News Intel CEO is "frustrated" with CHIPS Act payout progress — Intel has received $0 from the $8.5 billion that the US government promised

[RUSerious]

You’d rather subsidize shareholders you mean. That’s exactly what will happen if the government just hands over the money.

Well, that always happens either directly or indirectly. The way of the world sadly. That said, it does keep the jobs machine rolling as well in most cases. If Intel gets the money and starts a stock buyback in the next few years - I'd hope their C-Suite would be publicly flogged.

Intel has received 0 dollars thus far. $0. Why wasnt your comment flagged as derailing the conversation like mine was.

My lucky day I guess.

 

[tamalero]

Has any company received money through the CHIPS act or is it just some fraud with the gov keeping all of the money for themselves?

You mean the opposite?
So many companies becry "communism". Yet they keep getting pumped by government.
I would not be surprised if intel tries to push a comcast.. where they used the money to pump their stock, buy competitors, etc.. instead of actually doing proper building.

And now its even more sketchy considering the rumors that intel might spin their fabs.

 

[rluker5]

Well government cannot keep money for themselves since that is not how government funding works. It appears Intel has not provided anything on how it will use the funds, and Intel appears to want the cash to offset their losses which have nothing to do with building chips in the US. If Intel moves forward with a real plan , not just breaking ground, money will flow. No one wants a repeat of Foxcomm.

Intel's losses are from building fabs. They have most of the world's high NA machines being delivered to them. The CHIPS act is to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors. Nobody is even close to Intel on domestic research on and the manufacturing of semiconductors and they are spending so much on it that they are losing money hand over fist doing it and probably budgeted in some promised CHIPS act funds for their plans. If you want a repeat of Foxconn, just scuttle the aid that was promised and watch Intel run out of funds to continue the building spree.

You mean the opposite?
So many companies becry "communism". Yet they keep getting pumped by government.
I would not be surprised if intel tries to push a comcast.. where they used the money to pump their stock, buy competitors, etc.. instead of actually doing proper building.

And now its even more sketchy considering the rumors that intel might spin their fabs.

TSMC is a state entity. The largest shareholder is the Taiwan gov. It was started by them as well. Just do a wiki search. Samsung isn't much better. That's your free market. You want a free market, maybe it would be nice to have a modern military to be able to defend that freedom, and a modern economy that can support it. If the most likely large conflict occurs there won't be chips to support either should Intel stop making them. The western world will just have to do without.

And if there has been 0 pumping so far, as this article clearly states even in the title, what is this "keep getting pumped"? Are you from the future?

 

[TheHerald]

You mean the opposite?
So many companies becry "communism". Yet they keep getting pumped by government.
I would not be surprised if intel tries to push a comcast.. where they used the money to pump their stock, buy competitors, etc.. instead of actually doing proper building.

And now its even more sketchy considering the rumors that intel might spin their fabs.

They are not getting pumped by the government. The government is inncentivizing these companies to build domestically. Without the chips act, it would be cheaper for Intel to build them elsewhere. Don't be silly.

 

[jheithaus]

It’s sad. The company clearly bet a lot on working fabs. China blocked their tower acquisition, and the US government tricked them into capex. Now they are gone bankrupt. Way to go congress! I hope Jensen paid you off well, bc we will be back on AMD 22nm in 2035 per the PRC blockade of ROC.

 

[zypha]

Has any company received money through the CHIPS act or is it just some fraud with the gov keeping all of the money for themselves?

It's fair to question the progress of funding. But seeding distrust about government corruption without evidence is BS.

I don't work in this field, but I did some research on the Biden-Harris' Tribal Broadband Connectivity Program. There are documents the awardees need to file in order to receive the federal funds. And for projects as big and as resource-intensive as fabs, I'd guess they haven't cleared environmental reports with the state governments (Ohio, Arizona, and wherever else).

 

[rluker5]

It's fair to question the progress of funding. But seeding distrust about government corruption without evidence is BS.

I don't work in this field, but I did some research on the Biden-Harris' Tribal Broadband Connectivity Program. There are documents the awardees need to file in order to receive the federal funds. And for projects as big and as resource-intensive as fabs, I'd guess they haven't cleared environmental reports with the state governments (Ohio, Arizona, and wherever else).

Intel broke ground in 2021 for Arizona. Pretty sure they cleared environmental permits prior.
And I didn't think seeding mistrust about gov corruption was necessary anymore.

 

[Robbertson]

I'd think that it'd be pretty easy to understand that if someone says they'll give you $ to create US manufacturing jobs and you dump 15K+ people while your business is collapsing and you're trying to dump assets and entire product lines, after missing the AI and GPU booms...that they might change their minds about sending the check?

 

[rluker5]

I'd think that it'd be pretty easy to understand that if someone says they'll give you $ to create US manufacturing jobs and you dump 15K+ people while your business is collapsing and you're trying to dump assets and entire product lines, after missing the AI and GPU booms...that they might change their minds about sending the check?

