News Intel CEO Argues for Largest Slice of $52bn US CHIPS Act Pie

[Sparky64]

Intel should get the biggest slice of CHIPS Act funding as it conducts its R&D in the US, reckons CEO Pat Gelsinger.

Intel CEO Argues for Largest Slice of $52bn US CHIPS Act Pie : Read more

Intel only serves itself while TSMC serves multiple companies. That is a huge difference. But the biggest problem Intel is facing is it is no longer the biggest dog in the game, AMD has gained a lot of ground, they are still not at Intel's level but they are growing.

 

[rluker5]

They should be required to pay fair wages to their workers and make sure c-suite salary is regulated relative to their mainline worker.

I'm pretty sure those that work at Intel wouldn't like that very much with an average pay of $190.940 (you can find it by clicking the question at the bottom) https://www.levels.fyi/companies/intel/salaries
I wish I made that much.

As for your other rules, you would 1. have to get international companies on board with them so they wouldn't just take advantage, and 2. have those in government know more than anybody in industry ever has to successfully know what will work out the best.
In the real world many things are too complicated to completely know how they work in practice and plans have to often be patched on an empirical basis, adjusted as things change, and have a degree of luck in order to work out for a company or industry. No one is smart enough to be perfect, some are just better than others, at times, on a relative basis.

Legislation done years prior to assist in fair play is completely inadequate and unnecessarily shackles some corporations while creating exploits for other companies to take advantage of. But if some actions are bad enough to be considered crimes then laws should be in place and enforced. Also if a company is threatening to exploit the general population with predatory pricing due to monopolistic practices, we do have the FTC for that.

 

[rluker5]

Intel only serves itself while TSMC serves multiple companies. That is a huge difference. But the biggest problem Intel is facing is it is no longer the biggest dog in the game, AMD has gained a lot of ground, they are still not at Intel's level but they are growing.

Intel is starting to serve other companies and they are actively trying to serve more. Fabbing for more customers is one of their main business development pushes. That is why they are building so many fabs.

Also AMD's market capitalization (dollar value) is 1.19 times as big as Intel's.

 

[bit_user]

Intel only serves itself while TSMC serves multiple companies. That is a huge difference.

This hasn't been true for a while. Intel is now operating its fabs as an independent business (called IFS - Intel Foundry Services) and has a wide range of customers across the semiconductor industry.

They're even partnering with potential adversaries like ARM:

Intel Foundry and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on Leading-Edge SoC Design

www.intc.com

But the biggest problem Intel is facing is it is no longer the biggest dog in the game,

By market share, it certainly is. TSMC is the leading fab, but Intel still dominates the market for thick client & server processors.

Also AMD's market capitalization (dollar value) is 1.19 times as big as Intel's.

Market Cap is only an indication of investors' willingness to bet on a company's future success. A comparison of their respective P/E ratios is far more sobering.

 

[wbfox]

Where's Darth Vadar when you need him? The Emperor is coming here, is less forgiving, you're a node or two behind, now here is some pain and fear to motivate you.

 

[giorgiog]

Intel does plenty or R&D elsewhere...for example Israel: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/jobs/locations/israel/sites.html

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel only serves itself while TSMC serves multiple companies. That is a huge difference. But the biggest problem Intel is facing is it is no longer the biggest dog in the game, AMD has gained a lot of ground, they are still not at Intel's level but they are growing.

They are at 80:20 which is a pretty normal average for the last 20 years.
And they had very low income for the last 4 quarters,
just because you see a lot of people CLAIMING that AMD is growing doesn't mean that they are telling the truth.

AMD and Intel CPU Market Share Report: Recovery on the Horizon (Updated)

Hope is on the horizon, mostly.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD Net Income 2010-2023 | AMD

AMD annual/quarterly net income history and growth rate from 2010 to 2023. Net income can be defined as company's net profit or loss after all revenues, income items, and expenses have been accounted for. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>AMD net income for the quarter ending...

www.macrotrends.net

Where's Darth Vadar when you need him? The Emperor is coming here, is less forgiving, you're a node or two behind, now here is some pain and fear to motivate you.

So just to have something to ask, which are the stats of a node and how far behind is either company in each one of them?!

 

[NeoMorpheus]

Given all of Intel's criminal past, nope, they should get less.

They're convicted monopolists, you can't trust them.

They need to split Intel's chip design & manufacturing arm into seperate companies before they should get a single cent.

I have to love blind patriotism.

You are right that they broke the law, they did many illegal things and were caught, but the patriots here are running wild with excuses on Intel behalf just because its an american company and the defenders are also americans.

By the way, i am also american, but i dont turn a blind eye to what its wrong or illegal.

 

[Pei-chen]

Intel could always do something about its diversity employees not as competitive as the Chinese and Koreans but I guess the extra money would go into different type of training

 

[kep55]

Intel should get the biggest slice of CHIPS Act funding as it conducts its R&D in the US, reckons CEO Pat Gelsinger.

Intel CEO Argues for Largest Slice of $52bn US CHIPS Act Pie : Read more

Intel is throwing off $15 Billion is cash. In no more needs government subsidies than the man in the moon.

