Question If same price 2600x or 2700 ? sorry for this title

[aGoodOldRub]

I am just gonna play games and I found a deal where I can get the 2700 for the same price as 2600x I mean kinda. I can get 2600x with b450 gaming plus asus MOBO or 2700 with msi a pro mobo. I don't think motherboard brand difference make a big difference ?

I would like to spend no more than 50 dollars on a cooler unless I can use a cooler for next gen CPUs after years when this CPU gets out dated.

Anyways I am sorry to bother with such questions but from my research I really didn't find any answer but random theories.

 

[computerjoe314]

The 2700 would be the better choice.
Unless your are planning on overclocking, the cooler that comes with the CPU will be just fine.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I am just gonna play games and I found a deal where I can get the 2700 for the same price as 2600x I mean kinda. I can get 2600x with b450 gaming plus asus MOBO or 2700 with msi a pro mobo. I don't think motherboard brand difference make a big difference ?

I would like to spend no more than 50 dollars on a cooler unless I can use a cooler for next gen CPUs after years when this CPU gets out dated.

Anyways I am sorry to bother with such questions but from my research I really didn't find any answer but random theories.

What brand is the b450 gaming plus...since msi makes one and Asus really doesn't that I can find. And what is the MSI 'a pro'? that's unfamiliar to me.

Which one processor is of greater value to you kind of depends on how you'd use it. If you're going to overclock and need lots of threads for your apps then the 2700 is rather obvious choice.

If you don't want to overclock and just game the 2600X would be better because games depends more on one or two cores boosting to higher clocks and that processor does that better since it's an 'x' chip.

If you are going to overclock, though, the value of the deal really depends on the motherboard specifics since there is a lot of overclock variability with overclocking prowess, especially for 8 core CPU's.

 

[mdd1963]

Given the same price, I'd probably choose the 2700, and hope it achieves the same 4.2+ GHz that the 2600X would, but, through a few overclocks vice stock....; the two extra cores will come in handy for any editing/workstation use, or even gaming while streaming; but gaming alone, perhaps some day.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Given the same price, I'd probably choose the 2700, and hope it achieves the same 4.2+ GHz that the 2600X would, but, through a few overclocks vice stock....; the two extra cores will come in handy for any editing/workstation use, or even gaming while streaming; but gaming alone, perhaps some day.

Except it really depends heavily on whether the motherboard in the deal can even support overclocking it. There's not that many B450 motherboards capable of overclocking an 8 core CPU to 4.2Ghz and be stable doing it so that's an important part of the answer.

 

[TJ Hooker]

There's not that many B450 motherboards capable of overclocking an 8 core CPU to 4.2Ghz and be stable doing it so that's an important part of the answer.

There are several reviews of the B450 Tomahawk handling 8 cores @ 4.2 GHz, and the B450-A Pro mentioned by the OP has the same VRMs (albeit with a different heatsink). I think it'd be ok.

There's even a review of the Asrock Pro4 (one of the cheapest B450 boards that still has VRM heatsinks) getting 4.2 GHz on 8 cores, albeit from a site that's rather unknown to me.

 

[drea.drechsler]

There are several reviews of the B450 Tomahawk handling 8 cores @ 4.2 GHz, and the B450-A Pro mentioned by the OP has the same VRMs (albeit with a different heatsink). I think it'd be ok.

There's even a review of the Asrock Pro4 (one of the cheapest B450 boards that still has VRM heatsinks) getting 4.2 GHz on 8 cores, albeit from a site that's rather unknown to me.

Is that the boards he's talking about in his deal? I asked OP to clarify that the boards as I got confused. MSI B450 Gaming Plus is a great board but his post suggests it's an ASUS board? or is it the 'a plus'? I'd be hesitant to take an 8 core to 4.2Gig on any Asus B450. They got great BIOS's, but their VRM's are sketch.

Bottom line is OP's baseline assumption is 'all B450 boards are equal' so to him it's just about the processor: I don't think it is, board matters a lot and gets even more important with an 8 core.

And also, overclocking an 8 core to 4.2G conventionally is a bit advanced IMO, even for Ryzen which is pretty simple. Lots of testing and good cooling is needed. IMO, if he's just gaming getting the 2600x on an MSI board that now lets you flip PBO on and slide all the over-rides to max and let XFR boost two cores to the max during games is the way to go. Easy peasy. The difficult part is tweaking the VCore offset to lower voltage and help the cores stay boosted longer.

