[SOLVED] input issues with MMO mice

Bongert

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I've been having very annoying input issues with my Razer Naga Trinity for quite a while.
I would call it something like "sticky inputs" but let me explain.

Basically, any input or not-input would sometimes "stick". Lets say I press the Left Mouse Button in a shooter. Sometimes, after having let go of the LMB already, the game keeps registering the button press and keeps shooting. I have to press the LMB over and over again until it registers me letting go of it. Or I switch to a different weapon or open a menu to get it to fix itself.
But the same thing happens when i don't have the LMB pressed and i want to press it. The game still thinks there's no input coming from the mouse and doesn't react, only until I click the button over and over again does it eventually register the click. This is only the case with the left and right mouse button from what I've experienced, could also be mouse wheel click, but I'm not sure. I'm certain it never happened with the side buttons.

I've been having this issue for pretty much as long as I have that mouse, so about a year. It occurs very inconsistently.
And the strangest part is is that it only ever happens in one singular game, Deep Rock Galactic.
I've tried looking for a solution every once in a while all over the place, even asked the devs directly. And every answer I find tells me it's the fault of Razers mouse software and not the game, even though it only happens with that one game.
Now I recently played the Dark and Darker playtest and noticed the same issue happen again, the only other game I've had this issue with and basically confirming the issue doesn't lie with DRG itself.

After that I went and bought some other MMO mice. I tried the Logitech G600, the Corsair Scimitar and the SteelSeries Aerox 9. Together with the Razer Naga, those are basically the only MMO mice available on the market that don't come from some dodgy, unknown brand.
I've tried them all and at least the Corsair Scimitar and SteelSeries Aerox 9 both have the same issue as described above.
For the G600, its been so long ago since I tried that one that I don't remember if it had the same sticky input issues, but I do know that that mouse and its accompanying software were just utter trash to the point that i simply couldn't use it, even if it didn't have the sticky input issue.

So now I'm back to square one. I've confirmed it's not an issue with that one game, and I've confirmed its not an issue with Razers software in particular. What other options do I have now? I already tried the usual of uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers, and I've just recently reinstalled windows too, so I'm kind of at my wits end.
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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little update
ive since bought a new "regular" mouse, the Logitech G Pro x Superlight.
ive uninstalled the razer synapse software as well as the razer naga mouse drivers and the issue still persists, basically confirming that it has nothing to do with the mouse or the software after all.
only problem is that i have now exhausted all ideas i had left for fixing this issue
strangely enough, i said in the original post that this input issue doesnt happen on the side buttons of the razer naga, but it does happen on the side buttons of the superlight. dont know why that is.
i have no idea what else i am supposed to do.
rebuilding all my files from a fresh windows install is simply not an option. ive tried that once, getting my browser alone to work took me an hour and the proper way of exporting and importing the user data resulted in a memory leak. the lengths id have to go through to do everything by hand and check at which point the mouse starts to show those issues is just not feasible
 

Ralston18

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Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

Include PSU: make model, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)? History of heavy gaming use?

Try the built in Windows troubleshooters.

Try "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

How to use DISM command tool to repair Windows 10 image | Windows Central

Take a look in Reliability History and Event Viewer. Either one or both may be capturing some error codes, warnings, or even informational events when the input problems occur. Errors or patterns of errors common to game playing times may be a clue.
 
Something to understand about software that works with a mouse is that it depends on "events". A button down event, a button up event, so on. In USB, if it functions correctly, you'd see all of these events. It is possible that the USB itself is causing dropped events. Sometimes this is due to signal quality, but it is also possible this is caused by competing devices.

Every computer with USB has a few "root HUBs". Each root HUB can have a "device" plugged into it, or it can have another HUB plugged in to it (which is not a root HUB). Traffic on the root HUB is limited to a certain amount. If more than one device is using that root HUB (and this is almost always the case), then it is possible that there will eventually be collisions in traffic which is too extreme to buffer. Example: Three USB3.1 gen. 1 cameras consuming 5 Gb/s, and using a HUB to talk to a USB 3.1 gen. 2 root HUB (which can handle 10 Gb/s); this would exceed theoretical bandwidth by 50%, and cameras would fail.

Mice and keyboards use almost no bandwidth compared to even a USB2 root HUB. They're trivial. However, if you have other external devices, e.g., a USB3 external hard drive or network adapter, then it is possible you are approaching bandwidth limits.

I'm not sure on Windows how to look at the topology of USB devices, but if you booted to a Linux live DVD distribution (meaning it runs in RAM and does not need to be installed...they work with thumb drives too), then you could run this command and see the topology:
lsusb -t

You could see what devices are sharing that root HUB, and whether it is consuming too much bandwidth.

Also, if devices are not externally powered, then they draw power from the root HUB. There is a limit to how much power can be drawn (the limit goes up a lot if you use a powered external HUB). If all devices combined are reaching the power limits, then you might start getting device dropping out and the bus resetting. This would only matter if the devices are on the same root HUB and require the USB cable for power; mice and keyboards are insignificant relative to this much power, but external hard drives and cameras can consume a lot of power if shared on that bus.

What you might do is test putting your mouse on a different USB port. This does not necessarily mean it switches to a different root HUB, but if you get lucky, then you would solve the issue regardless of whether it is a power delivery issue or a bandwidth limitation. It's easy to test.