 

[bit_user]

I have to love blind patriotism.

You are right that they broke the law, they did many illegal things and were caught, but the patriots here are running wild with excuses on Intel behalf just because its an american company and the defenders are also americans.

Speaking for myself, I'm looking at this as a pragmatist, not a patriot.

To be honest, I'd be equally happy if more fabs would locate in Canada, UK, Australia, or EU. Doesn't have to be the USA. However, one thing that benefits fabs is to have a geographically clustered ecosystem of suppliers. So, there's an economic advantage to having a critical mass of them in one country or region. That also brings workforce benefits among other things, since you build up a skilled labor pool that can move between different companies and suppliers.

 

[bit_user]

Intel is throwing off $15 Billion is cash. In no more needs government subsidies than the man in the moon.

Yes, but I was glad to see them recently cut dividends for the first time in 2-3 decades. Realistically, they can't go to zero, or there'd be a shareholder revolt.

I think Gelsinger also cut back on share buybacks, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ekio]

Just have a look at this ------ pourring himself a 100 million salary and putting all the money intel makes into shareholders hands, yet begging for money from american taxes to get funding…
Get screwed

EDITED BY MODERATOR.... How about we don't use special characters to get around the sites profanity rules/filters....

 

[TechieTwo]

You would think after being convicted for so many anti-trust violations that Intel should get no free lunch from any country. Instead tax payers get swindled some more.

 

[rluker5]

I have to love blind patriotism.

You are right that they broke the law, they did many illegal things and were caught, but the patriots here are running wild with excuses on Intel behalf just because its an american company and the defenders are also americans.

By the way, i am also american, but i dont turn a blind eye to what its wrong or illegal.

It might not be patriotism, but support of American manufacturing. It is in my case. I even work in manufacturing in the US. Making things people need and/or want is an important part of a healthy economy and society. It is good for any country.

And please name some of the "many illegal things" Intel was caught doing. My guess is you got this impression from people reiterating similar statements. If Intel is breaking the law they should be punished. If they just offend you, unfortunately that is a you issue.

 

[bit_user]

Just have a look at this a$$hole pourring himself a 100 million salary

That's highly inaccurate. His base pay is just $1.25 Mil. Most of the income for these execs is in the form of stock options, which ties their compensation to company performance (more or less).

Intel execs make small cut to their overall compensation after a disastrous quarter

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger will take a 25% base pay cut days after the company reported weak earnings, with executives down the line facing pay cuts as well.

www.cnbc.com

It's a very imperfect system, but it's not as if their direct salary is that high. I'm not a fan of current executive compensation practices, but one point in defense of it is that they tend to stay in the job for a very short time (I heard the average for CEOs of Fortune 500 companies is 15 months), and it's often a long time (if ever) before they find another job at a comparable level. In that sense, they're not so different than sports stars (who I think are also overpaid).

 

[NeoMorpheus]

..

 

[NeoMorpheus]

It might not be patriotism, but support of American manufacturing.

Nothing wrong with patriotism, but everything is wrong when its blind patriotism.
Example, not only ignoring the part that I said (turning a blind eye to their iligal actions) but now attacking me directly because I dared saying so.

It is in my case. I even work in manufacturing in the US. Making things people need and/or want is an important part of a healthy economy and society. It is good for any country.

You ignored the part where I said I am american but I dont approve or support dirty companies.

And please name some of the "many illegal things" Intel was caught doing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, are you seriously saying that?

The 10 Biggest Intel Lawsuits in Company History

The Intel Corporation is a tech business that is known throughout the world. It designs computer components and manufactures and sells them along with

lawyerinc.com

Dell to Pay $100 Million Settlement (Published 2010)

The Securities and Exchange Commission accused Dell of misleading investors by using money it had received from Intel to pad its quarterly earnings statements.

www.nytimes.com

Intel stuck with $1.45 billion fine in Europe for unfair and damaging practices against AMD

Intel will be paying the full $1.44B fine it owes the EU after losing its bid to overturn the action.

www.extremetech.com

My guess is you got this impression from people reiterating similar statements.

My guess is that you are deliberately ignoring the news because ...blind patriotism?

If Intel is breaking the law they should be punished.

Well, since the law only applies to us the plebs, they were "punished" with slap on the wrist and many, many settlements.

If they just offend you, unfortunately that is a you issue.

Perfect example of turning a blind eye+attacking the person credibility because...blind patriotism?

In the end, the excuses presented confirm my posts.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I have to love blind patriotism.

You are right that they broke the law, they did many illegal things and were caught, but the patriots here are running wild with excuses on Intel behalf just because its an american company and the defenders are also americans.

By the way, i am also american, but i dont turn a blind eye to what its wrong or illegal.

I'm Taiwanese American, so I'm more in favor of TSMC expanding into the US as much as possible.

I just think Arizona is a bad location, they should go to Oregon and be in Intel's backyard.

Speaking for myself, I'm looking at this as a pragmatist, not a patriot.

