News Intel Could Split 10th-Gen Comet Lake CPUs Into Two Different Sockets

[Deleted member 2783327]

<sob> I so wanted to dump Intel. Sadly, AMD's HEDT prices are about 50% higher than Intel's now, when you include a compatible motherboard, and worse if new RAM is needed. Mainstream is out because it only has 16-20 PCIe lanes and I need 28+ on all systems. <sigh>

And has been said earlier in this thread, who really needs 32+ cores? I'm running 10 core now, I would like 16, but whatever happens the PCIe lanes are the determining factor.

The sTR4, or TRX40/TRX80 is a reinvention. But at least it's not two different sockets for the same CPU.

I think everyone knew Intel has been ripping off customers for years. The massive price drops really just highlight that the current Intel products are not up to the job.

 

[bit_user]

<sob> I so wanted to dump Intel. Sadly, AMD's HEDT prices are about 50% higher than Intel's now, when you include a compatible motherboard, and worse if new RAM is needed. Mainstream is out because it only has 16-20 PCIe lanes and I need 28+ on all systems. <sigh>

And has been said earlier in this thread, who really needs 32+ cores? I'm running 10 core now, I would like 16, but whatever happens the PCIe lanes are the determining factor.

Okay, so you're a 3D artist and need to run 3x GPUs per machine, each on a x8 link? I'm having difficulty imagining why else you'd care so much about having x28 CPU-connected lanes.

I am hoping AMD's new Threadripper prices will drop, like in previous generations. But, it could be a while (I can afford to wait).

 

[jimmysmitty]

I wasn't around for the K8. But while AMD is offering the better value while Intel raises their prices, I will sing AMD's praises and let everyone know what I think about Intel (on rare occasion.) If the tables turn, then I suspect my opinion will as well.

The market, supply and demand, works both ways.

I can tell you from experience that depending on the situation, AMD will price accordingly. They are not privately owned and are just a smaller version of Intel. In the end if they can charge more they will. The bottom line is what matters.

Intel raising prices is due to many factors. They did not raise prices of products newer but replaced them. However when you have nearly no competition for multiple years and your next process tech has issues you can run low on inventory and prices will go up. Its the same as when a product releases and is in short supply and retailers price gouge or when crypto mining caused AMD GPUs that were barely high end to cost almost as much as a Titan class GPU.

Why would you mention AM4 in the same breath as FM2+? That's just silly. AM4 is the socket that unified everything beneath true HEDT. FM2+ is an old dead socket. So yes, AMD did pull this stupid stunt, but it wasn't in the AM4 era (today). It was back during the AM3+ days. sTR4 as mentioned is true HEDT and would not compete with this hypothetical LGA1200. LGA1200 (if it exists) would slot BETWEEN the regular consumer chips and HEDT, and Intel would thus still need an HEDT platform (a third socket). They would only be splitting the CPUs that compete with AM4 chips among two sockets, as simple as that.

Again, AMD did it before and it was an unpopular decision, I wouldn't recommend Intel do the same.

The thing is we don't know. All we have to go on is some possible information and have seen nothing official. I would think it would be weird for Intel to split it even more. I could see them doing it for say business and consumer but not consumer again.

I don't feel that it is acceptable for those building a system to be total idiots, no. It happens, but I don't think it's acceptable. Nor would I anticipate anyone building their own system around a $60 chip would actually be incompetent enough to think they need a $250 board. I'd much rather have a unified socket for all mainstream desktop chips than to have a supposedly idiot-proof (it's not, some idiot will try and cram an LGA1200 into an LGA1159 board) two socket lineup.

Idiot proof or not people still can mess things up. Had a customer with a LGA1156 system board fried but CPU was good. The shop I worked at had a single P55 board left. He took it. Didn't want to pay me to install the board so he did it himself. He brought it back a few days later saying it wouldn't POST. I did all kinds of testing before taking anything apart and was not sure. Pulled the heatsink off and lo and behold a i7 2600K was sitting in the socket. Even though the pin count was just one less the 2600k was slightly bigger and had a few differences. But he managed to shove it into the socket and kill the board. Took a lot to pull the chip. Luckily the chip was fine.

Okay, so you're a 3D artist and need to run 3x GPUs per machine, each on a x8 link? I'm having difficulty imagining why else you'd care so much about having x28 CPU-connected lanes.

I am hoping AMD's new Threadripper prices will drop, like in previous generations. But, it could be a while (I can afford to wait).

Unless Intel can do a per core match and PCIe match it wont drop. AMD has no reason to. They have better core counts and overall performance in HEDT, Intel does have a few areas better, so they will keep pricing as is.

If Intel ever gets their process tech off the ground floor and can start matching core counts and keep the clock speed advantage then AMD might have to worry about HEDT pricing.

 

[bit_user]

Unless Intel can do a per core match and PCIe match it wont drop. AMD has no reason to. They have better core counts and overall performance in HEDT, Intel does have a few areas better, so they will keep pricing as is.

My statements were based on what happened with pricing of both previous-generation ThreadRippers.

I'm sure AMD will drop price on the latest gen, as well. However, it might not be until either Intel is about to introduce competition or AMD is about to launch the next gen.

If Intel ever gets their process tech off the ground floor and can start matching core counts and keep the clock speed advantage then AMD might have to worry about HEDT pricing.

Ice Lake server CPUs could be good, and will have PCIe 4.0.

 

[jimmysmitty]

My statements were based on what happened with pricing of both previous-generation ThreadRippers.

I'm sure AMD will drop price on the latest gen, as well. However, it might not be until either Intel is about to introduce competition or AMD is about to launch the next gen.


