Intel Coffee Lake (8th & 9th Gen Core CPUs) + Skylake-X Refresh & W-3175X MegaThread! FAQ and Resources

[goldstone77]

Spoiler

Early pre-review

https://videocardz.com/72976/intel-core-i7-8700k-official-performance

Numbers look promising.

Wonder what z390 will bring over z370.

From my understanding, mainstream 8C/16T CPUs. A leak seems to confirm as much.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/eurocom_rep_states_that_intel_s_x390_chipset_will_support_8c_16th_cpus/1

AMD seems to have lite a fire under a giant. About time we start to see competition and performance come back to the market. I wish Intel would stop the new chipset every/everyother CPU launch game but they have been banging that drum for as long as I can remember.

I'm curious as to what AMD will fireback with when Cannonlake/icelake (whatever it's gona be for x390) does appear with those 8/16 core CPUs.

Well, right now we expect 12nm(~2h 2018), which looks like a 14nm+ refresh. 15% more density(transistors), and >10% performance. More transistors means better IPC. Based on there 14nm frequency restrictions hard to say how much clock speed will raise until we know more about the improvements. Beyond that we have 7nm(1h 2019), which is what we hope is going to be a great node that offers >40% performance or >60% power reduction over the current 14nm Zen. TSMC is releasing 7nm this year, and is similar to Intel's 10nm. Samsung is an early adopter of EUV, and has the most aggressive node map, and at some point may play a roll in all this with 7n 2018, 6-5nm 2019, and 4nm 2020. AMD is tied to GlobalFoundries, but at an expense can move to another foundry until the contract ends in 2020. Rumor of AMD involvement with helping create A.I. for Tesla coincide with the choice of GlobalFoundries 12nm, which from a consumer desktop CPU vantage point doesn't look all that great compared to Intel's offerings. Never the less it's an exciting time for technology, and I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

The up to 15% more density and more than 10% performance marketing claims are using TSMC 16nm as baseline,. Glofo doesn't use its current 14nm node as baseline, because the increases that 12LP bring are minimal. 12LP is a marketing name. AMD will be lucky if gets 5% higher clocks with Pinnacle Ridge.

The IPC is the same. Pinnacle Ridge has the same IPC than Summit Ridge. Only clocks change.

7nm Glofo is expected in 2019, but there is no confirmation it is coming int he first half. The claims of >40% performance or >60% power reduction over the current 14nm Zen are idealized claims based in a single-transistor measurement at optimal points. Real-life improvements will be smaller. AMD products will get only a fraction of those percentages.

What changes are being made to Zen 14nm that will enable them to increase the frequency? And how do these changes allow for the Automotive Grade 2 qualification?

The 12LP process is expected to meet Automotive Grade 2 qualification next quarter, which under AEC-Q100 means it will operate at temperatures between -40°C and +105°C, and it is being targeted for transceivers in 6GHz wireless networks.

 

[juanrga]

What changes are being made to Zen 14nm that will enable them to increase the frequency?

No change in the microarchitecture. PinnacleRidge uses the same Zen muarch than SummitRidge. 14nm+ is simply a more mature process lowering the voltages and allowing to get slightly higher clocks in the same power.

 

[goldstone77]

What changes are being made to Zen 14nm that will enable them to increase the frequency?

No change in the microarchitecture. PinnacleRidge uses the same Zen muarch than SummitRidge. 14nm+ is simply a more mature process lowering the voltages and allowing to get slightly higher clocks in the same power.

And how do these changes allow for the Automotive Grade 2 qualification?

The 12LP process is expected to meet Automotive Grade 2 qualification next quarter, which under AEC-Q100 means it will operate at temperatures between -40°C and +105°C, and it is being targeted for transceivers in 6GHz wireless networks.

 

[TechyInAZ]

I do hope the new 12nm is optimized enough so that it brings way higher clock speeds. Even if AMD just did that one simple thing, just increasing core clocks to match coffee lake, it would win in nearly everything hands down.

 

[Hellfire13]

The Ryzen 1600@$195.89 still offers the better value compared to the 1600X, and comes with a CPU cooler. And would match up against the Core i5-8600K@$257, and be just above the Core i5-8400@$182.

Not even close. And the upcoming benchmarks will prove that.

 

[goldstone77]

The Ryzen 1600@$195.89 still offers the better value compared to the 1600X, and comes with a CPU cooler. And would match up against the Core i5-8600K@$257, and be just above the Core i5-8400@$182.

Not even close. And the upcoming benchmarks will prove that.

Maybe, the wording was misleading.

The Ryzen 1600@$195.89 still offers the better value compared to the 1600X, and comes with a CPU cooler.