That is the choice of no leading edge fabs in the western world. Just fyi. But hey, at least Americans can manage the making of hamburgers and shuffling of papers amiright? Just leave all of the fabbing to the Taiwan government. What could go wrong?

 

[Pigpig]

Intel is US company, us gov no pay to us company as promised I don’t care, but tsmc is Taiwan company,us gov should pay as promised! Same as Samsung too, US gov should pay to samsung as promised, until now all fund is 0, this is a shame

 

[phead128]

Genius public policy. Intel dies (maybe) and almost all our chips come from Taiwan. China decides to invade Taiwan, as Xi has promised, and TSMC is largely destroyed in the process. What do you suppose we do then? The market doesn't protect Americans against future disasters - that's what politicians (gov't) are for.

If the world were a fair place, you'd have a point. But it decidedly isn't fair or friendly.

The problem with this argument is that Intel currently outsources to Taiwan TSMC (which is allegedly a geopolitical risk). Only gullible US politicians will fall for this age old trick.

 

[phead128]

The fact that Intel is outsourcing >30% of manufacturing (including 20A nodes) to Taiwan TSMC really proves the "geopolitical risk" is exaggerated to get free taxpayer money. Intel just wants to have its cake and eat it.

 

[BFG-9000]

I don't see why anybody is surprised, as it's only been two years.

Two years after the "Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act" included $7.5 billion to build 500,000 public EV charging stations, exactly zero were built. In the half year after that, 8 stations came online so at that rate it will only take 31,000 years to build the rest of them.

 

[RUSerious]

The problem with this argument is that Intel currently outsources to Taiwan TSMC (which is allegedly a geopolitical risk). Only gullible US politicians will fall for this age old trick.

The fact that Intel is outsourcing >30% of manufacturing (including 20A nodes) to Taiwan TSMC really proves the "geopolitical risk" is exaggerated to get free taxpayer money. Intel just wants to have its cake and eat it.

It's still a geopolitical risk. Intel just had no reasonable alternative to get Arrow Lake to market with it's own fabs. All of AMD's chips are already made at TSMC. Taiwan considers semiconductors to be a 'silicon shield' that helps protect it from China, in part, by having the US dependent on it to the degree that we are even more incentivized to send Naval support to protect Taiwan against a Chinese attack.

 

[RUSerious]

I don't see why anybody is surprised, as it's only been two years.

Two years after the "Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act" included $7.5 billion to build 500,000 public EV charging stations, exactly zero were built. In the half year after that, 8 stations came online so at that rate it will only take 31,000 years to build the rest of them.

Yeah, government infrastructure projects have a lot of hoops that must be jumped through to get the ball rolling. The EV charging stations will be built out at a faster rate once all the planning is done (which includes beefing up power transmission lines in key areas).

Intel, unfortunately, can ill afford to wait. They need to new fabs to gain customers, customers want the fabs operational before committing to a deal. Real chicken and egg problem.

 

[tamalero]

Intel's losses are from building fabs. They have most of the world's high NA machines being delivered to them. The CHIPS act is to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors. Nobody is even close to Intel on domestic research on and the manufacturing of semiconductors and they are spending so much on it that they are losing money hand over fist doing it and probably budgeted in some promised CHIPS act funds for their plans. If you want a repeat of Foxconn, just scuttle the aid that was promised and watch Intel run out of funds to continue the building spree.

TSMC is a state entity. The largest shareholder is the Taiwan gov. It was started by them as well. Just do a wiki search. Samsung isn't much better. That's your free market. You want a free market, maybe it would be nice to have a modern military to be able to defend that freedom, and a modern economy that can support it. If the most likely large conflict occurs there won't be chips to support either should Intel stop making them. The western world will just have to do without.

And if there has been 0 pumping so far, as this article clearly states even in the title, what is this "keep getting pumped"? Are you from the future?

I guess its hard to broaden your horizons than specifically just fixated on the chip fab building thing.
I was talking about other cases of pumping money while getting worse results. Aka the Foxcon fiasco, the many cases of Amazon warehouses.. and Comcast supposed ¨funds to improve network speeds"which went to them buying their competitors and stock buy backs.

They are not getting pumped by the government. The government is inncentivizing these companies to build domestically. Without the chips act, it would be cheaper for Intel to build them elsewhere. Don't be silly.

That is literally pumping. They are giving money to make a thing the companies should be doing by themselves.

We are going into another dystopian gilded age thanks to workes eroded rights, insatiable greed by shareholders and executives and the conformism of political groups blinded by lobbyism.

 

[tamalero]

The problem with this argument is that Intel currently outsources to Taiwan TSMC (which is allegedly a geopolitical risk). Only gullible US politicians will fall for this age old trick.