 

[TJ Hooker]

I was just looking at the 2nd mobo mentioned, that apparently is paired with the 2700. OP said "msi a pro", which I assumed to be referring to the B450-A Pro.

 

[InvalidError]

Bottom line is OP's baseline assumption is 'all B450 boards are equal' so to him it's just about the processor: I don't think it is, board matters a lot and gets even more important with an 8 core.

Unless you intend to overclock (not specified by OP), then even the crappiest boards usually manage to do fine (otherwise they'd get in trouble with Intel and AMD for causing an abnormal volume of CPU/APU warranty claims) and motherboard choice boils down to picking one that has the extra bells and whistles you want.

 

[TJ Hooker]

I would like to spend no more than 50 dollars on a cooler unless I can use a cooler for next gen CPUs after years when this CPU gets out dated.

Yes, you will almost certainly be able to reuse the cooler in the future. Most mainstream coolers support all recent AMD and Intel sockets, and even if a new socket comes along that breaks compatibility (as was the case with AM4, which I think was the first time that happened in quite a while) there's a decent chance you'd just need to get a new bracket/adapter rather than replace the whole cooler.

A good air cooler should last more or less indefinitely, although the fan may need to be replace eventually. AIO liquid coolers typically have a limited lifespan.

 

[aGoodOldRub]

What brand is the b450 gaming plus...since msi makes one and Asus really doesn't that I can find. And what is the MSI 'a pro'? that's unfamiliar to me.

Which one processor is of greater value to you kind of depends on how you'd use it. If you're going to overclock and need lots of threads for your apps then the 2700 is rather obvious choice.

If you don't want to overclock and just game the 2600X would be better because games depends more on one or two cores boosting to higher clocks and that processor does that better since it's an 'x' chip.

If you are going to overclock, though, the value of the deal really depends on the motherboard specifics since there is a lot of overclock variability with overclocking prowess, especially for 8 core CPU's.

Yes, you will almost certainly be able to reuse the cooler in the future. Most mainstream coolers support all recent AMD and Intel sockets, and even if a new socket comes along that breaks compatibility (as was the case with AM4, which I think was the first time that happened in quite a while) there's a decent chance you'd just need to get a new bracket/adapter rather than replace the whole cooler.

A good air cooler should last more or less indefinitely, although the fan may need to be replace eventually. AIO liquid coolers typically have a limited lifespan.

ASUS TUF B450M-Plus Gaming

MSI B450-A PRO

I am not sure if I should buy a 130-150$ liquid cooler with 5-6 years warranty or an air cooler ? Yes I want to overclock sorry for the confusion I assumed you would get it when I mention buying a cooler. Also I read what you guys discussed so I assume I should pick 2700 over 2600x as I will overclock with a cooler ? and no I have no other intentions but gaming. I just want to stop my micro shutters on games and stop the bottleneck on my gtx 1060 3gb

Also as far as I know games only use 1 or 2 cores so does overclocking only 2 cores (if there is such thing) decrease the heat output when overcloked ? just curious


Edit: Actually as I understand 2700 is just more expensive cause of 2 extra cores and which wont do anything on gaming and 2600x is more likely to OC on higher speeds so I assume 2600x would be a better choice for me since I don't really thing 8 cores over 6 cores will be a big difference in the next 5 years when it comes to gaming.

 

[drea.drechsler]

ASUS TUF B450M-Plus Gaming

MSI B450-A PRO

I am not sure if I should buy a 130-150$ liquid cooler with 5-6 years warranty or an air cooler ? Yes I want to overclock sorry for the confusion I assumed you would get it when I mention buying a cooler. Also I read what you guys discussed so I assume I should pick 2700 over 2600x as I will overclock with a cooler ? and no I have no other intentions but gaming. I just want to stop my micro shutters on games and stop the bottleneck on my gtx 1060 3gb

Also as far as I know games only use 1 or 2 cores so does overclocking only 2 cores (if there is such thing) decrease the heat output when overcloked ? just curious


Edit: Actually as I understand 2700 is just more expensive cause of 2 extra cores and which wont do anything on gaming and 2600x is more likely to OC on higher speeds so I assume 2600x would be a better choice for me since I don't really thing 8 cores over 6 cores will be a big difference in the next 5 years when it comes to gaming.

At first, I wanted to say I'd definitely take the 2700 on MSI B450 Gaming Pro too now that the board situation is clearer to me. But since it's 'only' a 2600X (6 core) on the weaker VRM of the Asus board it may be OK if other features appeal.

