Intel Optane Memory is SRT Cache...Again

[Guest]

Cached I/O isn't anything new. Between Microsoft and Intel, consumers have been fed the technology in various shapes and sizes for nearly a decade. With flash performance declining and prices soaring, SSDs are out and HDDs are back, with Optane in front.

Intel Optane Memory is SRT Cache...Again : Read more

 

[jimmysmitty]

Everything has a target market and this is probably better for workstations rather than regular joes.

However it is the start of something larger that so far only Intel is pushing towards, which is NVDIMMs. I can't wait to see large NVDIMMs so I can make an OS drive in the memory. Right now Kaby lake has memory bandwidth of about 50GB/s. That is 5x faster read speeds available than a x16 PCIe SSD Seagate announced last year (10GB/s).

And that's on the mainstream platform. That would be instant on. I want that.

Of course DIMM size and availability will take time, as well as affordability, but I am fine with Intel testing ways to help improve it.

 

[manleysteele]

Call me pedantic, but, to me, it's not memory until it plugs into a memory slot. I already have 32 GBytes of memory in two memory slots with two more slots outstanding. The only reason I reserved two slots on this build was for a pair of 250 to 1000 GByte Optane memory modules that would make memory as storage viable. I could already have put two more DIMMS in at this size that will badly outpace this as cache (ramdisk).

 

[nzalog]

If you're going to be pedantic at least be accurate. Memory is anything that can store data. If it's RAM, ROM, Disk or part of a human brain it's irrelevant

 

[manleysteele]

We old guys know the difference between memory and storage.

 

[Guest]

Better use that money to buy more ram.

 

[CRamseyer]

It is a beautiful new technology but we are still in the early phase. In the article we stated Optane is the next SLC. This is a very exciting moment in history but it will take time for Intel to give us what we really want.

IMFT isn't the only company working on next generation memory technology, its just in the spotlight today and the first to mass production.

Optane Memory AKA "Next Gen SSD Cache" is what we need moving forward with "low cost" TLC NAND. I think everyone will benefit from a $45 cache but we all really want a sizable boot volume that can hold a few games and other applications.

It's pretty obvious that will come but the first iteration will come with an Extreme Edition price.

 

[Pompompaihn]

Got a crazy idea that probably isn't the least bit functional, practical, or even grounded in reality and/or has already been done:

Some form of PCI card that you can plug old generation RAM into to use as a dedicated RAM disk. Would be a good way of utilizing old DDR3 RAM or whatnot on new machines, and achieve basically what this is doing without needing to pay for NAND.

*end idea*

 

[CantBeStoped]

Can This cache a NVME M.2 drive? Would it even worth getting a Cache Drive for a M.2 SSD over 500GB?

 

[zodiacfml]

I was thinking almost the same thing as the guy above with the comment on "RAM". Once I have been using systems with substantial RAM, HDD speed is not much of a problem to me anymore.

I have an SSD in a laptop using now but the speed increase isn't dramatic except for installation of programs which feels a bit quicker.

Booting is still slow but I don't shutdown my laptop anymore as I use it every day anyway.

 

[RomeoReject]

I think the biggest reason this won't catch on is that it is already starting from a niche position - using a cache to increase certain tasks for the rest of the storage to handle is a small target to hit. But then they've gone from a small niche to a microscopic one by limiting this to one chipset that hasn't seen much adoption, and only keeping it to two manufacturers.

I foresee this having the exact same long term impact as SRT did.

 

[CRamseyer]

Let me frame it another way. Products like the Intel 600p could become normal. They are certainly selling well even though most of us would call them slow in comparison to what we already own.

With an Optane Memory device sitting in front of a 600p, Intel doesn't have to compete with Samsung. A 600p plus 16GB Optane could cost less than a 960 EVO. Intel could pass these drives out like candy to be bundled with motherboards when the yields improve. That would be a very powerful combination.

There are two other things. If you system can boot NVMe then it may be able to use Optane Memory in SRT even if you don't have a 200-series chipset. We'll have to test this but in theory Z170 and even some Z97 systems should work.

The other thing, to answer the question above, is that you can use to cache other NVMe devices.

 

[Guest]

Got a crazy idea that probably isn't the least bit functional, practical, or even grounded in reality and/or has already been done:

Some form of PCI card that you can plug old generation RAM into to use as a dedicated RAM disk. Would be a good way of utilizing old DDR3 RAM or whatnot on new machines, and achieve basically what this is doing without needing to pay for NAND.