Essentially, the same processor capable of reaching the same frequency, and the 1600 is cheaper and comes with a CPU cooler.

And would match up against the Core i5-8600K@$257, and be just above the Core i5-8400@$182.

Price wise and in multithreading the 1600@$195.89 matches up very well compared to the new 6 core 6 thread i5's, and will beat them in multi-threading performance. Of course the new 6 cores are showing strong single thread performance, and the i5-8600K will likely be choice of many gamers.

 

[rob.salewytsch]

Considering I was about to buy an R7-1700 or an R5-1600x (bc I am afraid to OC), I may now have to wait and see if that i5-8600k wins in benchmarks.

Call me old-fashioned but I like when there was a clear winner. Made it easier to make a purchase when you know as little as I do.

 

[ibjeepr]

Considering I was about to buy an R7-1700 or an R5-1600x (bc I am afraid to OC), I may now have to wait and see if that i5-8600k wins in benchmarks.

Call me old-fashioned but I like when there was a clear winner. Made it easier to make a purchase when you know as little as I do.

If you want a clear winner you'll need a clear definition of what you want it to win at. I'm currently waiting for the 8600k benchmarks as well but really just for gaming. If you are looking for heavily multi-threaded programs Ryzen probably still has the edge. I'm thinking for gaming 6 cores on a ring bus should be a clear winner and 6 cores should be enough for gaming for a few years. While a few current games do like Ryzen's more threads I don't expect that to be a major factor.

 

[weberdarren97]

So even after Ryzen caught Intel with their pants down, they're still making us pay a premium for an unlocked multiplier?

Basic vs XFR Ryzen I can agree with because that's binning. Now if the regular ones weren't unlocked, I think I'd be a bit more irritated. How does Intel think that they're still top dog when this is their sales strategy?

That aside, have we heard about the thermal material they're using? Still just crappy paste?

 

[goldstone77]

No, Coffee Lake Will Not Run In Z270 Motherboards (And Here’s Why)
by Paul Alcorn September 27, 2017 at 2:15 PM

Coffee Lake hasn't officially arrived, but Intel has confirmed enthusiasts' fears and information we ferreted out from public statements from motherboard vendors: The processors will not be backward compatible with the Z270 or Z170 chipsets. The forced move to the Z370 platform, even though Coffee Lake processors drop into the physically identical LGA1551 socket found on previous-generation motherboards, stands in stark contrast to AMD's Socket AM4 strategy, which the company will support with all new processors until 2020. AMD announced AM4 last September, and it also supports AMD's 7th-generation Bristol Ridge (the Carrizo-based APU).
Kaby Lake processors brought most of the iterative improvements over Skylake that we've come to expect, but you could purchase one of the new fancy processors and slap it into an existing Z170 motherboard and enjoy the increased performance with a minimal investment, albeit after a BIOS update.

In contrast, Coffee Lake offers Intel's biggest generational performance leap we've seen in years, if the company's claims hold true. Suddenly we have quad-core i3s and hexa-core i5s and i7s, breaking Intel's insistence upon merely offering slightly increased clock speeds (and perhaps improved integrated graphics) for its gen-on-gen releases. Of course, there will be a slight price increase associated with the step up to more cores, but the ability to drop a new processor into the Z270 motherboard you bought eight months ago (at the earliest) would be nice.
But Intel isn't providing backward compatibility with either of the older LGA1151 motherboards (Z170 and Z270) and, curiously, your only upgrade path through the end of the year comes in the form of pricey Z370 motherboards—value-oriented B350 or H370 motherboards will not debut until next year.

