News Intel Announces Delay to 7nm Processors, Now One Year Behind Expectations

[InvalidError]

So Intel's 7nm production is delayed for 6-months for some parts (albeit not all as Ponte Vecchio is still on track). I don’t really see a problem. Because if they manage to finally get good yields on 10nm they should have no problem remaining competitive.

The problem with 10nm is that Intel tossed most plans to upgrade fabs to 10nm when it decided to fast-track 7nm after it became clear that it would not achieve its original performance and yield targets for 10nm until 10nm++, so there isn't much current nor planned 10nm fab capacity to go around.

The only way that spending more money on 10nm now would make sense when 7nm is expected to go into production before any new 10nm fab projects could come online is if 7nm went horribly wrong and internally expected to be delayed by multiple years just like 10nm was.

 

[techconc]

This is really bad for Intel. People need to realize that Intel was never more than a mediocre chip designer. For all these years, the only reason Intel was competitive with their competition was because they led in the manufacturing process. This compensated for their short coming in CPU design.

Now that Intel is hopelessly behind in the manufacturing process (and the problems continue), I’d expect them to start losing business. If nothing else, there should be a shift for many to AMD. It certainly seems clear why Apple jumped ship.

 

[JayNor]

did anyone notice that they powered up a petaflop GPU? Who else has a petaflop GPU?

 

[msroadkill612]

Intel announced that its 7nm process is one year behind its expectations, so its 7nm processors will be delayed.

Intel Announces Delay to 7nm Processors, Now One Year Behind Expectations : Read more

Maybe its just me, but intel does seem to be making announcements that dont assume we are all naive idiots quite so much.
It seems only recent that they have even admitted a fundamental 10nm problem. "no problem, just a few delays"

Its hard to trust a company so obviously in neurotic denial.

Ironically, maybe its a bright spot for them. You cant fix a problem you dont own.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

I wonder where Deicidium is hiding now? Surely he can spin Intel's announcement into something positive. 😉

 

[msroadkill612]

Intel announced that its 7nm process is one year behind its expectations, so its 7nm processors will be delayed.

Intel Announces Delay to 7nm Processors, Now One Year Behind Expectations : Read more

Node is an important detail, but Intel's biggest problem is architecture, which has an even grimmer catch up timeline.

intel's kludgy 28 core "me too" top cpu, cant compete w/ AMD's cheap to make and better 64 core cpuS at 10nm / 7nm either.

They have committed a catastrophic blunder in creating this opportunity .... taking their customers for granted, and ~hibernating for a decade.

 

[InvalidError]

Node is an important detail, but Intel's biggest problem is architecture, which has an even grimmer catch up timeline.

Intel is doing absolutely fine on architecture, it just does not have the fab process to actually manufacture its more advanced designs without severely compromising on clock frequency and power due to 3-4 years of unforeseen process delays and complications. Golden Cove should be more than a match for Zen 3 and maybe even Zen 4 architecture-wise, only problem is that Intel likely needs 7nm to work as intended for GC to deliver performance without breaking the die area and power budgets... and based on Intel's last four years along with this new 7nm slip, this is more easily said than done.

It is no different from AMD needing TSMC's 7nm to be on-target for Zen 2&3 to be feasible.

 

[RodroX]

No wonder why Apple left the boat... bet they knew this at least one month ago when they decided to kick intel out of their house.

 

[Jimbojan]

Intel's misfortune is not necessary AMD's gain. Intel's exec said it had gain market share on PC share, possibly on data center too.

 

[svan71]

Well all I can say is after decades of underhanded marketing schemes, unnecessary socket changes overpriced K's, numerous vulnerabilities and downright laziness intel is reaping what they have sewed.

 

[shady28]

Yikes! Intel bugged their 10nm process long enough to fall behind, despite probably having the best 14nm process around. Full control of process was Intel's superpower, going back to the CISC vs RISC wars of the 1980s-1990s. Kind of a shame... though I've had AMD in this horse-race for quite some time. But I pretty much always like the underdog!