*end idea*

I'd love that. I have 32 GB of DDR3 ram that is basically useless now, would love to plug it in a PCI card. At the same time, 32GB isn't even enough to install most modern games, so yeah....

But I'm sure a lot of people upgrading now have DDR3 ram lying around that does nothing. It's not a bad idea.

 

[nzalog]

We old guys know the difference between memory and storage.

What does age have to do with anything?
If you're being pedantic then be accurate... the end. "Memory" means what it means.

mem·o·ry
ˈmem(ə)rē/
noun
noun: memory; plural noun: memories

1.
the faculty by which the mind stores and remembers information.
"I've a great memory for faces"
the mind regarded as a store of things remembered.
"he searched his memory frantically for an answer"
synonyms: ability to remember, powers of recall
"she is losing her memory"
2.
something remembered from the past; a recollection.
"one of my earliest memories is of sitting on his knee"
synonyms: recollection, remembrance, reminiscence; impression
"happy memories of her young days"
the remembering or recollection of a dead person, especially one who was popular or respected.
"clubs devoted to the memory of Sherlock Holmes"
synonyms: commemoration, remembrance; More
honor, tribute, recognition, respect
"the town built a statue in memory of him"
the length of time over which people continue to remember a person or event.
"the worst slump in recent memory"
3.
the part of a computer in which data or program instructions can be stored for retrieval.
synonyms: memory bank, store, cache, disk, RAM, ROM, hard drive

 

[manleysteele]

Can This cache a NVME M.2 drive? Would it even worth getting a Cache Drive for a M.2 SSD over 500GB?

It can only cache a single bootable volume. While it could technically cache an M.2 drive, the gains would not be nearly as great as caching a HDD. The only really big difference would be at low queue depths.

 

[manleysteele]

Let me frame it another way. Products like the Intel 600p could become normal. They are certainly selling well even though most of us would call them slow in comparison to what we already own.

With an Optane Memory device sitting in front of a 600p, Intel doesn't have to compete with Samsung. A 600p plus 16GB Optane could cost less than a 960 EVO. Intel could pass these drives out like candy to be bundled with motherboards when the yields improve. That would be a very powerful combination.

There are two other things. If you system can boot NVMe then it may be able to use Optane Memory in SRT even if you don't have a 200-series chipset. We'll have to test this but in theory Z170 and even some Z97 systems should work.

The other thing, to answer the question above, is that you can use to cache other NVMe devices.

Optane is M+B keyed.

 

[manleysteele]

We old guys know the difference between memory and storage.

What does age have to do with anything?
If you're being pedantic then be accurate... the end. "Memory" means what it means.

mem·o·ry
ˈmem(ə)rē/
noun
noun: memory; plural noun: memories

1.
the faculty by which the mind stores and remembers information.
"I've a great memory for faces"
the mind regarded as a store of things remembered.
"he searched his memory frantically for an answer"
synonyms: ability to remember, powers of recall
"she is losing her memory"
2.
something remembered from the past; a recollection.
"one of my earliest memories is of sitting on his knee"
synonyms: recollection, remembrance, reminiscence; impression
"happy memories of her young days"
the remembering or recollection of a dead person, especially one who was popular or respected.
"clubs devoted to the memory of Sherlock Holmes"
synonyms: commemoration, remembrance; More
honor, tribute, recognition, respect
"the town built a statue in memory of him"
the length of time over which people continue to remember a person or event.
"the worst slump in recent memory"
3.
the part of a computer in which data or program instructions can be stored for retrieval.
synonyms: memory bank, store, cache, disk, RAM, ROM, hard drive

I don't know where you looked up that definition and I plain don't care because sub-section 3 is just plain wrong.

 

[Guest]

Can This cache a NVME M.2 drive? Would it even worth getting a Cache Drive for a M.2 SSD over 500GB?

It can only cache a single bootable volume. While it could technically cache an M.2 drive, the gains would not be nearly as great as caching a HDD. The only really big difference would be at low queue depths.

Which is substantial. Low queue depth is where all actual work happens, unless you are running a shared server. Have you ever actually seen queue depth >4 on a regular single-user workstation?

 

[damric]

I seem to recall OCZ failing with this SSD cache concept crapola a few years back.

Any SSD can be used as cache. This is just Ready Boost under yet another name.

If you can actually utilize all of this caching, then you should probably just buy more RAM.

 

[WINTERLORD]

hi does anyone know from all the information that is currently out now if 2x samsung 960 evo drives in raid 0, will i be able to put a 32gb optane device in the mix with these two drives in raid 0

 

[nzalog]

We old guys know the difference between memory and storage.