To be honest, I'd be equally happy if more fabs would locate in Canada, UK, Australia, or EU. Doesn't have to be the USA. However, one thing that benefits fabs is to have a geographically clustered ecosystem of suppliers. So, there's an economic advantage to having a critical mass of them in one country or region. That also brings workforce benefits among other things, since you build up a skilled labor pool that can move between different companies and suppliers.

The Supply chain doesn't want to move/leave China/South-East Asia due to cost of labor and existing Supply Chain base.

You would think after being convicted for so many anti-trust violations that Intel should get no free lunch from any country. Instead tax payers get swindled some more.

The PAC (Political Action Committe) and Lobby money to Washington DC is VERY powerful and influential.

Campaign financing money (DC's version of Legalized Bribery) is very much influencing things.

And please name some of the "many illegal things" Intel was caught doing.

Intel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spoiler: Intel - Anti-Competitive, Anti-Consumer, Anti-Technology

You ignored the part where I said I am american but I dont approve or support dirty companies.

Because of Intel's past monopolistic malfeasance, I refuse to support them ever again.

 

[TJ Hooker]

TSMC got the blessing of the US government to expand their operations in China just a few months ago.

In fact this whole "decoupling from China" story by the US administration, is completely contradictory to what is actually going on. Trade with China has never been higher, including in high-end technology.

The 1 year license seems to only apply to tools for older nodes.

"'The one-year US authorisation for tool imports into the Nanjing foundry that TSMC has received covers both the 28nm and 16nm,' Wendell Huang, chief financial officer at TSMC".

TSMC gets one-year reprieve from US restrictions on chip-making in China

The world’s most advanced chip fabrication company secured a one-year waiver to import chip-making equipment to its facility in Nanjing, avoiding immediate impact from new US export rules.

www.scmp.com

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That's highly inaccurate. His base pay is just $1.25 Mil. Most of the income for these execs is in the form of stock options, which ties their compensation to company performance (more or less).

​

Intel execs make small cut to their overall compensation after a disastrous quarter

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger will take a 25% base pay cut days after the company reported weak earnings, with executives down the line facing pay cuts as well.

www.cnbc.com

​

It's a very imperfect system, but it's not as if their direct salary is that high. I'm not a fan of current executive compensation practices, but one point in defense of it is that they tend to stay in the job for a very short time (I heard the average for CEOs of Fortune 500 companies is 15 months), and it's often a long time (if ever) before they find another job at a comparable level. In that sense, they're not so different than sports stars (who I think are also overpaid).

I concur that they're WAY over-paid.

They shouldn't get Stock as a form of income, period.

They should do the job because they were hired & paid to do it.

Paying with Stock as a form of compensation / loyalty insurance is BS and should be OUTLAWed.

If they want the company stock, they should have to buy it out of their own salary as a option.

 

[bit_user]

They shouldn't get Stock as a form of income, period.

I don't mind the concept of stock options, but you want them to vest after a long enough time period that the execs are incentivized to boost share price by adding lasting value to the company, not pumping it up at the expense of its long-term health.

The thing about a stock option is that it's only worth anything if the share price rises above the price from when it was issued.

 

[TerryLaze]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, are you seriously saying that?

You have to understand that the main function of a settlement is to settle a dispute and not to convict somebody, anything that gets settled is not and has never been illegal, it's only illegal if you get convicted for it.
Settlements are like some casual acquaintance telling you that you own them money, one company comes up with a reason why another company could possibly own them something and start a settlement to cash in.

https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/pdfs/corporate/amd-intel-settlement-agreement-full.pdf

The parties agreed that the settlement was intended solely as a compromiseof disputed claims, and was not to be understood as a concession or determination that either party has engaged in any wrongdoing.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't mind the concept of stock options, but you want them to vest after a long enough time period that the execs are incentivized to boost share price by adding lasting value to the company, not pumping it up at the expense of its long-term health.

The Option should be in the form of a "Purchase-able" Stock Option that the employee buys out of their own money.

Not because it was granted to them as a compensation package.

If I don't want stocks as a form of compensation, I should be granted straight up money.

No arguments about it from upper management.

As far as pump & dump, you need to make sure the vestment period should be incredibly long so that they can't do short Pump/Dump.

The thing about a stock option is that it's only worth anything if the share price rises above the price from when it was issued.

That requries them to do their job properly for "long Term gains".

 

[TJ Hooker]

The Option should be in the form of a "Purchase-able" Stock Option that the employee buys out of their own money.

Not because it was granted to them as a compensation package.

If I don't want stocks as a form of compensation, I should be granted straight up money.

Yes, that is how employee stock options work, the employee still needs to use their own money to exercise the option if they want to actually buy the stock. Or they they could just sell the option (I assume, based on how normal stock options work, although maybe there are extra regulations for employee stock options, particularly for executives).

Why exactly are you so opposed to stock-based compensation? What does it matter if the company pays the CEO $X in cash, or $X worth of equity (or $X worth of options)? I don't think the stock/options approach is inherently more favorable to the CEO (it has benefits, but also drawbacks).