Incidentally, most USB devices use an interrupt to tell the driver to look at the device for new data. Someone mentioned reducing the polling rate, and if there were a case of the CPU not being able to handle so many interrupts, this would have helped. Seems like it isn't IRQ starvation though.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
You can learn much more about the connected USB devices via Powershell:

Get-PnpDevice -PresentOnly | Where-Object { $_.InstanceId -match '^USB' }

Cmdlet can be copy and pasted at the Powershell Prompt.

Reference:

https://winaero.com/how-to-find-and-list-connected-usb-devices-in-windows-10/

You can easily find other similar links.

Results from my PC:

PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> Get-PnpDevice -PresentOnly | Where-Object { $_.InstanceId -match '^USB' }

Status Class FriendlyName InstanceId
------ ----- ------------ ----------
OK USB Logitech USB Camera (Pro 9000) USB\VID_...
OK MEDIA Pro 9000 USB\VID_...
OK Image Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 USB\VID_...
OK DiskDrive ST1000DM 010-2EP102 USB Device USBSTOR\...
OK SCSIAdapter USB Attached SCSI (UAS) Mass Storage Device USB\VID_...
OK USB USB Root Hub (USB 3.0) USB\ROOT...
OK HIDClass Logitech Unifying USB receiver USB\VID_...
OK HIDClass USB Input Device USB\VID_...
OK HIDClass Logitech USB Input Device USB\VID_...
OK USB USB Mass Storage Device USB\VID_...
OK Bluetooth Qualcomm QCA9565 Bluetooth 4.0 USB\VID_...
Error USB Realtek USB 2.0 Card Reader USB\VID_...
OK USB USB Composite Device USB\VID_...


PS C:\WINDOWS\system32>


Note: above posting is copy/paste and lost some formatting. Actual results are nicely formatted.

Likely no need for other tools or utilities.
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

Include PSU: make model, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)? History of heavy gaming use?

Try the built in Windows troubleshooters.

Try "sfc /scannow" and "dism".

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

How to use DISM command tool to repair Windows 10 image | Windows Central

Take a look in Reliability History and Event Viewer. Either one or both may be capturing some error codes, warnings, or even informational events when the input problems occur. Errors or patterns of errors common to game playing times may be a clue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
GPU: MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Ventus 2X 8G OCV1 LHR
MOBO: MSI X570-A Pro
RAM: G.Skill RipJaws V 2x8GB DDR4-3600, CL16-16-16-36
Boot drive: 980 Pro 1 TB M.2 (i have a bunch more storage but i doubt that matters so ill save myself typing that all in)
PSU: Seasonic Prime TX-1000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all of the components are maybe 3 months old. I bought the components individually and put them together myself.
none of the components should have any bearing on my issue because ive been having said issue for about a year now, when i originally got the razer naga.
i tried sfc /scannow, found some errors but it didnt fix the issue. also tried DISM but it didnt find any issues to begin with.
Reliability History seems to not show anything relevant and i honestly dont know how to use event viewer so theres that.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Event Viewer does take more time and effort to navigate and understand.

FYI:

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-3128616/windows-event-viewer.html

= = = =

This:

"Boot drive: 980 Pro 1 TB M.2 (i have a bunch more storage but i doubt that matters so ill save myself typing that all in) "

Use "Disk Management" and expand the window to show all drives, etc..

Take a screenshot and post the screenshot here via imgur (www.imgur.com).

= = = =

Delve a bit deeper using Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer.

The objective being to discover some app or utility running in the background that consumes system resources or is otherwise present when the mouse goes "sticky". Use all three tools, but only one tool at a time. Again, doing that delving takes time and effort. No need to rush and be methodical.

Keep in mind that the culprit may be being launched at startup (via Task Manager) or later on via Task Scheduler.

Quite possible that some game or other utility slipped in some feature or function that is interferring with the system, the game, or the mouse.
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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One little clue that i happened to stumble upon is that the only two games that im having this issue with so far are unreal engine games. though one is UE4 (Deep Rock Galactic) and the other is UE5 (Dark and Darker).
i dont think i have any other unreal engine games to test against but ill keep looking into it.
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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i have a little update on the matter. I made a fresh windows install and tested the issue in deep rock galactic again and it seems to be gone, so that helps. so far so good. i eventually started migrating all my data onto that new install and while im not sure i think the point when the issue started cropping up again was when i imported the config files, which are stored locally and not with the cloud save, to restore my in game settings. ill be doing a little bit more testing but i think ive narrowed it down to the game being at fault after all.
though that doesnt explain why i was getting this exact same issue in dark and darker as well but no other game.
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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did some more testing and found something interesting but problematic.
firstly i found out that when playing the game on a fresh windows install, with nothing but current windows updates, steam, and the game itself plus the cloud save the issue would not happen.
then, when i carry over the config files the issue would appear again.
now i tried going back to my original windows install, uninstall the game and delete the entire folder in the steamapps folder for the game, forcing it to actually reinstall the game from scratch plus the cloud save, just like i did on the blank windows install.
curiously, even though the situation should now be the same, im now still getting the input issues.
i also still have no explanation for why this also happened in dark and darker.
ill keep looking into this
 

Bongert

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Jul 30, 2020
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alright, ive finally found the culprit. Its the software "LittleBigMouse" that is somehow causing the issue.
ive used that software for years and never had problems. and it wasnt some update either that broke it because its been abandonware since 2019. which also means theres not really any hope for it to get updated with a fix for my issue. i guess my only real solution now to have the best of both worlds is to just get a new matching monitor, because thats what ive used LittleBigMouse for before.