Question i9 12900 KF High CPU temp at full load ?

[sharpknel]

Images for Reference : Temp info from 3 Softwares

My config:

Tower Air Cooler : Be Quiet Deep Rock Pro 4.

CPU: Core i9-12900 KF

GPU : RTX 3080 Ti.

Mobo : MSI Pro Z690-P

RAM - 32 GB

My usecase for the PC : CGI, rendering, Unreal Engine 5 etc and occasional gaming.

I bought this PC in April,22. However I noticed that it normally remains at ~40°c in idle, but while in full load goes to 99°c. The fan runs at 100% yet the temperature shows to be at 99°c for CPU Package.

In HWiNFO64 I have noticed the following.

Full Load

in DTS , the Core Temp doesn't go to 99°c. It remains ~90°c , and Core Distance to TjMAX remains also ~10°c.

But the CPU Package goes to 99°c even 100°c. It shows Thermal thorttling for some cores, not all. But my PC runs sufficiently smooth even under this condition. I have not noticed any performance drop in that.

My question is. Are these temp safe at all? I have been continuously using this PC since purchasing it in April,22. I have not seen any performance drop. Just worried a bit, that I might fry these things in the process.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

include CPU,
case make & model and it's location(cabinet, floor, desktop, etc)
your complete system fan setup,
ambient temp in the room,
and fan control software being used(BIOS, MSI control software, 3rd party, etc).

plus PSU make & model,
current BIOS version,
GPU make & model,
drives installed in the case.

Images for Reference

link here with option to be viewed in the thread.

 

[sharpknel]

https://imgur.com/a/X72bwzl

My CPU is i9 12900 KF .
cabinet : be quiet Dark Base Pro 900 Rev 2
cabinet's location is at the floor, near a wall corner. but it has around 1.5 ft distance from the walls.
system fan setup : one rear fan, 2 front fans (120mm), these are not controlled by mobo.
ambient temp of the room : ~26c
fan is controlled from BIOS itself.

PSU : Corsair RMX series RM850x 80 Plus Gold.
current BIOS version : A.00
GPU : KFA2 RTX 3080 Ti.

2 Drives are installed in the system, 1 TB samsung m.2 NVMe Samsung 980 , another is a InnovationIT QLC 1 TB.

Please let me know if I need to provide anything more.

 

[TerryLaze]

Hitting 100 degrees is default with these CPUs ,the shut off temp is 130 and the real user specifiable max temp is 115 degrees (not recommended since it's considered overclock) .
So 100 is not overheating, it's 15% away from overheating and 30% away from shut off.

Error and Thermal Protection Signals - 010 - ID:655258 | 12th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors

THERMTRIP#

Thermal Trip: The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there are no false trips. The processor will stop all executions when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 130 °C. This is signaled to the system by the THRMTRIP# pin.

There should be a setting in your bios where you can lower max temp below 100 if you want to.
Or you can lower the TDP limits, if that doesn't reduce performance too much, and that would also improve the temps.

 

[TerryLaze]

Please let me know if I need to provide anything more.

You could look at what amount of watts the CPU uses, that would tell us if the mobo is overclocking the CPU.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

be quiet Dark Base Pro 900 Rev 2

these are nice cases but do not offer very good airflow.
i would try removing the front panel just to see if temperatures improve noticeably.
if so, you will know that it is the lack of cool air intake that is the issue.

you can then try
removing the top drive trays and add another 140mm front intake,
add a 140mm bottom floor intake
and a top-rear 140mm exhaust.

temperatures should normalize quite a bit.

one rear fan, 2 front fans (120mm)

this case comes with 3x Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM fans.
if you've replaced them with some 120mm version, include the new make & model.

these are not controlled by mobo.
fan is controlled from BIOS itself.

if these fans are not connected to the motherboard they would not be recognized in the BIOS.

are they all connected to the case hub
and then that hub is connected to the motherboard,
or is the fan hub connected directly to a fan control button?

 

[sharpknel]

I made a mistake while describing the cabinet fans, those are the default fans that came with the cabinet. So, yes they are indeed the 140mm fans.

Regarding airflow, I tried opening the front panel (it's like a door), that made almost no change. I really thought that this case being such a large one, might be really good at managing airflow. I should be more careful next time.

I think the fans are not connected to the mobo, if possible I will try to do it. I bought this computer and also the assembly service. So I just chose the hardwares.

But I think, I need to dig deeper now to understand the setup more.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

Air Cooler : Be Quiet Deep Rock Pro 4

bought this computer and also the assembly service. So I just chose the hardwares

the Dark Rock Pro 4 are also pretty nice coolers.
it should be able to do a better job than you seem to be seeing.

maybe try remounting it and make sure it is firmly attached with enough contact to the CPU.

and try readjusting it's fan speed curve to run at higher RPMs.

 

[sharpknel]

You could look at what amount of watts the CPU uses, that would tell us if the mobo is overclocking the CPU.

I just checked the wattage from HWINFO64, in the enhanced section.

CPU Package pwer reads as : 208.642 W and it maxed to 230.210W

Screenshot :

https://imgur.com/a/WxE6Dr5

 

[TerryLaze]

I just checked the wattage from HWINFO64, in the enhanced section.

CPU Package pwer reads as : 208.642 W and it maxed to 230.210W

Screenshot :

https://imgur.com/a/WxE6Dr5

230W shows that your cooling isn't enough to get the full 241w the cpu is rated for, the pic also shows that the power limits in the bios are set to be 288W ALL THE TIME, when the CPU is supposed to run at 241W maximum all of the time but the normal is for it to go down to 125W after a minute or two.

