News Intel Confirms Meteor Lake Comes to Desktops Next Year

[Admin]

Intel confirms that Meteor Lake is coming to desktops; it just does not see which kind of desktops.

Intel Confirms Meteor Lake Comes to Desktops Next Year : Read more

 

[Greg7579]

I'm confused. I was going to build next month with 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh because for months we have been saying that Meteor Lake was laptop only, and that the big generational change for desktops would be Arrow Lake probably about a year from now. So we get Raptor Lake Refresh now, them Meteor Lake a few months from now and then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that?
Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?
Maybe I should not build now with Raptor Lake Refresh. Man oh Man! Why spend 5 grand building a top end PC now when two major upgrades are coming in the next few months - Meteor Lake (which we thought was laptop only) and Arrow Lake as generational-level improvements to Raptor Lake.
Raptor Lake is on the tail end of old tech and Meteor Lake will have a new socket and chipset with completely new generational change level motherboards. Then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that which is a generational change. Why build now with top-end Raptor Lake stuff? It made sense since Arrow Lake was a year away. But now we have Meteor Lake for the Desktop staring us in the face.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

I'm confused. I was going to build next month with 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh because for months we have been saying that Meteor Lake was laptop only, and that the big generational change for desktops would be Arrow Lake probably about a year from now. So we get Raptor Lake Refresh now, them Meteor Lake a few months from now and then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that?
Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?
Maybe I should not build now with Raptor Lake Refresh. Man oh Man! Why spend 5 grand building a top end PC now when two major upgrades are coming in the next few months - Meteor Lake (which we thought was laptop only) and Arrow Lake as generational-level improvements to Raptor Lake.
Raptor Lake is on the tail end of old tech and Meteor Lake will have a new socket and chipset with completely new generational change level motherboards. Then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that which is a generational change. Why build now with top-end Raptor Lake stuff? It made sense since Arrow Lake was a year away. But now we have Meteor Lake for the Desktop staring us in the face.

Sing it loud!

Confusing, yes!

 

[Li Ken-un]

Three major high-end chip generations

That count really hinges on the definition of “major.” Did Intel really make significant changes—say… to Raptor Lake Refresh?

Time will tell with the eventual release of reviews and benchmarks.

 

[peachpuff]

Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?

Pffft no, we get raptor lake+ with 200mhz bump, arrow lake and arrow lake+ with 200mhz bump.

 

[Amdlova]

I'am waiting the 14700 these new shine tech... don't look good for me. Will have a cpu for all kind of work.

 

[baboma]

>Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?
Maybe I should not build now with Raptor Lake Refresh. Man oh Man! Why spend 5 grand building a top end PC now when two major upgrades are coming in the next few months

Your timeline is too optimistic. All the above will be spaced out into annual releases, so Raptor Lake Refresh in Dec '23, Meteor Lake desktop in '24, and Arrow Lake (which we know nothing about) in '25. That's if the releases hold to the timeline. Rule of thumb is that they will probably slip, just like Meteor Lake did.

As for building now or later, that depends on the purpose of your build. From what was said from the Intel blurb, the main MTL (Core Ultra) draw will be a built-in NPU, and improved iGPU. Perf improvement wasn't mentioned, so I imagine there'll be some, but perf bump will be incremental, not substantial. Again, emphasis will be on NPU (for AI), and iGPU. Read: If your build is for high-end gaming specifically, MTL won't matter for you.

NPU will have an increasing role, as Windows 12 coming next year will lean on AI for Microsoft's CoPilot (basically Bing Chat for all of Windows features). All signs are that MS will increasingly deploy AI into all of MS' services going forward, as that will be the main draw. The announced Surface device will reportedly have a discrete NPU chip, because MTL wasn't ready.

Amazon has announced generative AI will be key for improvement of Alexa, and we can expect the same for both MS' and Google's voice assistants for upcoming iterations. If you're expecting raw perf improvements for CPU or GPU, for the future, I think you'll be disappointed. Everything coming out of the recent MS/Amazon/Google announcements are that AI will be the main area of improvement.