Intel provided a few technical reasons for the lack of backward compatibility, with the requirement for an improved power delivery subsystem being one of the most important. We know that the existing Z270 motherboards can provide enough power to push quad-core processors, as we see now with the Coffee Lake Core i3 processors, but Intel noted that the additional two cores proffered on the i5 and i7 would require more power.
Although TDP isn't a direct measurement of power consumption, it is a decent indicator. The Coffee Lake i7-8700K weighs in with a TDP of 95W compared to Kaby Lake i7-7700K's 91W rating. A small increase, sure, but we could see larger deltas during overclocking. Intel says it improved the package power delivery to offset the increased overclocking power requirements for the six-core models, and we will certainly quantify the difference in package power draw during our review. The Coffee Lake processors also support per-core overclocking, a feature that wasn't included in the Kaby Lake era, but they still don't allow for fine-grained per-core voltage or P-State settings.Intel noted that the Z370 motherboards have improved memory routing to support DDR4-2666, a slight increase over Kaby Lake's DDR4-2400. Existing Kaby Lake motherboards easily support memory overclocking well beyond DDR4-2666, as any overclocker can attest, but Intel also says it has baked other improvements into Coffee Lake processors. Intel expanded the memory multipliers to support up to 8400 MT/s and added a real-time memory latency control feature.
Whether the existing Z270 motherboards, many of which offer beefy power delivery, could potentially satisfy the needs of the Coffee Lake processors will be a hot-button debate for some time to come. We've requested additional details from Intel regarding the socket and pin-out, but we await further details.
The 300-series chipset doesn't offer any new features; even the TDP remains the same, which suggests the 300-series chipset is merely a Z270 refresh. Outside of new LED functionality or other third-party additions, there would be little reason to upgrade a Kaby Lake system to a newer motherboard, but the option would be nice. However, Kaby Lake processors will also not work on 300-series motherboards. Intel indicated the decision to eliminate Kaby Lake compatibility was due, at least in part, to requests from motherboard vendors that the company make a "clean split." For motherboard vendors, this removes the burden of adding support for Kaby Lake (and the requisite validation) during a time when most motherboard vendors are already stretched to their engineering resource limits due to rapid fire Intel and AMD launches.
The requirement for a new chipset also comes hot on the heels of rumors that Intel will have Z390 motherboards coming to market next year that support eight-core processors. Even though the similar naming convention would lead us to believe Z390 motherboards will work with Coffee Lake chips, it's hard to speculate until we know more. Intel is placing the Kaby Lake refresh, Coffee Lake, and Cannon Lake processors under the 8th-generation umbrella, so it's possible the Z390 motherboard will support Cannon Lake processors. Will Z370 motherboards support Cannon Lake processors? That's anyone's guess.

The staggered 300-series roll out (there won't be any H370 or B350 motherboards available until next year) also means that enthusiasts interested in Intel's locked Coffee Lake models will still have to pay extra for Z370 motherboards that support overclocking.
There has been plenty of speculation that Intel's Coffee Lake lineup is a direct reaction to AMD's Ryzen processors, but given the extended nature of processor development, the processors have likely been in the works for several years. While Coffee Lake may not be a knee-jerk reaction, the fact that Intel doesn't have the full lineup of motherboard options at launch certainly makes it appear the company pulled the timeline in significantly.

 

[juanrga]

This part in the OP "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon." is wrong.

 

[minigaming]

What's the chance of someone hacking a z270 bios to allow coffee lake processors? 0?

 

[goldstone77]

What's the chance of someone hacking a z270 bios to allow coffee lake processors? 0?

Gamer's Nexus talked briefly about it. Earlier engineering boards for Z270 did support inter-compatibility.

Click here for link

 

[minigaming]

What's the chance of someone hacking a z270 bios to allow coffee lake processors? 0?

Gamer's Nexus talked briefly about it. Earlier engineering boards for Z270 did support inter-compatibility.

Click here for link

Thanks. Hopefully someone can make a bios update for my Gigabyte Aorus Z270X-Gaming 7 motherboard so I can upgrade the 7700k to the 8700k. There is no way this board isn't capable of the power delivery needs claimed by intel. Otherwise I'll just stay with the 7700k for a while longer.

 

[TechyInAZ]

What's the chance of someone hacking a z270 bios to allow coffee lake processors? 0?

Gamer's Nexus talked briefly about it. Earlier engineering boards for Z270 did support inter-compatibility.

Click here for link

Thanks. Hopefully someone can make a bios update for my Gigabyte Aorus Z270X-Gaming 7 motherboard so I can upgrade the 7700k to the 8700k. There is no way this board isn't capable of the power delivery needs claimed by intel. Otherwise I'll just stay with the 7700k for a while longer.

Depends. We don't know all the details of the new VRMs and stuff like that. I'm guessing yeah most high high end z270 boards should, but maybe there's one or two things that insure incompatibility.

 

[juanrga]

I will say this a second time: the next quote in the OP "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon." is wrong. There is no 7nm AMD chips next year. Please any mod edit the OP.

 

[goldstone77]

I will say this a second time: the next quote in the OP "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon." is wrong. There is no 7nm AMD chips next year. Please any mod edit the OP.

GLOBALFOUNDRIES is Hitting on all Cylinders
by Scotten Jones
Published on 09-28-2017 05:00 PM

7LP (Leading performance) is GF's leading edge 7nm FinFET process. Whereas GF licensed Samsung's FinFET process at 14nm, at 7nm GF is developing their own process. Device performance at 7nm is >40% better than at 14nm and total power is >60% lower than 14nm. 7nm will provide 17 million gates/mm2 and a 30% die cost reduction versus 14nm with a >45% cost reduction for target segments. The PDK is available now and risk production is on track for the first half of 2018. Figure 3 presents the 7LP platform.

