News Intel quietly rolls out 'new' Core 5 CPUs that look suspiciously like 12th Gen chips — Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F enter the budget gaming market wi...

[Admin]

Intel has launched the Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F, two processors with silicon that seems to belong to the chipmaker's previous Alder / Raptor Lake lineup.

Intel quietly rolls out 'new' Core 5 CPUs that look suspiciously like 12th Gen chips — Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F enter the budget gaming market wi... : Read more

 

[derekullo]

On the bright side, the 12th gen chips didn't self destruct!

I'm still rocking an i9-12900k !!!

I was unaware DDR4 was still supported on the 14th gen chips.

I assumed the 12th gen was the only generation with both DDR4 and DDR5 support.

 

[Eximo]

Anything that has been made for LGA1700 so far has had DDR4 support. With any luck that will include Bartlett Lake, if launched. I want 12P cores, for nor particular reason.

 

[rluker5]

On the bright side, the 12th gen chips didn't self destruct!

I'm still rocking an i9-12900k !!!

I was unaware DDR4 was still supported on the 14th gen chips.

I assumed the 12th gen was the only generation with both DDR4 and DDR5 support.

13,14th Gen don't self destruct, they need extended exposure to ordinary CPU killing voltage levels before they start to degrade. Some AMD chips are known to explode at 200mv less than the kind of voltages motherboard manufacturers shoot the raptors with unless you override the settings or update your bios.
Most of the extra voltage is due to crazy LLC settings. By crazy I mean an extra 200mv.

 

[helper800]

13,14th Gen don't self destruct, they need extended exposure to ordinary CPU killing voltage levels before they start to degrade. Some AMD chips are known to explode at 200mv less than the kind of voltages motherboard manufacturers shoot the raptors with unless you override the settings or update your bios.
Most of the extra voltage is due to crazy LLC settings. By crazy I mean an extra 200mv.

This is not entirely true. Even undervolted CPUs from day one have suffered from degradation. Voltage is not the whole story when it comes to the 13th and 14th gen degradation issues.

 

[bit_user]

On the bright side, the 12th gen chips didn't self destruct!

Yeah, I was disappointed Raptor Lake didn't include a refresh of the H0 stepping (6P + 0E), until the degradation problems came to light. Then, I started to be quite happy I managed to dodge that bullet, when I opted for the i5-12600 anyway.

Anything that has been made for LGA1700 so far has had DDR4 support. With any luck that will include Bartlett Lake, if launched.

It would be incredibly weird if Intel released LGA1700 CPUs that didn't work in all the LGA1700 boards, including DDR4 and (if you think back really hard) the PCIe 4.0-only boards.

The downside is that I expect the official DDR5 support will still be limited to DDR5-5600.

 

[closs.sebastien]

On the bright side, the 12th gen chips didn't self destruct!

I'm still rocking an i9-12900k !!!

I was unaware DDR4 was still supported on the 14th gen chips.

I assumed the 12th gen was the only generation with both DDR4 and DDR5 support.

I'm still on a i7-8700k...

 

[bit_user]

13,14th Gen don't self destruct, they need extended exposure to ordinary CPU killing voltage levels before they start to degrade.

Not true.

CPUs were failing in servers, with zero overclocking and medium-duty workloads.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...mpany-sells-defective-13th-and-14th-gen-chips
​

Also, this:

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...tops-have-suffered-similar-crashes-in-testing
​

Some AMD chips are known to explode at 200mv less than the kind of voltages motherboard manufacturers shoot the raptors with unless you override the settings or update your bios.

This had only a handful of known incidents, which stands in contrast to the widespread Raptor Lake issues.

Most of the extra voltage is due to crazy LLC settings. By crazy I mean an extra 200mv.

If you're talking about Raptor Lake, those would die even with bone-stock Intel-recommended settings.

 

[HideOut]

On the bright side, the 12th gen chips didn't self destruct!

I'm still rocking an i9-12900k !!!

I was unaware DDR4 was still supported on the 14th gen chips.

I assumed the 12th gen was the only generation with both DDR4 and DDR5 support.

13th/14th dropped right into any 12th gen board slot (sometimes needing a BIOS update though) so yes, they all supported DDR4. Its the same chips but a 100mhz boost for the most part

 

[HideOut]

Intel has launched the Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F, two processors with silicon that seems to belong to the chipmaker's previous Alder / Raptor Lake lineup.

Intel quietly rolls out 'new' Core 5 CPUs that look suspiciously like 12th Gen chips — Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F enter the budget gaming market wi... : Read more

Que the "Snake oil" commentn from Dr Lisa Su, PLEASE

 

[bit_user]

13th/14th dropped right into any 12th gen board slot (sometimes needing a BIOS update though) so yes, they all supported DDR4. Its the same chips but a 100mhz boost for the most part

The 14th gen didn't introduce any new silicon, but some of the 13th gen models were indeed different actual chips than 12th. Check the stepping. If it's B0, then it's true Raptor Lake silicon. The other way you can tell is by specs like the cache sizes and officially-supported DDR5 speeds. Also, 12th gen only had 8 E cores, so any more than that is an obvious tell that it's genuine Raptor Lake and not just a rebadge.

 

[bit_user]

Que the "Snake oil" commentn from Dr Lisa Su, PLEASE

Did you maybe comment on the wrong article? I don't see her quoted anywhere in this one.