 

[Evildead_666]

what im understanding with all this is that if i want to build a purely gaming pc, i should basically make a steam deck desktop....
Microsoft ai copilot etc isnt something i want at all...

Intel seems confused too, maybe they should drop to 2 year intervals for hardware releases ?
I really dont see the point of yearly refreshes of everything.

 

[Greg7579]

Pffft no, we get raptor lake+ with 200mhz bump, arrow lake and arrow lake+ with 200mhz bump.

I should not have said 3 "generational" changes. Raptor Lake is just a refresh on its final legs. I was going to build with that vs the 13900K, even though the refresh is likely just a small bump up. But the big news is that Meteor Lake was not supposed to be for the desktop. Now it is and coming soon. Arrow Lake was the anticipated generational change for the desktop. Now for high-end desktops there is Raptor Lake Refresh, Meteor Lake and Arrow lake all in the next year ir so. Crazy.

 

[bit_user]

I'm confused. I was going to build next month with 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh because for months we have been saying that Meteor Lake was laptop only, and that the big generational change for desktops would be Arrow Lake probably about a year from now. So we get Raptor Lake Refresh now, them Meteor Lake a few months from now and then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that?

The only way this makes sense to me is if Meteor Lake is going to makeup the low-end of the desktop Gen 14 model line. Then, Arrow Lake will replace Raptor Lake, as the upper-end desktop die.

Otherwise, doing three desktop CPU launches in just over a year's time makes almost zero sense. Therefore, if you're planning on building a high-end machine within the next 6 months, I'd take a gamble and use Raptor Refresh.

That's just my take, though. Make your own decision and don't cry to me if I'm wrong!
: O

 

[bit_user]

Your timeline is too optimistic. All the above will be spaced out into annual releases, so Raptor Lake Refresh in Dec '23, Meteor Lake desktop in '24, and Arrow Lake (which we know nothing about) in '25. That's if the releases hold to the timeline. Rule of thumb is that they will probably slip, just like Meteor Lake did.

Not if we're going by what Intel says. They tell us Arrow Lake will be 2024 and Panther Lake will be 2025.

You can bet on whether one of them slips and they substitute it with a refresh, but right now we should just try to make sense of what they're telling us. This is the same thing they're telling investors, and they can't knowingly lie to investors without opening themselves up to litigation.

 

[baboma]

>Not if we're going by what Intel says. They tell us Arrow Lake will be 2024 and Panther Lake will be 2025.

Intel announced Arrow Lake will "launch" in 24, but a launch isn't the same thing as retail availability, at least for desktop. Meteor Lake "launched" this year, but we won't see it for desktop until '24. Remember, desktop is distinct from laptop/mobile.

The x86 ecosystem is geared for annual refreshes, and occurs in regular cadence, which is usually in the second half of any given year, timed to fit the back-to-school and fall sales. It's not just Intel CPU releases we have to consider, but also the associated chipsets along with the mainboard partners.

So, yes, I'm saying that we (consumers) won't see Arrow Lake CPUs and supporting boards for desktop in '24. For laptops, maybe. But DIYers don't do laptops.

 

[cyrusfox]

So, yes, I'm saying that we (consumers) won't see Arrow Lake CPUs and supporting boards for desktop in '24. For laptops, maybe. But DIYers don't do laptops.

I strongly disagree, Intel has released multiple desktop chips in the same year before, and quite recently:

• Rocket Lake top desktop parts released March 30, 2021
• Alder Lake top desktop parts released Nov 4th, 2021

Nothing to stop them from doing it again especially if it gives them a competitive advantage against AMD. No way to push out 5 nodes in 4 years unless you productize them, and that will require some rapid releases.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

The only way this makes sense to me is if Meteor Lake is going to makeup the low-end of the desktop Gen 14 model line. Then, Arrow Lake will replace Raptor Lake, as the upper-end desktop die.

Otherwise, doing three desktop CPU launches in just over a year's time makes almost zero sense. Therefore, if you're planning on building a high-end machine within the next 6 months, I'd take a gamble and use Raptor Refresh.

