News Intel might be too big to fail — Washington policymakers are already discussing potential solutions if the chipmaker cannot recover

[Pierce2623]

Sure, Intel is the only one that do not use Taiwan to produce CPUs.

You’re kidding right? Intel is paying TSMC SIGNIFICANTLY more money than AMD. Luckily for AMD, Intel’s competing foundry and AMD’s early commitment to TSMC means that TSMC won’t allow Intel to push AMD out of “favored” status.

 

[Pierce2623]

Temporary and limited in scope. Nothing is impossible with high stakes like this. How do you think so many countries developed nuclear weapons without U.S. or Russia state sponsored outreach?

Limited in scope? Everything but the e core only Xeons is being made at TSMC.

 

[tamalero]

After this news Pat should immediately increase his salary and restore dividends.

Wouldn´t surprise me if they do this <Mod Edie>.
Many companies have done this dirty crap.
He might get a golden parachute post-bailout.

Funny how communism only works FOR companies.

 

[skedge]

Don't make STEM degrees easier to afford. Don't pay to train workers in America. Don't stimulate science and technology education and careers. Just hand out money to a multi-billion dollar corporation who look overseas for workers and manufacturing. Washington DC at it's finest.

With a robust technology industry in America, having leading edge chip manufacturing in America wouldn't be like pulling teeth. Too big to fail is code for your country has already failed because there isn't marketplace competition.

Long-term measures are needed, but they don't solve the immediate problem.

 

[Notton]

There is another option. The Government buys some, not all, Intel fabs and make the purchases a state-owned enterprise.
It'll keep the highly skilled workers employed at said fabs at the very least.
There is a ton of potential for making US electronics that meet Government security standards if they don't have to outsource to third-party contractors, who then hire a bunch of sub-contractors.

 

[kjfatl]

Intel's biggest issues are that they don't have a track record nearly as long as TSMCs and Samsung's, and their Forevos packaging may need to be accounted for vs the others as well. When delays and shortages can result in the losses of millions, if not billions, of dollars, there's no incentive for companies to go all in with IFS for some time.

As far as a merger is concerned, I wonder if the dark horse in the room is Texas Instruments? They're an American company with a very reliable track record and produces of tens of billions of chips a year. Perhaps if IFS were spun off from Intel it'd be something like a 50/40/10 ownership between TI, Apollo, and Intel.

TI is a great company with great process control, a true world class semiconductor. That said, they are in a significantly different business (130 to 45nm) vs Intel's (18nm to 0.14nm) . A good analogy would be SpaceX taking over Boeing's aircraft division. Yes, the could do it, but no, it would not be an easy task. In both cases it would be very good fit in the long run, but it would be a difficult 5 year process.
For Boeing it would probably end manufacturing and design in Washington State.
For Intel, not much would change from their current plan.

 

[redgarl]

Kodak was too big to fail to... same as Enron... same as Blackberry...

 

[SunMaster]

You’re kidding right? Intel is paying TSMC SIGNIFICANTLY more money than AMD. Luckily for AMD, Intel’s competing foundry and AMD’s early commitment to TSMC means that TSMC won’t allow Intel to push AMD out of “favored” status.

https://www.moomoo.com/community/feed/in-one-chart-check-out-which-tech-giants-are-leading-112597987688453#:~:text=Despite%20competition%2C%20Apple%20remains%20TSMC's,TSMC's%20total%20revenue%20in%202023).

 

[hotaru251]

they need to give they can start by giving the Chips act money that Intel was depending on in the first plac

they weren't depending on that money....the CHIPS act funds is to increase production...it has nothing to do w/ their immediate issues even if they ahd the $ they'd still be in same situation.

Just buy TSMC and be done with it

yeah...good luck with that even if you ignore the political issues of that possible sale no nation would approve of that. (and yes large sales liek that need approval from many places)

and thats on top of the cost would be well over 1T usd.

 

[80251]

Don't make STEM degrees easier to afford. Don't pay to train workers in America. Don't stimulate science and technology education and careers. Just hand out money to a multi-billion dollar corporation who look overseas for workers and manufacturing. Washington DC at it's finest.

With a robust technology industry in America, having leading edge chip manufacturing in America wouldn't be like pulling teeth. Too big to fail is code for your country has already failed because there isn't marketplace competition.

Before Intel the US used to own the IT industry through Big Blue. If your company needed a mainframe, it went to IBM. IBM also had a lot to do w/the promulgation of the personal computer in business. Where is IBM now?
Ditto for DEC. Ditto for Compaq. I'm sure the PRC is sponsoring their CPU manufacturer and turning a blind eye to any stolen IP it uses. I don't much remember anyone being up in arms when DEC finally died.

