News Intel Has Allegedly Canceled Its Desktop Meteor Lake 6P+8E CPU

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
There is more to this.

More shocking to hear is that the "Arrow Lake-S" desktop CPU lineup will come in 6+8 die configuration which would be a huge downgrade from the previously expected 8+16 die configuration, assuming these rumors are to be believed.

This would mean that the Arrow Lake Desktop CPU lineup will MAX out at 14 cores and 20 threads, which is a lot less than the 24 cores and 32 threads (8+16) we get on the Raptor Lake-S desktop CPUs.

Now all of this suggests that the upcoming Arrow Lake-HX CPUs, which utilize the same die as the desktop SKUs, will also max out at 14 cores and 20 threads.

But since Arrow Lake is expected to feature a big performance upgrade with its "Lion Cove" P-Cores and "Skymont" E-Cores, will it be enough to warrant a drop in overall core count ? I guess time will tell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deleted member 14196
"In recent years, Intel offered CPUs with six high-performance cores and eight energy-efficient cores for high-end notebooks, but not desktops"

What about the 13600k? 6P+8E.

True, the 12600k was 6P+4E, but not the 13600k.

// Stefan
 
  • Like
Reactions: ikjadoon
  • Like
Reactions: cyrusfox
Agreed. Sounds more like Intel has canceled an intermediate design and is going to stick the original plan with the newer architecture.

Canceling Meteor Lake because they think they can push Arrow Lake ahead to fill that niche. Which means dropping Meteor lake 6P-8E in favor of Arrow Lake 6P-8E while still leaving Arrow lake 8P-16E intact.
 
Eximo said:
Agreed. Sounds more like Intel has canceled an intermediate design and is going to stick the original plan with the newer architecture.
Click to expand...
The original plan was to have Meteor Lake on the desktop. Then, the cancelled it. Then, walked it part-way back and offered a low-end desktop part, and now even that is cancelled. All this dithering sure isn't doing anything to help Intel's credibility!

Eximo said:
Canceling Meteor Lake because they think they can push Arrow Lake ahead to fill that niche.
Click to expand...
There's not "pushing". Arrow Lake won't be launching in 2023, no matter what. So, cancelling Meteor Lake-S means their partners don't get to sell any LGA 1851 boards, this year, which they had certainly already invested in developing. That's not good news, for them!

I sure hope Intel doesn't cancel the Alchemist Refresh! ...or did that already happen, and I just missed it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ikjadoon
Really depends on how different Meteor and Arrow lake are. If they have the designs tested in the engineering sample phase, I don't see why they couldn't spin up the fabs to start making those in late 2023 and early 2024 for a year end release.

Since the plan is for Raptor Lake refresh end of this year, releasing a new architecture near the same time would kill a lot of those sales. With decreased chip demand to start with, it actually makes a lot of sense.

Motherboard manufacturers won't have lost much if they haven't gone into mass production. Not like their prototyping work would go to waste.
 
Stesmi said:
The only thing I'm seeing is that ARL-S will come in a 6+8 die version, Where does it say *only* ?
Click to expand...

His tweet is actually a bit unclear and confusing. Some are wondering whether that this might mean Arrow Lake desktop tops out at a chip with six performance cores and eight efficiency cores, or in other words, a Core i5 model - with no top-end Core i7 or i9 ?

But others are interpreting is that instead of Core i5 Meteor Lake coming this year - alongside Raptor Lake refresh, we'll get Core i5 Arrow Lake at a later date as the next 6+8 configuration.

Another speculation, which makes more sense to me:

We might be getting slightly beefier and faster Core i7 and i9 CPUs with with the upcoming "Raptor Lake refresh" lineup later this year (likely Q3), as a stopgap, so Arrow Lake which purportedly lands later in 2024, won't be getting the same high-end treatment.
 
bit_user said:
They could offer multiple compute tiles, or are you saying the large compute tile got cancelled?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. The user only said that the total core count is 14. Whether Intel cancelled a compute tile, we don't know yet. But let me ask the leaker and his sources, what they have to say, and I will update with more concrete info.
 