Intel is the underdog now.

 

[shady28]

Intel's misfortune is not necessary AMD's gain. Intel's exec said it had gain market share on PC share, possibly on data center too.

They both gained revenue, the market expanded in size largely due to covid coinciding with a normal desktop/lifecycle event related to Windows 7 support ending.

Fact is Intel makes a lot more chips than AMD. If a big chunk of the market moved to AMD, they would not be able to keep up at all. So Intel is the natural winner anytime the market expands.

 

[nofanneeded]

No wonder why Apple left the boat... bet they knew this at least one month ago when they decided to kick intel out of their house.

Apple left all the X86 design altogether. has nothing to do with intel problems.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Not uncommon for companies is the USA to have CEOs from marketing. In Germany most CEOs come from R&D. The difference comes in how you want to make money. There are two different ways to do that, market an inferior product as amazing and hope people believe you or make a better product. The first focuses on short term profit over long term growth. The second is better in the long run. Not surprisingly CEOs from marketing focus on the first idea and those from R&D focus on the second.

There's a reason why I'm a fan of Lisa Su, she's a technical person first, business person second.

Are you serious?!

Brian Kraznich has been the worst CEO ever. He should have been kicked out earlier, better yet never have been CEO. Numerous accounts confirmed this.

What? You're twelve months behind yield targets so you're moving the release schedule back only 6 months? How does that work? Why would anyone believe you'll be able to make up six months on this schedule when you're 4 years and counting behind on 10nm? And what about what you said six months ago?

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/intel-return-2-2-5-year-process-cadence-2020-01/

So you were on schedule 6 months ago for 7nm, and then in 6 months you fell behind 12 months and are delaying 7nm? You knew 6 months ago when you made this bs claim that you were behind on 7nm and couldn't achieve this schedule. If I was an Intel investor, I'd be pretty pissed at Bob Swan about now.

I dunno, looking at how Bob Swan is running things, Brian Kraznich might not be the worst CEO ever.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I worked at Intel from the 8088 introduction until just before the Pentium introduction. This would never have happened with Andy Grove at the helm.

Maybe we should bring Andy Grove back!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Node is an important detail, but Intel's biggest problem is architecture, which has an even grimmer catch up timeline.

intel's kludgy 28 core "me too" top cpu, cant compete w/ AMD's cheap to make and better 64 core cpuS at 10nm / 7nm either.

They have committed a catastrophic blunder in creating this opportunity .... taking their customers for granted, and ~hibernating for a decade.

Intel is doing absolutely fine on architecture, it just does not have the fab process to actually manufacture its more advanced designs without severely compromising on clock frequency and power due to 3-4 years of unforeseen process delays and complications. Golden Cove should be more than a match for Zen 3 and maybe even Zen 4 architecture-wise, only problem is that Intel likely needs 7nm to work as intended for GC to deliver performance without breaking the die area and power budgets... and based on Intel's last four years along with this new 7nm slip, this is more easily said than done.

It is no different from AMD needing TSMC's 7nm to be on-target for Zen 2&3 to be feasible.

And Intel is betting alot of $$ on Foveros, and them mounting the RAM right above the Processing Cores seems to be the step too far. That's going to affect Thermals dramatically by having RAM and Storage right in the path towards the HeatSink/IHS.

If they removed the RAM & Storage and mounted it on the otherside of the PCB, I think there's a chance for significantly improved thermals. But until they make the decision to do that, there will be issues IMO.

 

[InvalidError]

And Intel is betting alot of $$ on Foveros, and them mounting the RAM right above the Processing Cores seems to be the step too far.

Nah, that is perfectly fine for mobile, embedded and industrial applications which I'm guessing are what the main markets for those super-integrated SoCs is going to be, quite similar to how things are with today's higher-end mobile devices.