You can not explicitly overclock select cores on Ryzen processors. But what you can do is help Ryzen's XFR2 to boost the two best cores to high clocks and hold it a long time. If done right it will hold those cores at boost clocks throughout games and even a benchmark run.

XFR2 or PBO2, whichever you want to call it, is only available on the 'X' CPU's, such as the 2600X. You enable the PBO setting and a few others in BIOS and a 2600X will boost it's best cores to 4100-4200 range and hold it (many report up to 4300, but that seems to be the limit, with other tweaks). A 2700 (non-X) can only overclock using the all-core manual method which consumes more power and generates more heat and takes a lot of trial and error to get into the 4100-4200 range...IF your mobo's VRM is capable of it.

PBO overclocking also works best with better cooling on the processor since the cooler you make it the higher/longer it boosts.

And yes, you are right about games in that even the most multi-threaded games will use one thread significantly more heavily and that one thread is going to be the source of CPU bottlenecks. It will probably always be that way, even as games become increasingly multi-threaded, because of the way the code has to work. Something about sequential processing with dependencies that have to be executed on one thread.

But the appeal of the 8 core is unbeatable if you plan on streaming while you game, or do anything else that's processor-intensive. Video encoding is a burden on the processor that makes those two extra cores unbeatable.

 

[aGoodOldRub]

At first, I wanted to say I'd definitely take the 2700 on MSI B450 Gaming Pro too now that the board situation is clearer to me. But since it's 'only' a 2600X (6 core) on the weaker VRM of the Asus board it may be OK if other features appeal.

You can not explicitly overclock select cores on Ryzen processors. But what you can do is help Ryzen's XFR2 to boost the two best cores to high clocks and hold it a long time. If done right it will hold those cores at boost clocks throughout games and even a benchmark run.

XFR2 or PBO2, whichever you want to call it, is only available on the 'X' CPU's, such as the 2600X. You enable the PBO setting and a few others in BIOS and a 2600X will boost it's best cores to 4100-4200 range and hold it (many report up to 4300, but that seems to be the limit, with other tweaks). A 2700 (non-X) can only overclock using the all-core manual method which consumes more power and generates more heat and takes a lot of trial and error to get into the 4100-4200 range...IF your mobo's VRM is capable of it.

PBO overclocking also works best with better cooling on the processor since the cooler you make it the higher/longer it boosts.

And yes, you are right about games in that even the most multi-threaded games will use one thread significantly more heavily and that one thread is going to be the source of CPU bottlenecks. It will probably always be that way, even as games become increasingly multi-threaded, because of the way the code has to work. Something about sequential processing with dependencies that have to be executed on one thread.

But the appeal of the 8 core is unbeatable if you plan on streaming while you game, or do anything else that's processor-intensive. Video encoding is a burden on the processor that makes those two extra cores unbeatable.

I see 2600x seems good then. But I assumed the Asus board I mentioned was superior to the msi board I mentioned

 

[drea.drechsler]

I see 2600x seems good then. But I assumed the Asus board I mentioned was superior to the msi board I mentioned

Asus has a great BIOS, but the TUF is not a great board otherwise for overclocking. MSI has a very strong VRM design they put on their B450 boards that runs cooler even with 8 core processors.

BTW, as I understand it the deals you're comparing is a 2600X on Asus B450 TUF...or a 2700 on MSI B450 Gaming Pro.

Also, you don't have to spend $130-150 on a decent 240mm cooler.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=2KY-001T-00027&Description=240mm liquid cooler&cm_re=240mm_liquid_cooler--2KY-001T-00027--Product

 

[MetallicMonk]

2700 for me.

 

[TJ Hooker]

XFR2 or PBO2, whichever you want to call it, is only available on the 'X' CPU's, such as the 2600X.

This is not true. PBO2/XFR2 are available with non-X CPUs.

Actually as I understand 2700 is just more expensive cause of 2 extra cores and which wont do anything on gaming and 2600x is more likely to OC on higher speeds

Eh, not necessarily. And the superior motherboard you get with the 2700 may be enough to make up for any differences in overclock-ability that might exist.

 

[drea.drechsler]

This is not true. PBO2/XFR2 are available with non-X CPUs.
...

PBO2 is...but it won't boost as high as a 2600X (4.1G vs 4.2) and the 2600X has a 95W TDP so it will boost longer than 2700 with 65W TDP. .

ALSO....the base operating frequency of 2600X is higher: 3.6 vs. 3.2 for 2700.

I'm pretty sure 'XFR' is a feature only owners of 'X' CPU's get to enjoy, 1st gen or 2nd gen. It's kind of 'in the name'. XFR has no set high limit on Ryzen 2000 'X' CPU's, so long as thermals are under control.