Good thing you paid for the assembly service ... they screwed it up pretty well.


Anyway...go into bios and find the PL1 and PL2 settings (long duration and short duration power) set both to 190W and you will lose maybe 2% performance but your system will be cooler.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...er-lake-tested-at-various-power-limits/2.html

 

[sharpknel]

230W shows that your cooling isn't enough to get the full 241w the cpu is rated for, the pic also shows that the power limits in the bios are set to be 288W ALL THE TIME, when the CPU is supposed to run at 241W maximum all of the time but the normal is for it to go down to 125W after a minute or two.

Good thing you paid for the assembly service ... they screwed it up pretty well.


Anyway...go into bios and find the PL1 and PL2 settings (long duration and short duration power) set both to 190W and you will lose maybe 2% performance but your system will be cooler.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...er-lake-tested-at-various-power-limits/2.html

My wattage screenshot was taken with full load, I forgot to mention that.

I see... I could not risk doing it alone as it was an expensive PC, and without proper knowledge I did not even understand what they did. I needed a PC and also needed some assistance if it breaks down, so there's also warranty. So looked like a good deal.

The temp did not look normal. That's when I started digging out.


Could you please tell me, how you came up with 190W for PL1 and PL2? I would really like to know about this. Both these terms are very new to me!

 

[TerryLaze]

Could you please tell me, how you came up with 190W for PL1 and PL2? I would really like to know about this. Both these terms are very new to me!

If you look at the big picture I posted above it has different benchmarks of the 12900k at different power levels.
Of the bottom three lines the two are for the 12900k once at 241w and once at 190w , it shows 100% for the 241w and 97.9% for 190w.

 

[sharpknel]

Thanks a lot for the explanation!
I did not know about any of these! I set the PL1 and PL2 to 190W.

It did bring down the temp to almost a solid 10°C. It is not anymore stuck at 99°C at full load, rather its fluctuating between ~89-94, and sometimes peaking to 100.

Here's couple of screenshots I took in different softwares during these tests. All tests are done with cinebench 2024 multi core CPU benchmarking. I don't know which software is more correct. But RealTemp seems to show the lowest out of them all. I would be very happy if that indeed is the most correct reading lol.

https://imgur.com/a/zVVl1p1

 

[TerryLaze]

Thanks a lot for the explanation!
I did not know about any of these! I set the PL1 and PL2 to 190W.

It did bring down the temp to almost a solid 10°C. It is not anymore stuck at 99°C at full load, rather its fluctuating between ~89-94, and sometimes peaking to 100.

If you are willing to invest some time you can also try even lower numbers until you start noticing a difference in performance on the things you actually do, to get even better temps.

If you install XTU (intel extreme tuning utility) you can also make profiles for different software so it will automatically use more or less power for them (you have to set the limit yourself) depending on if they lose performance or not.

 

[sharpknel]

I found another interesting thing behind my cabinet. There's a performance and a silent mode for the cabinet fans. I tweaked to performance mode, and it brought down the temp even more. Now it goes around 80-85 under full load with the cabinet fans running at full speed.

They were previously running at 50% speed. So that did help a lot!
They are now connected at a fan hub behind the cabinet. I don't know how it works, but would explore ways to unplug the fans from there and plug them into mobo sockets, so that I can control the fan speed from mobo itself.

I tried to install intel XTU, but it won't open , it says I have to do sometihng with the Under Volt Protection in BIOS (probably has to enable it). But I could not find it in the BIOS, probably have to update BIOS. But that process is also unknown to me. So I have to do that first I guess.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

They are now connected at a fan hub behind the cabinet. I don't know how it works, but would explore ways to unplug the fans from there and plug them into mobo sockets, so that I can control the fan speed from mobo itself.

there should be a 4 pin PWM out cable running from the hub.
this would connect to a motherboard PWM fan header.
there should also be a setting on the hub for PWM mode or something similar.

then that motherboard header's fan speed curve can be set through the BIOS or through a fan control software within Windows.

the MSI product support downloads page for this motherboard will offer motherboard control software that should allow control for the onboard fan headers.

 

[sharpknel]

I found the 4 pin PWM connected to Sys Fan 2. But it doesn't show anything in the BIOS. My Mobo is PWM only, so there's no changing from voltage mode. It simply is not there.
Now, I am manually controlling the fan speed from CPU cabinet itself (it has got a slider for that). But I would love to connect those fan speed to that of CPU temperature if possible.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

I found the 4 pin PWM connected to Sys Fan 2. But it doesn't show anything in the BIOS. My Mobo is PWM only, so there's no changing from voltage mode. It simply is not there.

you want them in PWM mode.

I am manually controlling the fan speed from CPU cabinet itself (it has got a slider for that). But I would love to connect those fan speed to that of CPU temperature if possible.

the MSI product support downloads page for this motherboard will offer motherboard control software that should allow control for the onboard fan headers.

if the software has the available option you will be able to create and set the fans' speed curve based on CPU temperature.

most modern motherboard manufacturers these days have the option built-in to their motherboard control software.

the software will need to be run and setup from within Windows.

 

[sharpknel]

After some digging with my cabinet as a keyword, I found out that the default fan controller setup doesn't get detected in the PWM even though they are connected right to the mobo. I had to unplug a pin and plug it into Fan 4 in the Cabinet Fan Controller itself, that resulted in getting it detected and controlled in the BIOS.

So, all in all, great success!