 

[sstanic]

Turkish: What's happening with them sausages, Charlie?
Sausage Charlie: Five minutes, Turkish.
Turkish: [Stares at Charlie in disbelief] Hang on, it was two minutes, five minutes ago!

On a more serious note, they could just move to Switzerland, the flag would be a big plus..

 

[st379]

Intel is moving from 14nm+++++++ to 6+++++++ months.

 

[Chung Leong]

And Intel is betting alot of $$ on Foveros, and them mounting the RAM right above the Processing Cores seems to be the step too far. That's going to affect Thermals dramatically by having RAM and Storage right in the path towards the HeatSink/IHS.

Heat transfer from the compute dies to the POP memory above should be relatively small since it's through convection. Most of the thermal energy will travel through the micro bumps down to the substrate and from there to the enclosure.

 

[RodroX]

Apple left all the X86 design altogether. has nothing to do with intel problems.

Sure....

 

[Deicidium369]

A couple years ago when 10nm was slipping, Intel said the lessons it'll learn in pushing ahead with 10nm despite setbacks would be useful for pushing 7nm afterward. However, Intel still hasn't fully sorted 10nm out and I'm guessing that some of the lessons learned don't port over to 7nm quite as well as Intel hoped they would.

Looks like Intel may not have much for people to get excited about until 2022.

10nm seems pretty well sorted out - not sure what you read that indicates otherwise. 10nm Alder Lake will come a year after Rocket Lake - which would be out later this year - upto this point no release date had been posted for Alder Lake. Ice Lake SP is in production, and Tiger Lake later this year. Sounds sorted out to me - Ice Lake SP will have to be high volume - that is the meat and potatoes of the data center - and represents a pretty significant amount of Intel's continuing dominance in the data center.

I think the full EUV is causing issues - more complicated that a couple layers used by TSMC. Still, disappointed. Samsung is having EUV issues as well - even though they have been working with it for several years now - and TSMC likely faces the same issues moving forward.

 

[spongiemaster]

Sure....

Decisions like these are years in the making. This process certainly started well before Intel knew 7nm was having problems, so this announcement has nothing to do with Apple leaving x86. Apple customers don't care what CPU is in their system, as demonstrated by how many times Apple has changed architectures over the years. Apple's move to ARM is all about them having total control over their platform and better margins.

 

[Deicidium369]

I am not sure when you mentioned on par, what aspect are you implying? I feel from a density standpoint, 10nm was supposed to be better than TSMC's 7nm. But from a yield standpoint, I feel it is still quite far behind. While yield has improved from the first generation 10nm fab, it still does not look good. Which is why I feel Intel is keen to quickly move on to 7nm.

So you FEEL that it's a lower yield. Take it to Oprah.

Do you not realize how high volume Ice Lake SP will be? 2 socket, 128 PCIe4 lanes, and 8 channel DDR43200 ECC... 2 socket it about as mainstream as you can get for a datacenter product. Tiger Lake is not going to be as relatively niche as Ice Lake was - and if the leaks from Lenovo are correct, then all those gimmick AMD cores are going to be laid bare - 6% advantage in Windows for multi thread despite having twice the cores and twice the threads.

Yeah 7nm disappointing for sure - 1st product was to launch to coincide with Sapphire Rapids - and shrink of Alder Lake isn't even on the map as Alder Lake only yesterday got a launch date - about a year from now, a little less than a year after Rocket Lake.

 

[spongiemaster]

10nm seems pretty well sorted out

You must be living in an alternative reality from the rest of us. How is 10nm pretty well sorted out when we were supposed to see 10nm desktop CPU's in 2016, and midway through 2020, Intel has just announced we may (or may not) see the first chips in another year? It is impossible to give Intel even the remotest benefit of a doubt until they are selling competitive non-mobile 10nm CPU's. Let's not ignore that even in the mobile space, Intel's 10nm CPU's are not their flagship, top performing models. Those are still 14nm chips.

Intel currently sells zero 10nm CPU's to make us believe they have the node figured out yet.