Intel CPUs Affected By Yet Another Speculative Execution Flaw

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Fun times for those having to patch entire data centers of servers each time one of thee flaws are found. Intel is costing customers a ton of money. I would ask for a rebate if I ran a data center.
 

DookieDraws

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Intel asked researchers to delay their disclosure of the bugs? That's pretty messed up, if you ask me. I guess Intel was more concerned about losing potential sales of their CPUs, than looking out for our best interest.

I wonder if the soon-to-be-released 8-core CPUs, will be affected?
 

Brian28

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DOOKIEDRAWS: the companies often ask for a delay so they have time to create, test, and deploy a patch. Researchers who publish without delays create a risk that hackers will figure out how to use the vulnerability before a patch exists, which is not in our best interest, either. In this case the cat was out of the bag, due to rumors, so the researchers published anyways. But in most cases, having a published report at the same time as the patch is ready means users get the patch installed more quickly, which is better than users panicking when the report comes out with no patch, followed by inaction when the patch comes out months later.
 

hannibal

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Ofcourse it is because it is based on the same architecture. Intel need quite big overhaul, the get rid of these. A couple of years most likely.

And, yep it is better to ask delay than allow free exploit to hackers in the meanwhile. These are not easy thing to pacth!
 

DerekA_C

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Glad AMD is back in the running they will be able to pump out 7nm chips by the beginning of next year that could be more powerful than Intel. IMO if AMD had the time to refine 12nm 5 times like Intel's 14nm they would be faster I am positive of that. Oh lets never forget that AMD was able to pack 8 cores on 28nm tech, 7nm node could leave them room to pack 16 cores on mainstream chips if it were cost effective enough, particularly as they move toward 32 core on HEDT and 64 core on servers. Intel sure got caught with their pants down, they have never fallen behind on node tech before and they have never had such a close competition in almost all computer markets now.

I pray AMD really hurts Intel this time and I hope people wake up and realize Intel and Nvidia DO NOT care about their customers they care about your wallets and that is it. AMD on the other hand has always been there for the everyday folk, going back 20 years. They now have a really smart and ambitious CEO that doesn't have her head up her own ass because she is also that engineered mind, not a book twat.
 

stdragon

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Still no word on if AMD is effected by this. I'm guessing not, but...I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

If Intel had a clue by now, their entire engineering division has been working round the clock to develop an entirely new x86 architecture and deprecate Core.
 

bit_user

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I foresee the return of a sort of "turbo mode", which disables all the fixes and mitigations for certain programs (e.g. games, GPU drivers, etc).

Otherwise, it's looking like we're headed for a few years of CPUs just getting slower and slower.

What's sad is that x86 has a basic mechanism on which you could build enhanced security. It has 4 "rings" of protection, with normal application programs running in the least secure ring. If application developers could be trusted (and they basically can't) to switch to a more secure ring, for handling sensitive data, then these protections could be limited to only the 3 inner rings. But there's too much legacy software and the tools support just doesn't exist for such software solutions.

So, what we're left with is basically just the option of having performance-critical code being eligible for special-case optimizations, rather than having optimizations be the default and saving the special-case for sensitive data.
 

Meng Yang

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Must wait for end-2019 Ice Lake CPUs for in-silicon mitigation of Spectre & Meltdown. Early 2019 Cannon Lake is just a 10 nm die shrink of 8th-gen Coffee Lake.
 

pegasusted2504

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I have a thought. Why not just tell intel/amd about it properly then when you tell the press or public you just say "we have found a problem, it is "x" bad and needs sorting? Instead of telling all the hackers and bad people out there exactly what the problem is where it affects and how to find/use it against others. "By disclosing it now, the researchers have put pressure on Intel to release a patch quickly to OEMs. "- No they haven't they just made all the scum aware of it giving them chance between now and patch day plenty of opportunity to have a go with it. They haven't done it out of some sense of public fairness or safety, they do it to crap on a company and to make themselves famous
 

0InVader0

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Let's not delude ourselves into thinking AMD cares about anything other than money. If they could, you bet your ass they would squeeze every penny out you. They tried it with Mantle and failed because it was just not good enough. Intel and NVidia can only do the things they do because they deliver objectively superior performance and crush their competition (NVidia in particular).

Yes, this now deals a big blow to Intel and they did this to themselves, but if they manage keep the single-core performance of their CPUs after they're done fixing all this, I don't see AMD crushing Intel just yet. They pack their CPUs full of cores - like they always do - which is cool for servers and workstatiosn, but not for regular consumers.
 

redgarl

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By comparing Intel and AMD track record, you are the one deluding yourself. Intel has based all their decisions for making more money while AMD always come back at slapping the bear once in a while by pushing innovation.