This is really only consequential for someone who games exclusively and wants maximum two-core performance.

 

[drea.drechsler]

This is not true. PBO2/XFR2 are available with non-X CPUs.
...

PBO2 is...but it won't boost as high as a 2600X (4.1G vs 4.2) and the 2600X has a 95W TDP so it will boost longer than 2700 with 65W TDP. Of course, turn on performance boost over-rides and you can overcome TDP .

ALSO....the base operating frequency of 2600X is higher: 3.6 vs. 3.2 for 2700.

I'm pretty sure 'XFR' is a feature only owners of 'X' CPU's get to enjoy, 1st gen or 2nd gen, very effectively. It's kind of 'in the name'. XFR has no set high limit on Ryzen 2000 CPU's, so long as thermals are under control...but it will work much higher/longer on X CPU's. That's the feature that makes 'PBO Overclocking' work so well on 'X' CPU's

This is really only consequential for someone who games exclusively and wants maximum two-core performance. With XFR boosting a 2600X will boost into the 4.3Ghz range for two cores, the rest of the cores at 3.6, if thermals are in control (good cooling) and hold it throughout a gaming session if over-rides are in effect. A 2700 will boost very little past it's 4.1 rating and the rest of the cores are stuck at measly 3.2.

Getting a 4.2Ghz all-core overclock on a 2700 is not common, it can be done but it demands a willingness to run at high volts. Getting the PBO overclock of the 2600X is so easy, that's why it's worth considering especially...like i said...for games.

 

[aGoodOldRub]

PBO2 is...but it won't boost as high as a 2600X (4.1G vs 4.2) and the 2600X has a 95W TDP so it will boost longer than 2700 with 65W TDP. Of course, turn on performance boost over-rides and you can overcome TDP .

ALSO....the base operating frequency of 2600X is higher: 3.6 vs. 3.2 for 2700.

I'm pretty sure 'XFR' is a feature only owners of 'X' CPU's get to enjoy, 1st gen or 2nd gen, very effectively. It's kind of 'in the name'. XFR has no set high limit on Ryzen 2000 CPU's, so long as thermals are under control...but it will work much higher/longer on X CPU's. That's the feature that makes 'PBO Overclocking' work so well on 'X' CPU's

This is really only consequential for someone who games exclusively and wants maximum two-core performance. With XFR boosting a 2600X will boost into the 4.3Ghz range for two cores, the rest of the cores at 3.6, if thermals are in control (good cooling) and hold it throughout a gaming session if over-rides are in effect. A 2700 will boost very little past it's 4.1 rating and the rest of the cores are stuck at measly 3.2.

Getting a 4.2Ghz all-core overclock on a 2700 is not common, it can be done but it demands a willingness to run at high volts. Getting the PBO overclock of the 2600X is so easy, that's why it's worth considering especially...like i said...for games.

Well you think MSI b450 will let me OC the PBO then ? A pro , tomawahk all the same VRMs one has better looks and better cooling but who cares about few degrees even if it does that.

 

[TJ Hooker]

PBO2 is...but it won't boost as high as a 2600X (4.1G vs 4.2) and the 2600X has a 95W TDP so it will boost longer than 2700 with 65W TDP. Of course, turn on performance boost over-rides and you can overcome TDP .

ALSO....the base operating frequency of 2600X is higher: 3.6 vs. 3.2 for 2700.

I'm pretty sure 'XFR' is a feature only owners of 'X' CPU's get to enjoy, 1st gen or 2nd gen, very effectively. It's kind of 'in the name'.

No, XFR (and XFR2) is also on non-X CPUs. https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/PSA-AMD-XFR-Enabled-All-Ryzen-CPUs-X-SKUs-Have-Wider-Range
"2nd Generation AMD Ryzen™ desktop processors can automatically reward that choice with XFR 2. For example: All 2nd Generation AMD Ryzen™ processors can take advantage of the lower temperatures offered by premium cooling to enable higher multicore performance."
https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/sense-mi

I believe XFR(2) may allow the CPU to boost beyond its normal TDP limits depending on temperature, but I'm not sure. If not you may be able to work around this just by increasing power limits in the BIOS.

Yes, I realize that the 2600X has higher stock base/boost clocks. Although the base clocks don't really matter as either CPU should always be boosting to some extent under load.

But all this is largely irrelevant here, as the OP has stated they plan on overclocking.