That's just my take, though. Make your own decision and don't cry to me if I'm wrong!
: O

I think Meteor Lake for desktops may end up like a niche product. "Oh, you want better integrated graphics with lower power use, on a desktop? Here you go!" I do think you're right that the RPL-R chips will fill out the top performance end of the spectrum from Intel, but I suspect we'll get decent performance chips from MTL-S as well. They'll be lower power, possibly much lower power, since RPL-R is still Intel 7 (10nm originally), while MTL-S will have multiple dies and the compute chip will be Intel 4.

Intel 4 should be a pretty significant jump from Intel 7, in terms of power, size, efficiency. What's not clear is how all the other stuff (TSMC chips, Foveros, etc.) will factor into performance. But... if MTL-S was actually a clear upgrade from RPL, I don't think there would be an RPL-R launch this year. Ergo, yeah, I definitely think MTL for desktops is going to be a step sideways on performance, or even backward, while improving features and power.

 

[heickel.ramadhan]

I'm confused. I was going to build next month with 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh because for months we have been saying that Meteor Lake was laptop only, and that the big generational change for desktops would be Arrow Lake probably about a year from now. So we get Raptor Lake Refresh now, them Meteor Lake a few months from now and then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that?
Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?
Maybe I should not build now with Raptor Lake Refresh. Man oh Man! Why spend 5 grand building a top end PC now when two major upgrades are coming in the next few months - Meteor Lake (which we thought was laptop only) and Arrow Lake as generational-level improvements to Raptor Lake.
Raptor Lake is on the tail end of old tech and Meteor Lake will have a new socket and chipset with completely new generational change level motherboards. Then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that which is a generational change. Why build now with top-end Raptor Lake stuff? It made sense since Arrow Lake was a year away. But now we have Meteor Lake for the Desktop staring us in the face.

I believe the reason why Meteor lake pushed back is due how the overall performance will be, on Desktop where power draw is less an issue New node probably haven't able to clock very high to match the matured Intel 7 Node

the whole Meteor lake design seems focus on power efficiency, assuming same happen on desktop, this is their Tock 2.0 thing, where the performance barely improve, but with new node came better efficiency.

 

[bit_user]

Intel announced Arrow Lake will "launch" in 24, but a launch isn't the same thing as retail availability, at least for desktop.

It basically is. Could be separated by a couple months.

Meteor Lake "launched" this year, but we won't see it for desktop until '24. Remember, desktop is distinct from laptop/mobile.

I don't know why you're using past tense. They said it will launch, for mobile, on December 14th. The desktop version will come in 2024. They said all of this.

The x86 ecosystem is geared for annual refreshes, and occurs in regular cadence, which is usually in the second half of any given year, timed to fit the back-to-school and fall sales.

No, it's not. Intel's launches are usually timed more to make the year-end holiday season.

It's not just Intel CPU releases we have to consider, but also the associated chipsets along with the mainboard partners.

Motherboards are the easy part, or so it seems. There are always some on the market, in time for the CPUs.

So, yes, I'm saying that we (consumers) won't see Arrow Lake CPUs and supporting boards for desktop in '24.

Just because you arbitrarily have decided not to believe Intel? Okay. I'll remember that.

 

[bit_user]

I strongly disagree, Intel has released multiple desktop chips in the same year before, and quite recently:

• Rocket Lake top desktop parts released March 30, 2021
• Alder Lake top desktop parts released Nov 4th, 2021

Rocket Lake was Intel freaking out and releasing anything to try and counter Zen 3. Maybe there were some pandemic-related delays that slowed Rocket Lake down by a couple months. Otherwise, it was very weird timing.

Nothing to stop them from doing it again especially if it gives them a competitive advantage against AMD. No way to push out 5 nodes in 4 years unless you productize them, and that will require some rapid releases.

They don't have to release all nodes in all markets. Case in point: Intel 4 is skipping server CPUs, while Intel 3 is server-only. Perhaps 20A will also skip server CPUs.