Eximo said:
Really depends on how different Meteor and Arrow lake are. If they have the designs tested in the engineering sample phase, I don't see why they couldn't spin up the fabs to start making those in late 2023 and early 2024 for a year end release.
Click to expand...
Meteor Lake is made on Intel 4, while Arrow Lake is made on 20A. Both new nodes, and there's Intel 3 in between. Arrow Lake already got pulled in by a couple quarters, IIRC. There's absolutely no way Arrow Lake is getting pulled in that much more!

Eximo said:
Motherboard manufacturers won't have lost much if they haven't gone into mass production. Not like their prototyping work would go to waste.
Click to expand...
They made big engineering investments and who's to say they haven't started volume manufacturing? Those investments were done with an expectation of recouping them this year. In business, it matters a lot when you can recoup your investment, because:
  1. That likely means they're paying interest on their debt.
  2. That's money they cannot invest into developing other products to bring in more revenue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ikjadoon
bit_user said:
Meteor Lake is made on Intel 4, while Arrow Lake is made on 20A. Both new nodes, and there's Intel 3 in between. Arrow Lake already got pulled in by a couple quarters, IIRC. There's absolutely no way Arrow Lake is getting pulled in that much more!


They made big engineering investments and who's to say they haven't started volume manufacturing? Those investments were done with an expectation of recouping them this year. In business, it matters a lot when you can recoup your investment, because:
  1. That likely means they're paying interest on their debt.
  2. That's money they cannot invest into developing other products to bring in more revenue.
Click to expand...

The question you have to ask is how have they been developing Arrow Lake to date? Prototyping the architecture on larger nodes, or straight up using the machines they have to make the 20A silicon. My understanding is most of the planned nodes are on the existing fab line equipment that handles , which is why they can pump the cadence of node shrinks (seemingly) every six months or so. They are talking 18A production before we even see 20A chips in the field!

By the old roadmaps from 2021, there is no underlying difference between Intel 3nm and 20A. All the technologies they plan to use were developed for the former so I honestly think the latter can slot right in. Essentially skipping 3nm for CPU tiles.

I don't disagree on points 1 and 2, that is a way to look at it. But coming off the tail end of an Intel socket development cycle they have to spend it either way, they can either dedicate to making more AMD products in the meantime or push forward. Some of those boards are likely to be sold to Intel for consumer product testing as well.
 
At this point I have a hard time putting stock into any of the leaks, but Intel not having any sort of desktop roadmap has allowed this to fester. Arguably AMD's long release schedule between Zen 4 and Zen 5 allows Intel to slow roll desktop as their chips are good enough. Mobile is the place where AMD has them handily beaten so ensuring they can flood the market with MTL does make sense given fab capacity and yields will inherently be lower.

With ARL moved up it's possible that given the static competition they've chosen to just wait and release a full line of SKUs. However until we have some official announcements it's impossible to say what desktop is going to get.

Edit: just a note I don't believe for a moment Intel is going to be limited to 6/8 on ARL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cyrusfox
Eximo said:
The question you have to ask is how have they been developing Arrow Lake to date?
Click to expand...
Do I? Why is that?

Eximo said:
Prototyping the architecture on larger nodes,
Click to expand...
Nope. This would be quite unprecedented, if they're doing it.

Eximo said:
My understanding is most of the planned nodes are on the existing fab line equipment that handles , which is why they can pump the cadence of node shrinks (seemingly) every six months or so. They are talking 18A production before we even see 20A chips in the field!
Click to expand...
What seems to have you confused is that Intel 3 is a refinement of Intel 4, while 18A is a refinment of 20A. That's why 3 follows so closely on 4, and 18A follows so closely on 20A. Both 4 and 20A are major nodes, however.

It's plain to see you have no clue about the hardware business.
 