Ice Lake server CPUs could be good, and will have PCIe 4.0.

Last gen sure. Current gen I doubt. While Intel does have some advantages its not enough to really convince people to only go with them. And while the desktop and HEDT market are not the most important profit wise its still a market.

Ice Lake is fine and dandy but the process is not mature enough to support the core counts and clock speeds Intel would want to put out. I think it will be something similar to AMDs approach, having say two 8 core chips tied into a package, but using their Forevros or EMIB technologies to tie them closer together after all the design AMD is using does have some disadvantages a monolithic die does not.

Only time will tell. Until then AMD will continue to sell well and pricing will remain pretty stable. If they have similar competition for next years refresh of Zen 2 I wouldn't be surprised to see the same prices.

 

[bit_user]

AMD will continue to sell well and pricing will remain pretty stable.

There's another factor that could trigger a price drop: supply.

Right now, they're almost certainly limited in the number of top-binned chiplets available. However, if TSMC's yields improve or their production is simply able to better catch up with demand, then they might decide to cut prices, especially should demand also begin to taper off. The market segment for those CPUs is not that big, and some people (like @IceQueen0607 ) will have been priced out of it.

 

[alextheblue]

The thing is we don't know. All we have to go on is some possible information and have seen nothing official. I would think it would be weird for Intel to split it even more. I could see them doing it for say business and consumer but not consumer again.

Yes, it's all up in the air, all speculation. But (should it occur) it is far from the first time this sort of thing has been done. AMD did it with the AM and FM sockets, and further back with socket 754 and 939 (single vs dual channel). Intel had the slot and socket mix back in the day too. For their sake I hope this is strictly a rumor.

Idiot proof or not people still can mess things up.

This was my exact point. In the text I quoted lies an implication that there is some benefit to splitting the socket, like it ensures people won't mismatch components... we know it doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 2783327]

Okay, so you're a 3D artist and need to run 3x GPUs per machine, each on a x8 link? I'm having difficulty imagining why else you'd care so much about having x28 CPU-connected lanes.

I am hoping AMD's new Threadripper prices will drop, like in previous generations. But, it could be a while (I can afford to wait).

Lol. Nothing so grand. We use combinations of 10GBe Network adapters, USB 3.2 Gen2 expansion cards, additional SATA port cards, multiple M.2 drives, RAID cards, and others. When (if), 10GBE becomes mainstream and affordable we can do away with those cards. But they all use PCIe lanes. My entire infrastructure here is 10GBe. Additionally, since NAS is affordable and slow or fast and insanely expensive, we've opted for USB 3.2 Gen2 enclosures.

I suspect AMDs prices will only drop $100-$200 but not for at least a year.

(Dare I say it...) I guess one advantage Intel has over AMD. The Threadrippers are 280w. Everything I read says more power hungry and run hotter. There are two schools of though on this both staunchly defended by each side, but if it's true and given the 50% uplift on price, AMD, at least for HEDT is just not viable at this time.

I get that most people have one graphics card, Gigabit Ethernet and nothing else, and often go for "smallest and cheapest". Hence the constant mixing of Mainstream and HEDT terminology, reviews and comparisons we see here regularly at Toms.. As one person once said to me "No one cares about PCIe lanes".

 

[bit_user]

Lol. Nothing so grand. We use combinations of 10GBe Network adapters, USB 3.2 Gen2 expansion cards, additional SATA port cards, multiple M.2 drives, RAID cards, and others. When (if), 10GBE becomes mainstream and affordable we can do away with those cards. But they all use PCIe lanes. My entire infrastructure here is 10GBe. Additionally, since NAS is affordable and slow or fast and insanely expensive, we've opted for USB 3.2 Gen2 enclosures.

Thanks for the answer.

I think Ryzen 3k's PCIe 4.0 x4 chipset link goes a long ways towards handling all of that. That's 8 GB/sec, in each direction. You're pretty much a poster child for it.

I'd just try to get an ATX or EATX-size X570 motherboard with enough slots, maybe an extra onboard SATA controller, and even onboard 10 Gig Ethernet.

And with Ryzen, you can even use ECC memory.

I used to run a E5 Xeon, in my workstation (Socket LGA 2011), but now AMD has done so much to bring that level of functionality down to the mainstream segment that I can no longer justify the price premium for a true workstation CPU and motherboard.

(Dare I say it...) I guess one advantage Intel has over AMD. The Threadrippers are 280w.

Yeah, it'd be nice if they came out with some lower-core-count models for those who just need the PCIe lanes.

P.S. Welcome & Happy New Year!

 

[urbanman2004]

This came as a surprise to - NOBODY ever. Of all people, it's Intel we're talking a/b here 😂

 

[urbanman2004]

This came as a surprise to - NOBODY ever. Of all people, it's Intel we're talking a/b here 😂

 

[Deleted member 2783327]

I think Ryzen 3k's PCIe 4.0 x4 chipset link goes a long ways towards handling all of that. That's 8 GB/sec, in each direction. You're pretty much a poster child for it.

I'd just try to get an ATX or EATX-size X570 motherboard with enough slots, maybe an extra onboard SATA controller, and even onboard 10 Gig Ethernet.

I've started a new thread for this as it doesn't really relate to the original topic.

 

[bit_user]

I've started a new thread for this as it doesn't really relate to the original topic.

If you want anyone from here to see it, I think it'd be wise to edit your post with a link. I don't usually browse the forums, outside of the news threads.

 

[Deleted member 2783327]

Yes, sorry about that. I did intend to, I got called away half way through.

Here you go.. https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...oard-vs-hedt-with-more-pcie-x3-lanes.3562218/