 

[juanrga]

First review of CoffeeLake

https://www.techpowerup.com/237434/core-i7-8700k-reviewed-by-lab501

My former thoughts about CB15 score confirmed:

1262 isn't the score for the i7-7800k. The real score will be close to 1500. Also expereview is not strictly testing at stock settings, memory is underclocked on CoffeeLake.

i7-7800k does 1520 points on stock settings.

Resume of the review: 6C 7800k wins to the 8C 1800X on most multithreaded workloads and when loses, as in CineBench or POV-Ray does by a very small margin. CoffeeLake is so fast in single thread and less threaded benches that would be illegal.

 

[juanrga]

One thing is when Glofo plans to start risk production of the 7nm node. Another thing is when volume production will be ready and still another thing is when AMD will release a 7nm product. The updated AMD roadmap is available in many sites and forums. It is also available in this thread. AMD 7nm CPUs are coming in 2019, not next year. Please some mod edit the OP and removes the next incorrect information: "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon."

 

[Hellfire13]

A nice comparison by Paul... http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-coffee-lake-kaby-lake,35549.html

 

[-Fran-]

First review of CoffeeLake

https://www.techpowerup.com/237434/core-i7-8700k-reviewed-by-lab501

My former thoughts about CB15 score confirmed:

1262 isn't the score for the i7-7800k. The real score will be close to 1500. Also expereview is not strictly testing at stock settings, memory is underclocked on CoffeeLake.

i7-7800k does 1520 points on stock settings.

Resume of the review: 6C 7800k wins to the 8C 1800X on most multithreaded workloads and when loses, as in CineBench or POV-Ray does by a very small margin. CoffeeLake is so fast in single thread and less threaded benches that would be illegal.

Don't forget the salt, since those are not using official samples nor official release CPUs.

Still positive none the less.

Cheers!

 

[goldstone77]

One thing is when Glofo plans to start risk production of the 7nm node. Another thing is when volume production will be ready and still another thing is when AMD will release a 7nm product. The updated AMD roadmap is available in many sites and forums. It is also available in this thread. AMD 7nm CPUs are coming in 2019, not next year. Please some mod edit the OP and removes the next incorrect information: "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon."

I agree the current map suggests AMD plans 2019 for 7nm. How long after risk production would you say a full ramp up in production take without any problems? 2H2018?

 

[TechyInAZ]

I will say this a second time: the next quote in the OP "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon." is wrong. There is no 7nm AMD chips next year. Please any mod edit the OP.

Sorry, fixed. Thanks for that.

 

[-Fran-]

One thing is when Glofo plans to start risk production of the 7nm node. Another thing is when volume production will be ready and still another thing is when AMD will release a 7nm product. The updated AMD roadmap is available in many sites and forums. It is also available in this thread. AMD 7nm CPUs are coming in 2019, not next year. Please some mod edit the OP and removes the next incorrect information: "The good news is AMD will be launching new CPUs on the 7nm process by next year, so hopefully we’ll see a big jump in performance soon."

I agree the current map suggests AMD plans 2019 for 7nm. How long after risk production would you say a full ramp up in production take without any problems? 2H2018?

Track record goes, unfortunately, against that being the case or even giving them the benefit of the doubt to be the case. I would most definitely be impressed if they do push forward the dates, but I won't expect it in the least.

For now, officially unless they update it, it's 2019.

Cheers!

 

[manleysteele]

What's the chance of someone hacking a z270 bios to allow coffee lake processors? 0?

Gamer's Nexus talked briefly about it. Earlier engineering boards for Z270 did support inter-compatibility.

Click here for link

Thanks. Hopefully someone can make a bios update for my Gigabyte Aorus Z270X-Gaming 7 motherboard so I can upgrade the 7700k to the 8700k. There is no way this board isn't capable of the power delivery needs claimed by intel. Otherwise I'll just stay with the 7700k for a while longer.

The chances of doing it successfully are zero. The pin configurations are different, Socket 1150 had 46 reserved pins. Socket 1150v2 has, I believe, 21 reserved pins. Not only are their 25 newly activated pins, but many of the other pin locations/functions have been changed. If you install a Coffee Lake S processor into a Socket 1151, it will probably be fried. The best thing that can happen is it simply won't work. The reverse is also true. Do not be the one who attempts it.

Intel has gone out of their way, again and again, to explain this. Why so many people can't understand is a complete mystery to me.