period of the warranty and you void your warranty if you use an after market one. But if you are going to overclock, you need a good after-market cooler and overclocking will void your warranty anyway.

I've just built an IB i7 3770K with stock cooler and the temperatures are fine 29C-40C (no overclocking) and CPU fan speed of around 1400-1500 RPM. The cooler seemed to clamp better to the board than the earlier core2duo, which tended to warp the mobo because it was so tight. That said, even the stock cooler on the core2duo is still working fine after a few years.

If you're not going to overclock, I'd just use the stock cooler at least for the time being. You can set an alarm point in your mobo BIOS to warn when the temp gets a bit high if you're really concerned, but even if the cooler fails completely the CPU temp sensor will automatically shut down the CPU to prevent damage anyway. Either way, none of the IB CPUs run anywhere nearly as hot as the old Pentium 4s, which used to easily hit 80C+...

Cheers, Captain Kayos

I7 3770 Heat Tests in 85F Room Temps

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