 

[80251]

Kodak was too big to fail to... same as Enron... same as Blackberry...

Same as Polaroid, same as TWA, same as PanAm, same as DEC. If you had told anyone in the 1990s, DEC would be dead and in its grave by 2020, you would've been laughed out of the room (particularly after DEC released their Alpha RISC CPU, the first 1Ghz. CPU).

 

[newtechldtech]

and thats on top of the cost would be well over 1T usd.

Not a problem , let the US people buy part of it , I am willing to invest $20000 in it if this happens. This is a winning investment.

 

[cerata]

That said, you're apparently under the mistaken impression that what a fab receives is of much use to competing chip designers. It's not. Trying to reverse engineer a design from those masks is…effectively impossible.

I was under the impression that TSMC's success is partly attributable to it being a dedicated foundry, i.e. a fabless designer perceives less risk of IP/trade secrets leaking to rival designers if they use TSMC instead of IFS, Samsung, or GlobalFoundries (before AMD spun it off).

To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong—I don't know anywhere near enough about the semiconductor industry to make that judgement. But I'm having trouble squaring your comment with the above. Is my impression incorrect? e.g. wikipedia lists other advantages of the dedicated foundry model, but doesn't explicitly say whether mitigating IP theft is one of them.

 

[TCA_ChinChin]

Just buy TSMC and be done with it . No matter the cost. if TSMC becomes US property , it will control the world.. ALL will beg USA after that to make their chips . and what is paid will be back ten folds in few years.

This how Tax Money should be spent , not on stupid wars and weapons for outsider dictators and warmongers..

Taiwan will never allow this to happen just like how the US will never allow Intel to be bought by a foreign company.

 

[why_wolf]

Kodak was too big to fail to... same as Enron... same as Blackberry...

None of those companies were to big to fail. To big to fail means the company is of vital national security interest. Either from producing products that the government can't rely on an foreign company providing. Or because its economic output is so large that if it were to fold it would generate a recession all on its own, ala Chase Bank, BofA, etc.

The companies you listed were merely famous, not vital.

 

[ekio]

When they make money, it’s only for shareholders, when they lose money, all taxpayers have to rescue them for nothing in return.
Talk about gigantic scam !!!!

 

[atmapuri]

Intel was sanctioned out of China and Russia and many other countries. This was meant as a penalty for the both, but the people paying for it are western companies, that loose the market share and sanctions allow competition to thrive in those markets. Nobody is suppressing the competitors anymore in those markets. The western sanctions are a self-sanctioning policy, if you want to apply this approach on a too global scale. That is, to swallow more than you can eat.

 

[cam menter]

Gee wiz, it's almost like they have what amounts to a monopoly in the modern era. Imagine if we just split them up into their various development labs and manufacturing wings, but that would take money and power away from big people and move it closer to the lower 2 classes, can't have that

 

[YSCCC]

Should be on terms that the high management cannot get astronomical bonus and dividents before paying back those aids, aiding the important industries is one thing, but letting a hefty amount of taxpayer's money (I am not US citizen but still, same logic) into the "great leaders" personal bank account is another issue

 

[Flayed]

Intel bet the farm on 18A production. Hopefully, it will pay off.

 

[Amdlova]

Intel just need keep pushing the 7nm or regbadge to another name... I like the time when when plus is better. Intel new node 7++++ if plus aren't enough push the node 6.9

 

[TheOtherOne]

But what about those spending their nights under homeless shelters in bad weather?

Lawmakers: WHO CARES? We gotta save this multi billion dollar corp. who sends all the revenue offshore and hardly pay any tax. Not to mention, we know exactly how they do all this with corrupt bookkeepers but we not gonna do anything about that because we also get paid to look away.

 

[newtechldtech]

Taiwan will never allow this to happen just like how the US will never allow Intel to be bought by a foreign company.

They dont have a choice , USA protects them , everything has a price. Either China takes it for free , or USA protects it and owns it or at least owns 51% of it.

 

[SunMaster]

They dont have a choice , USA protects them , everything has a price. Either China takes it for free , or USA protects it and owns it or at least owns 51% of it.

Which part of your brain tells you the US can forcefully take over any company it sees fit? It's what Russia does.

 

[subspruce]

The biggest reason Intel is failing is because it is hard to create those chips at such nanoscopic angscopic? scales.
A silicon atom is only 2.1 angstroms in size and 18 angstroms is less than a single order of magnitude larger.
TSMC hasn't had nearly as many problems as Intel, but eventually going smaller will be physically impossible.

18A doesn't mean the transistors are literally 18 angstroms in size