 

[bit_user]

What's not clear is how all the other stuff (TSMC chips, Foveros, etc.) will factor into performance.

Isn't Foveros their die-stacking technology? I think that's not slated to be used in Meteor Lake. EMIB is their name for chiplet/tile tech.

 

[cyrusfox]

Isn't Foveros their die-stacking technology? I think that's not slated to be used in Meteor Lake

Meteor lake is utilizing Foveros , hence Jarreds points are pretty valid about package benefits outside of just max single/multi core compute capability. (Image link not working see this ) Image

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Meteor lake is utilizing Foveros , hence Jarreds points are pretty valid about package benefits outside of just max single/multi core compute capability.

Yeah, Paul wrote up a whole series of articles on Meteor Lake covering the various aspects. I just covered the GPU part. But I know there’s a slide that talks about using an older Intel node for Foveros, then three TSMC nodes for the SOC, GPU, and IO die, and then finally using Intel 4 for the Compute die.

Intel Details Core Ultra ‘Meteor Lake’ Architecture, Launches December 14

The Intel 4 process node has Intel’s highest Day-Zero yields in a decade.

www.tomshardware.com

So the main tiles all get connected via EMIB, which appears to stack the tiles on top of a 22nm FinFET layer (now called Intel 16). It all sounds very complex and expensive as well. I can’t help but think the cost of a single Meteor Lake processor might be twice as expensive as a single RPL-R!

 

[thestryker]

I'm really curious what MTL on desktop would even look like given the tiled nature. They'd almost assuredly be using a different SoC tile unless they have usable tiles with broken LP e-cores. I could see Intel potentially using MTL CPU tiles with the ARL generation as I'm assuming the packaging would be the same.

 

[TerryLaze]

They'll be lower power, possibly much lower power, since RPL-R is still Intel 7 (10nm originally), while MTL-S will have multiple dies and the compute chip will be Intel 4.

And we will never find out because the way everybody is testing is to run everything power unlimited...in the best case,
and mobo-default, so heavily overclocked, in the worst.

Unless the node will be produced much worse or the added tech will cause it to be much worse it will still show the same max power draw or even higher if it will be able to handle more power before shutting down due to refinements.

 

[TerryLaze]

It all sounds very complex and expensive as well. I can’t help but think the cost of a single Meteor Lake processor might be twice as expensive as a single RPL-R!

We just had an article on tom's showing that the new tiled compute cores have a better yield than the refinements of the previous nodes, so that might balance things a bit.

Intel Details Core Ultra ‘Meteor Lake’ Architecture, Launches December 14

The Intel 4 process node has Intel’s highest Day-Zero yields in a decade.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[bit_user]

And we will never find out because the way everybody is testing is to run everything power unlimited...in the best case,
and mobo-default, so heavily overclocked, in the worst.

What about all the non-K processors out there? Aren't those supposed to be non-overclockable? There are plenty of reviews and benchmarks of them to be found.

 

[rtoaht]

I'm confused. I was going to build next month with 14th Gen Raptor Lake Refresh because for months we have been saying that Meteor Lake was laptop only, and that the big generational change for desktops would be Arrow Lake probably about a year from now. So we get Raptor Lake Refresh now, them Meteor Lake a few months from now and then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that?
Three major high-end chip generations for the high-end desktop inside of a year?
Maybe I should not build now with Raptor Lake Refresh. Man oh Man! Why spend 5 grand building a top end PC now when two major upgrades are coming in the next few months - Meteor Lake (which we thought was laptop only) and Arrow Lake as generational-level improvements to Raptor Lake.
Raptor Lake is on the tail end of old tech and Meteor Lake will have a new socket and chipset with completely new generational change level motherboards. Then Arrow Lake almost immediately after that which is a generational change. Why build now with top-end Raptor Lake stuff? It made sense since Arrow Lake was a year away. But now we have Meteor Lake for the Desktop staring us in the face.

Intel didn’t say January 2024 for Meteor lake desktop. It could be anywhere from January to December 2024