This.. for companies, they do not care about ¨geopolitical risk". It s all the money, they do not gave a crap when materials were extracted in africa by slave labour.. they didnt care about moving production to China.

 

[phead128]

It's still a geopolitical risk. Intel just had no reasonable alternative to get Arrow Lake to market with it's own fabs.

Intel: Taiwan can be conquered at any minute.

Also Intel: Taiwan TSMC is going to manufacture 100% of Arrow Lake 20A processors for me, money press goes brrrrrrr

Also Intel: where is my CHIPS ACT money?? Without it, I'm going to outsource MORE to risky Taiwan!

Only gullible US politicians would fall for this fearmongering. Kudo to Commerce Dept holding Intel to the fire and not blindly distributing taxpayer dollars.

 

[RUSerious]

Intel: Taiwan can be conquered at any minute.

Also Intel: Taiwan TSMC is going to manufacture 100% of Arrow Lake 20A processors for me, money press goes brrrrrrr

Also Intel: where is my CHIPS ACT money?? Without it, I'm going to outsource MORE to risky Taiwan!

Only gullible US politicians would fall for this fearmongering.

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion. I've been following US-China-Taiwan relations for years, and I've given my opinion. Are Gelsinger and his supporters pushing too much on this point - probably. Desperation leads one to find any justification possible.

FWIW, I am very happy to give CHIPs $$s to Taiwanese and Korean chip makers for fabs that they build in the US. Hopefully TSMC will eventually produce node N here in the US in some reasonable quantity and not just n-1 and n-2. Though we won't offer and financial assistance, European TSMC fabs are also more secure for the west and welcomed.

 

[rluker5]

I guess its hard to broaden your horizons than specifically just fixated on the chip fab building thing.
I was talking about other cases of pumping money while getting worse results. Aka the Foxcon fiasco, the many cases of Amazon warehouses.. and Comcast supposed ¨funds to improve network speeds"which went to them buying their competitors and stock buy backs.

I'm just staying on the topic of the article. But Intel is building the fabs. So it doesn't match any of your bad company examples. Also Foxconn in WI didn't get any state money because they didn't meet the milestones.

 

[phead128]

I'm just staying on the topic of the article. But Intel is building the fabs. So it doesn't match any of your bad company examples. Also Foxconn in WI didn't get any state money because they didn't meet the milestones.

That's not saying much since shells of fab facilities are relatively cheap to build, but it's the equipment, particularly EUV lithography, scanners, other equipment which is the most expensive parts.

As echo-ed by former US commerce secretary:

Caitlin Legacki, a former Commerce Department official, said there also was a fear that “Intel is going to take chips money, build an empty shell of a factory and then never actually open it, because they don’t have customers.” This is why the program was designed to withhold payments until companies hit certain milestones, she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/us/politics/intel-chips-biden.html

So basically US gov't fears a bunch of empty shell of a factory that never actually opens because they don't have major customers (most likely IFS spins off as separate entity for max shareholder value, taxpayer money screwed), hence withholding payments until milestones are met.

 

[plutarchheavensbee62]

Has any company received money through the CHIPS act or is it just some fraud with the gov keeping all of the money for themselves?

They wont qualify for the chips act money until they lay off a bunch of staff and hire a more diverse workforce. Its written right into one of the subcategories of requirements for the chips act money.

 

[plutarchheavensbee62]

Well government cannot keep money for themselves since that is not how government funding works. It appears Intel has not provided anything on how it will use the funds, and Intel appears to want the cash to offset their losses which have nothing to do with building chips in the US. If Intel moves forward with a real plan , not just breaking ground, money will flow. No one wants a repeat of Foxcomm.

That is fundamentally false. Instead of making stuff up, why dont you actually look into it. They are in debt because they started building a new production site in Ohio that was supposed to be funded with the chip act money. In addition, they are making several enhancements to their Rio Rancho location to start mainstream production of processors immediately. In addition to a new factory in Arizona and an additonal arm in Ronler, OR. in addition, their production facility in Germany. With all of this expansion they are also trying to get their foundry business profitable and the SEC out of the blue decided it needs to be on their balance sheets. Maybe, i dont know, research a topic before opening your face.

 

[TheHerald]

That is literally pumping. They are giving money to make a thing the companies should be doing by themselves.

We are going into another dystopian gilded age thanks to workes eroded rights, insatiable greed by shareholders and executives and the conformism of political groups blinded by lobbyism.

But why would a company pay more money to do in the US than anywhere else on the world?

Are you only buying products made in US and pay 3 times the prices? Clothing etc. (Cause I am btw, but im not gonna blame anyone who isn't.)

 

[TheHerald]

This.. for companies, they do not care about ¨geopolitical risk". It s all the money, they do not gave a crap when materials were extracted in africa by slave labour.. they didnt care about moving production to China.

And neither does the consumer. So why would companies be different?