Question I9 series and microcode updates VS bios settings ?

[Digital~Dreams]

All updates applied and it appears performance and CPU temperatures have dropped a little both from my experience and a few others. This leads to my quandary....

Now the microcode updates have been applied are the 'Intel default settings' still necessary or overkill by Intel to reduce returns ?

I've seen one user suggest.....
Set Asus optimised (instead of the two Intel defaults).
Set specific core performance ratio limit to 57X for all P cores.
Set SVID behaviour to Typical.
Set ICC MAX to 400
Set PL1 and PL2 to 253W

Educated thoughts from experience ?

 

[geofelt]

The 13/14th gen issues came about in two parts.
Motherboard makers were in competition to offer superior performing products.
This led to bypassing official specs. particularly related to voltage.
Intel offered bios updates to force adherence to the specs.
After problems persisted the root cause was found in the chips themselves and more bios fixes were issued.
It could not assess the damage already done and the warranties were extended.

My experience would say to install the bios updates to currency and to run the processors at normal settings.
If you find an issue, create an RMA. There are many things that can cause problems, If you can replace with a known good cpu to test, your rma will go through.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Were you having an actual problem before?

Are you wanting maximum performance or maximum longevity of your CPU?

What are your motherboard and CPU cooler models? What is your CPU model?

 

[TerryLaze]

Now the microcode updates have been applied are the 'Intel default settings' still necessary or overkill by Intel to reduce returns ?

Anything other than default settings is overclocking, if everything got applied correctly, if microcode and bios and everything was done right then it should stop the CPU from getting too much voltage now, even when overclocking (unless you manually force too much voltage) ,but overclocking still causes degradation just much slower as was the case with the problems.

Basically it's up to your digression.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Anything other than default settings is overclocking, if everything got applied correctly, if microcode and bios and everything was done right then it should stop the CPU from getting too much voltage now, even when overclocking (unless you manually force too much voltage) ,but overclocking still causes degradation just much slower as was the case with the problems.

Basically it's up to your digression.

I think you meant "discretion".

di·gres·sion
/dīˈɡreSHən/


noun
noun: digression; plural noun: digressions

1. a temporary departure from the main subject in speech or writing.

 

[Digital~Dreams]

Anything other than default settings is overclocking, if everything got applied correctly, if microcode and bios and everything was done right then it should stop the CPU from getting too much voltage now, even when overclocking (unless you manually force too much voltage) ,but overclocking still causes degradation just much slower as was the case with the problems.

Basically it's up to your digression.

Hmmm overclocking is a dodgy term these days as ASUS and Intel themselves do it anyway. Guess the basic question is 'have the microcode updates cured the actual cause ?'

 

[Darkbreeze]

The actual cause was bad instructions and settings. Those have been addressed by Intel, so as far as that goes, the assumption (And yes, I know, assumptions) would be that yes the problem is "cured". However, manual confirmation by actually monitoring what's going on is still always going to be your best mechanism for avoiding problems.

 

[TerryLaze]

Hmmm overclocking is a dodgy term these days as ASUS and Intel themselves do it anyway. Guess the basic question is 'have the microcode updates cured the actual cause ?'

Intel doesn't, they don't sell pre build PCs and the CPU itself has nothing in it that forces an overclock against anybody's will.
Mobo makers have also been instructed to clearly label anything outside of stock forcing the bios to display a message where you have to manually select an overclocked option.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Intel doesn't, they don't sell pre build PCs and the CPU itself has nothing in it that forces an overclock against anybody's will.
Mobo makers have also been instructed to clearly label anything outside of stock forcing the bios to display a message where you have to manually select an overclocked option.

Not that anybody abides by that, clearly. Case in point, look at any of the last, oh, IDK, five Gens. Almost every board manufacturer has had to dial back what they sent boards out with from the factory for a number of configurations. These last and most recent problems are only an extra bit of "sorry, we got carried away" when it comes to these concerns. As I know you know.

 

[TerryLaze]

Not that anybody abides by that, clearly. Case in point, look at any of the last, oh, IDK, five Gens. Almost every board manufacturer has had to dial back what they sent boards out with from the factory for a number of configurations. These last and most recent problems are only an extra bit of "sorry, we got carried away" when it comes to these concerns. As I know you know.

The argument was that that 'carried away' isn't overclock not that it never happened.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I can agree with that. Totally.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

I have the i5-14600K running on a Pro MSI Z-790A WiFi MOBO. I built this as a gamer for my son almost exactly a year ago; at a time when it was becoming evident the MOBO manufacturers were leaving there boards open to overvolting CPU's as a default setting. Luckily, I had noticed the discussions when deciding on the 14600K, so when I started the build, I did the setup conservatively.

I flashed the bios before installing the CPU as recommended for 14th gen chips with the z790 boards. After completing that, I installed the CPU and got it otherwise ready for it's first boot. Upon posting, the first question upon entering the bios was to state the type of cooler being used. 1 - stock cooler 2 - box cooler or 3 - water cooler. I wasn't sure what it meant, but I chose option 1, figuring from what I had read these settings were among the first answers from MOBO manufacturers to address some of the overvolting that had been going on. This setting allowed excellent performance.

Because of the issues with overvolting and heat that I had already read about, I was a little surprised at the performance and the lack of high heat. The initial temps were in the upper80'sC. With 5.3Mhz on p-cores 4.5 Mhz on e-cores iirc. But the reading I had done suggested undervolting and further reducing the temps. I did this by using the CPU-Lite setting in the Bios and had that down to level 9 iirc. Voltages went down to 1.23V and temps dropped by 10C to not above 75C. same performance levels.

I religiously checked Bios updates and installed them and tested the results with Cinebench23 and HWMonitor. There were essentially no changes, altho I did have to go in and reallpy the CPU-Lite settings after each one. Then in October or November 2024 a Bios update significantly changed the performance while increasing themps. Suddenly I was running into the 90'sC - even to 99C while performance had dropped to 4.9Mhz on the p-cores and lower too on the e-cores - i don't remember the number. After much messing with things, knowing what the chip was capable of and going deeper into OC settings than I was comfortable with and still not getting the temps down and perfromance to where I knew they could be, I went with the default optimized settings in the bios and rebooted.

That change yielded the better performance, but the temps were 99C, 100C, so I shut down the test. Went into the CPU-Lite settings again they were set at like 21 iirc, so I put that back down to 9 and retested. Temps were down the to no more than 85C, so I went in and set the p-cores to 5.5Mhz and the e-cores to 4.9Mhz. Tested again. Temps still topping out no higher than 85C with performance stuck at those higher levels. The Cinebench23 score on that setup was 25xxx so I left it alone at that point.

It has been running great ever since, there was a new bios update in Dec that I did not install. I have left it alone for a while now. I will probably check it again soon, but I figure I'll have to go in and make the undervolting and OC changes all over again, so I'm slow-rolling it. Anyway... below is a link to a thread where the videos I followed and a reddit user who tuned his 13700K in that manner I did with my 14600K. Good luck.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/i7-14700k-temps-too-high.3871729/page-2#posts Post 50 is where I posted the videos and the reddit link...