What does age have to do with anything?
If you're being pedantic then be accurate... the end. "Memory" means what it means.

mem·o·ry
ˈmem(ə)rē/
noun
noun: memory; plural noun: memories

1.
the faculty by which the mind stores and remembers information.
"I've a great memory for faces"
the mind regarded as a store of things remembered.
"he searched his memory frantically for an answer"
synonyms: ability to remember, powers of recall
"she is losing her memory"
2.
something remembered from the past; a recollection.
"one of my earliest memories is of sitting on his knee"
synonyms: recollection, remembrance, reminiscence; impression
"happy memories of her young days"
the remembering or recollection of a dead person, especially one who was popular or respected.
"clubs devoted to the memory of Sherlock Holmes"
synonyms: commemoration, remembrance; More
honor, tribute, recognition, respect
"the town built a statue in memory of him"
the length of time over which people continue to remember a person or event.
"the worst slump in recent memory"
3.
the part of a computer in which data or program instructions can be stored for retrieval.
synonyms: memory bank, store, cache, disk, RAM, ROM, hard drive

I don't know where you looked up that definition and I plain don't care because sub-section 3 is just plain wrong.

I used this site called "google.com". It's not even a linked, it's what shows up above the links. Is it possible that your memory is going bad?

Only difference between "RAM" and "Storage" is one is persistent memory other isn't but is much faster. Not sure why this is so complicated.

 

[manleysteele]

We old guys know the difference between memory and storage.

What does age have to do with anything?
If you're being pedantic then be accurate... the end. "Memory" means what it means.

mem·o·ry
ˈmem(ə)rē/
noun
noun: memory; plural noun: memories

1.
the faculty by which the mind stores and remembers information.
"I've a great memory for faces"
the mind regarded as a store of things remembered.
"he searched his memory frantically for an answer"
synonyms: ability to remember, powers of recall
"she is losing her memory"
2.
something remembered from the past; a recollection.
"one of my earliest memories is of sitting on his knee"
synonyms: recollection, remembrance, reminiscence; impression
"happy memories of her young days"
the remembering or recollection of a dead person, especially one who was popular or respected.
"clubs devoted to the memory of Sherlock Holmes"
synonyms: commemoration, remembrance; More
honor, tribute, recognition, respect
"the town built a statue in memory of him"
the length of time over which people continue to remember a person or event.
"the worst slump in recent memory"
3.
the part of a computer in which data or program instructions can be stored for retrieval.
synonyms: memory bank, store, cache, disk, RAM, ROM, hard drive

I don't know where you looked up that definition and I plain don't care because sub-section 3 is just plain wrong.

I used this site called "google.com". It's not even a linked, it's what shows up above the links. Is it possible that your memory is going bad?

Only difference between "RAM" and "Storage" is one is persistent memory other isn't but is much faster. Not sure why this is so complicated.

So you do know the difference.

 

[manleysteele]

Can This cache a NVME M.2 drive? Would it even worth getting a Cache Drive for a M.2 SSD over 500GB?

It can only cache a single bootable volume. While it could technically cache an M.2 drive, the gains would not be nearly as great as caching a HDD. The only really big difference would be at low queue depths.

Which is substantial. Low queue depth is where all actual work happens, unless you are running a shared server. Have you ever actually seen queue depth >4 on a regular single-user workstation?

Nope. You are correct. Optane has much lower latency at all queue depths and that low latency is present regardless of queue depth.

 

[manleysteele]

hi does anyone know from all the information that is currently out now if 2x samsung 960 evo drives in raid 0, will i be able to put a 32gb optane device in the mix with these two drives in raid 0

My understanding is not in this first iteration. This iteration is specifically designed to support HDD's. While it can be used with SSD's, the usage case is for people with a single, large HDD, that really needs help on the performance front.

Specifically, we are limited to the intel 200 series chipsets, the Gen 7 intel processors and Windows 10. The installation is supposed to be very easy, according to intel. Basically, one runs a setup program, then activates the drive. It will immediately speed boot times. As the user works, the software gets better and better at predicting the file use patterns for the programs most often used.

 

[manleysteele]

https://unlocked.newegg.com/article/intel-optane-streaming-live?cm_mmc=SNC-Twitter-_-CNT-Unlocked-_-LiveStream-Intel-Optane-_-032717

If you want to see the information I'm using for my answers, here is the link. They can explain it much better than I can.