AMD is pushing open source. If you add that they didn't cut the corner in favor of performances over security while Intel did, there is a reason why the feeling of the public shift.

As for single core performance, they are irrelevant in the future. I am even surprised that gaming bench are still using 3-4 years old games. these games were heavily using single core due to consoles, in the next couple of years, these bench will not reflect the reality anymore. Developers are shifting to multithread software design. Single thread is a thing of the past.
 

0InVader0

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What open source are you referring to? The open source drivers? Yeah big deal... Their drivers for Linux still suck. They were very late with Vulkan support. Mantle was not even open source. And again, if any of these things were good enough for people to desire them hard enough, they would make them AMD exclusive, just like NVidia and Intel are making a bunch of their stuff exclusive to their own systems.

Single core performance was a thing of the past 4 years ago too. In fact it's a thing of the past for over 10 years now, ever since Core 2 Duo processors got popular, but whether you like it or not, you can't make parallel calculations if you need in-between results for subsequent operations. Thinking parallel calculations are the ultimate solution is the same as thinking that you can keep putting more and more people to work on a project to scale down the time needed for it, without ever hitting a limit.

I (or anyone else) don't care how any of these companies work. What matters are benchmark numbers and up until now AMD was consistently losing on charts... at least on the CPU front. Their GPUs can't even compete. Not even on the price/performance scale. No amount of your idealism will change this fact.
 

motocros1

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i don't want to get in between two fan boys here, but intel did pay off companies to not sell amd and nvidia tried their partner program bs. amd has had competitive products with a fraction of the budget and r&d that intel or nvidia have. most of amd's downfalls aren't noticeable to the day to day normal person's experience.
 

bit_user

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First, there are a lot of folks in these companies just like us - gamers, PC nerds, and engineers who enjoy challenges and take pride in their work. They don't only care about money, but their investors do force them to put profits before anything else.

Second, Mantle's only goal was to spur innovation, which it accomplished in the form of DX12 and Vulkan. They wanted to show what was possible, if you got rid of the conceptual baggage bogging down legacy APIs.
 

stdragon

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No, single threaded performance is still just as important then as it is today. For each generation, the IPC performance has been increasing. The CPU architects and engineers aren't stupid, at all. They might be shortsighted in hindsight, but definitely not stupid. Because CPU die real estate is precious, they go to great lengths as how best to utilize that space for the transistors. Depending on the need, you could go massive parallelization at the cost of IPC, or increase singled threaded IPC performance at the expense of additional cores. So, they opt to choose a well balanced approach given by nature it's the heart of the PC - a general purpose processor. Jack of all trades, but master of none; because that's the intended role.

You are right multi-threaded being limited. Certain problems just mathmatically can't be broken up. The calculations often must be sequentially pipelined in single-threaded operation. To draw an analogy, you just can't get three women together to gestate a single baby in 1/3rd the time.
 

Warsaw

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To draw an analogy, you just can't get three women together to gestate a single baby in 1/3rd the time.

Or CAN you? *sits back and ponders*

I bet if anyone could do it, Algernop Krieger could!
 

phobicsq

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Man Intel is a joke. It's bad enough they've been selling i7s at a high price with bad heat exchange, delids seem to work though, and now the continued security flaws as well as trying to silence information. Companies like this should be sued until they go out of business.
 

Viking2121

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Well, I mean only if you knew what I went threw these last few months you wouldn't be saying that.

My R7 1700 dose not perform better then my 5820k in any games other then a selected few which they typiclly performed the same, yes my 5820k was at 4.6ghz, when it died I got replacement and only went for a dirty 4ghz at 1.2v, well it died, ruled out to be Asus x99 Deluxe murdering my CPU's, I replaced the CPU and waited for 2 weeks before Asus just sent back the same board saying nothing is wrong with it though it kills CPU's after awhile with Qcode 00 or 33.

I moved to the AMD R7 1700 int rhe mean time to hold me over for awhile.

Moved to a i7 5960x after playing with the AMD build and a non Asus OC socket crap, at just 3ghz is still miles ahead in many cases in gaming, mostly noticeable was COD WW2, and Diablo 3, other games like GTA5 was just marginally slower on the AMD rig, but the Intel rig always pulled ahead even when clocked lower.
 
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