5 nodes in 4 years. Leadership performance in 2025. Now let recap :
1. Sapphire Rapids : here fighting Milan of 2 years ago.
1. Rialto Bridge : gone.
2. Meteor Lake desktop : gone.
3. Falcon Shore XPU transformed into GPU to succeed Gaudi and Ponte Vechio. In other words, XPU's gone. Gaudi/Ponte Vechio fused into Falcon Shore ( which one's gone ? ).
Progress ? Strategy ? Paradigm shift ? Shrinkage ? Deterioration ? Anybody ?
7, 4, 3, 20A, 18A ... these numbers can fly😖
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cyrusfox and bit_user
Metal Messiah. said:
His tweet is actually a bit unclear and confusing. Some are wondering whether that this might mean Arrow Lake desktop tops out at a chip with six performance cores and eight efficiency cores, or in other words, a Core i5 model - with no top-end Core i7 or i9 ?

But others are interpreting is that instead of Core i5 Meteor Lake coming this year - alongside Raptor Lake refresh, we'll get Core i5 Arrow Lake at a later date as the next 6+8 configuration.

Another speculation, which makes more sense to me:

We might be getting slightly beefier and faster Core i7 and i9 CPUs with with the upcoming "Raptor Lake refresh" lineup later this year (likely Q3), as a stopgap, so Arrow Lake which purportedly lands later in 2024, won't be getting the same high-end treatment.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a bit unclear an confusing absolutely describes it well :)

Another way to also look at it is that the Compute Die (which is actually the discussion here) is 6P+8E (or up to...), and well, there's nothing stopping them slapping two of those next to each other for a 12P+16E solution is there? Pure speculation, but right now that's all I'm seeing around as well.

That would explain why the "top" appears to be 6P+8E, and that may well be true for laptop, but I don't see that being the max for desktop, any generation, so either that's not the full fat version of the CD, or they put multiples next to each other.
 
bit_user said:
The original plan was to have Meteor Lake on the desktop. Then, the cancelled it. Then, walked it part-way back and offered a low-end desktop part, and now even that is cancelled. All this dithering sure isn't doing anything to help Intel's credibility!
Click to expand...

Agreed. 🙁 This is Slide 35 of Intel's 2021 Accelerated Keynote (video replay here).

nAwwOBo.png

zbaHroQ.png

125W my arse, if most /all of Meteor Lake desktop is cancelled. This company can't ever keep its promises. Why? Is Intel 4 not all that it's cracked up to be?

These are not minor slips:

2021: Alder Lake
2022: Alder Lake Refresh
2023: Alder Lake Refresh Refresh

0% to 1% IPC across 3 generations. Come on.

The last time Intel refused to launch a desktop CPU on its latest node was 10nm with Cannon Lake / Ice Lake. Only Alder Lake two years later landed on an updated 10nm node (renamed to Intel 7).
 
  • Like
Reactions: bit_user
bit_user said:
Heh, Alder Lake is becoming the new Skylake.
; )
Click to expand...
I just replaced a 12900k with a 13900, much faster at 1/3 the power.

I am curious to see how they can prolong this for Raptor Lake Refresh. For Raptor it was easy to turn on cache already on die. I am surprised to hear MLID state that Raptor lake Refresh will have a good uplift. My 12900k on the used market has been quite discounted, not holding the value like my old i9-9900 in order to move it.
 
bit_user said:
Nothing I said contradicts that. You could've upgraded from a i7-6700K to i7-8700 and also gotten a nice uplift for less power. They're still both Skylake microarchitecture, however.
Click to expand...
All true/ decent analogy.
More cores going from 4→6 on skylake, vs more e cores in my case 8P/8e → 8P/16e
Skylake analogy is missing the cache changes (Have the same per core cache from skylake all the way through comet lake[6700K through 10900K 14nm saga). Raptor added significant per core cache.

I am super curious to see how raptor lake refresh can improve. All Intel chips for the last 5 generations are thermal headroom limited(Hot and stable). Raptor appears to clock incredibly well and when power constrained decent efficiency (no Ryzen or apple yet), but so much better than alder lake.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom