Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (
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In article <20040905224857.04845.00002922@mb-m24.aol.com>,
Jdyer41 <jdyer41@aol.com> wrote:
>>dbs@cs.wisc.edu (Dan Shiovitz) wrote:
>>>Tommy Herbert <cavebloke@excite.com> wrote:
>>>Yes. In fact, his overall philosophy strikes me as lopsided. He
>>>writes "Simply presenting a challenge is insufficient", which doesn't
>>>seem to be true for many people.
>>
>>Hmm, I don't think I agree with that either. Like, imagine a game
[..]
>I presume by the statement above Tommy simply means it
>is possible for people to enjoy puzzles for their own sake.
>This doesn't mean they enjoy *bad* puzzles.
Right, exactly. I think what I am stumbling towards is proposing an
expansion of the reason Adam gave for "why keep playing?". What he
said was:
> [..] just as a writer of straight prose needs to give the reader a reason
> to continue turning pages, an IF writer needs to give the player a
> reason to type something other than "quit." Simply presenting a
> challenge is insufficient: it's the writer's job to motivate the
> player to want to take on that challenge. Usually, this means the
> promise of a reward: the reward of good prose. Funny responses to
> commands, interesting plot developments, that sort of thing.
To this I'd add that a major part of the reward for solving puzzles is
getting to solve the puzzles, and that in addition to a reward the
game needs to have some direction as to where to go, even if it's
just "there's no set plot, go wander".
[..]
>I don't think the problem is wide-open spaces per se, but that
>wide-open spaces in IF are often an illusion: they have nothing
>to do that refers to puzzle or plot, and the exploration tends
>not to be well-worked out enough to sustain interest. I might
>enjoy a somewhat directionless IF if every route was worth
>taking (and it isn't a situation with 20 puzzles and only 1 of
>them is currently solvable but you aren't told which one).
Adam (to bring this discussion back to the start) has taken a couple
cracks at this problem, since he is big one exploration and playing
around. One is _Varicella_ -- there's a known plot and a given
objective, but if you want you can ignore them and go around playing
with the toys (the car, the camera, etc) and talking to the
people. The other is _Narcolepsy_ -- this has no toys, but it makes
the various paths worth taking by providing lots of plot wherever you
go, at least in theory.
Anchorhead is another game that I remember being pretty decent in
giving a wide-open space but not being pointless wandering; but
perhaps it seems wider in retrospect than it really was.
>Jason Dyer
--
Dan Shiovitz :: dbs@cs.wisc.edu ::
http://www.drizzle.com/~dans
"He settled down to dictate a letter to the Consolidated Nailfile and
Eyebrow Tweezer Corporation of Scranton, Pa., which would make them
realize that life is stern and earnest and Nailfile and Eyebrow Tweezer
Corporations are not put in this world for pleasure alone." -PGW
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