Edit:

This is really only consequential for someone who games exclusively and wants maximum two-core performance. With XFR boosting a 2600X will boost into the 4.3Ghz range for two cores, the rest of the cores at 3.6, if thermals are in control (good cooling) and hold it throughout a gaming session if over-rides are in effect. A 2700 will boost very little past it's 4.1 rating and the rest of the cores are stuck at measly 3.2.

Nope, not how it works. See example of how frequency scales with core loading here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ryzen-7-2700-2700x-review,5606.html

 

[drea.drechsler]

Well you think MSI b450 will let me OC the PBO then ? A pro , tomawahk all the same VRMs one has better looks and better cooling but who cares about few degrees even if it does that.

With latest BIOS, yes it will. Latest BIOS adds VCore offsets which let's you actually lower VCore from default settings. A lower VCore helps CPU run cooler and that helps the PBO over clock go higher and longer. How 'low' it can go depends, of course, on your CPU's characteristics.

Here is a youtube of Buildzoid showing 'how it's done' on another MSI board. It will work similarly on their B450 boards. Just ignore what he does with memory, unless you're interested in that too.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ8zdprzEjI&t=150s


Look at all the features of course but Tomahawk has a really good heatsink on the FET's, large surface area with decent fins. It's by no means in the 'extreme class', but it helped give it a good reputation for the moderate kind of '24/7' overclocking we do.

 

[InvalidError]

Look at all the features of course but Tomahawk has a really good heatsink on the FET's, large surface area with decent fins.

Having a super fancy heatsink on the VRM doesn't help all that much when the plastic package adds 10+C/W of thermal resistance between the junction and heatsink vs 2-3C/W for the thermal pad under the FETs. This is like forgetting to remove the plastic film from the HSF before putting it on the CPU, better than nothing but not performing anywhere near as good as it could/should. Design the copper planes under the FETs properly, make sure there is adequate airflow across the PCB and you get more effective cooling than slapping ridiculous heatsinks on top which impede airflow across the PCB itself.

If motherboard manufacturers were genuinely worried about FET cooling, they'd put them on the bottom PCB layer, fill thermal pads with vias, fill those vias with solder to maximize thermal conductivity through the PCB and then put heatsinks on the top side, directly across the FETs' thermal vias. This maximizes both PCB cooling and heat transfer into the heatsink(s). They don't do it because they don't deem it necessary and boards with components on both sides require extra manufacturing steps, which means extra costs.

 

[aGoodOldRub]

What do you guys think about Msi b450 gaming pro carbon ac ? Does it worth 15-30$ more ? Spending over 300 dollar 15-30$ not much if it's worth it. Bluetooth is a plus. but other than that let's ignore the heatstink stuff and only thing left is power phase 11 vs 6 power phase according here
https://wccftech.com/amd-b450-motherboards-official-launch-msi-asus-asrock-gigabyte-roundup/

 

[drea.drechsler]

[

What do you guys think about Msi b450 gaming pro carbon ac ? Does it worth 15-30$ more ? Spending over 300 dollar 15-30$ not much if it's worth it. Bluetooth is a plus. but other than that let's ignore the heatstink stuff and only thing left is power phase 11 vs 6 power phase according here
https://wccftech.com/amd-b450-motherboards-official-launch-msi-asus-asrock-gigabyte-roundup/

Doesn't it have WiFi? I think that may be the feature that justifies it's extra cost. If not important, it's not worth it.

I'm not sure that WCCFTech is correct about it being '11 phase'. First, probably three of the 'phases' are actually SOC, not CPU Core, power. That will leave '8' for Vcore but I'm pretty sure those aren't true phases but really a 4 phase with doubled FET's and coils. That's the same basic design, minus the double up on the coils, that their other B450's with 'big-4 phase' VRM's have.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html#post25344552

 

[TJ Hooker]

What do you guys think about Msi b450 gaming pro carbon ac ? Does it worth 15-30$ more ? Spending over 300 dollar 15-30$ not much if it's worth it. Bluetooth is a plus. but other than that let's ignore the heatstink stuff and only thing left is power phase 11 vs 6 power phase according here
https://wccftech.com/amd-b450-motherboards-official-launch-msi-asus-asrock-gigabyte-roundup/

The Asus TUF Gaming Plus, the B450-A Pro, and the Pro Carbon all are 4+2 phase VRMs. They just have a little different configurations and/or use different chips. The Pro Carbon VRM is a bit better than the A Pro in theory, but I doubt enough to make any practical difference. You'd largely be paying for extra bells and whistles like built in Wifi/Bluetooth.