 

[PixelAkami]

Not true.

CPUs were failing in servers, with zero overclocking and medium-duty workloads.

​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...mpany-sells-defective-13th-and-14th-gen-chips​

​

Also, this:

​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...tops-have-suffered-similar-crashes-in-testing​

​

This had only a handful of known incidents, which stands in contrast to the widespread Raptor Lake issues.


If you're talking about Raptor Lake, those would die even with bone-stock Intel-recommended settings.

Wasn't the raptor lake CPUs dying at bone-stock settings due to motherboard people at that point?

 

[thekingofALLmonkz]

No NPCs in this thread defending this BS? Well that's a first.
Just imagine paying for a 14th gen, marketed as Raptor Lake, and you end up getting a hotter, less efficient Alder Lake C0. And you're f-ing happy about your purchase, even. You absolute muppet.

 

[TerryLaze]

Not true.

CPUs were failing in servers, with zero overclocking and medium-duty workloads.

There is zero mention of overclocking or level of workload in the articles....

On the other hand we do have a professional outfit that has actual numbers of systems they themselves properly set up to not have overclocking and intel has about half the failure rate of amd...

https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2...agzDHsWTS3hwVALaTc_L-i-e_0BUohjMbKgAxKIzqtckD

This had only a handful of known incidents, which stands in contrast to the widespread Raptor Lake issues.

Yeah, only a handful of CPUs exploded, to the extend that they physically damaged the mobo...what's the big fuzz about?! Can't a CPU just explode once in a while?

 

[Amdlova]

Still loving my old lga1700.
Waiting for the cpu explode with almost 200% watts more than the stock limit

 

[YSCCC]

There is zero mention of overclocking or level of workload in the articles....

On the other hand we do have a professional outfit that has actual numbers of systems they themselves properly set up to not have overclocking and intel has about half the failure rate of amd...

https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2...agzDHsWTS3hwVALaTc_L-i-e_0BUohjMbKgAxKIzqtckD

Yeah, only a handful of CPUs exploded, to the extend that they physically damaged the mobo...what's the big fuzz about?! Can't a CPU just explode once in a while?

That's just how Puget present it to look...

1) puget have set the bios to be way more conservative than what is included in the intel performance / extreme profile, which was officially support

2) The base no. of CPUs are vastly different, Puget sells much less AMD than intel, so the shop failure no. could be the same or AMD have less but the % will hike up

3) The RPL degradation gate is all abouot field failures, i.e. they degrade with use, not DOA. look at how thick the red bar of 13th and 14th gen, and compare it to the safe 12th gen.

I am lucky to have a 14900k frequency capped and undervolted and power limited in day 1 in a low end Z690 gigiabyte UD MB, so the profile is more mild, and still survive now, but that is even more aggressive tuning than Puget on the voltage side. If intel isn't really at fault they won't keep updating microcodes for that issue, the documented issues on microcode change exceed what is simply voltage or LLC related. just a few days ago yet another bios was finally out for my gigabyte mobo, that is even after EOL of the generation

 

[thestryker]

Wasn't the raptor lake CPUs dying at bone-stock settings due to motherboard people at that point?

No there were several underlying factors but they all seemed to stem from the voltage peaks being too high.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Mobi...en-Desktop-Instability-Root-Cause/m-p/1633442

In May they announced a new microcode update which covers what sounds like something that would be virtually impossible to test for in advance (unlike the primary issues... of course if they'd found said issues in the first place...):

Intel is releasing this 0x12F update based on Intel’s investigation of a limited number of reports regarding systems continuously running for multiple days with low-activity and lightly-threaded workloads.

 

[shady28]

Love these Intel hit pieces.

Meanwhile, 'brand new' laptops with AMD Zen 3 / Zen 2 CPUs are all over with nice new model numbers, and not a peep.

https://imgur.com/a/boRVcm9

View: https://imgur.com/a/boRVcm9

 

[bit_user]

On the other hand we do have a professional outfit that has actual numbers of systems they themselves properly set up to not have overclocking and intel has about half the failure rate of amd...

https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2...agzDHsWTS3hwVALaTc_L-i-e_0BUohjMbKgAxKIzqtckD

The problem with that data is that it's a snapshot in time and still rather early in the life of Raptor Lake. The longer those CPUs are in service, the more failures you get.

If you look at the trend data, there were clear signs of trouble brewing for the 14th gen, in particular:

​

 

[bit_user]

Still loving my old lga1700.
Waiting for the cpu explode with almost 200% watts more than the stock limit

That's a misleading statement, given that you bought a 35 W model.

The stock limit for it was set based on their expectations of what size cooling solution people would use. If you use a bigger cooler, then sure you can raise the power limit to match its bigger brothers.

 

[bit_user]

In May they announced a new microcode update which covers what sounds like something that would be virtually impossible to test for in advance (unlike the primary issues... of course if they'd found said issues in the first place...):

Maybe you missed this:

"Just last month, Intel released microcode update 0x12F to address the Vmin shift that’s happening to Raptor Lake CPUs that have been running for several days in a row. However, Svelto says that this version also caused the bugs to “come back in full force”.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ntel-crash-reports-team-disables-the-function
​

Sounds like 0x12F might've caused more problems than it solved. At this point in time, I still consider Raptor Lake a minefield I think is best avoided, completely.

 

[palladin9479]

Wasn't the raptor lake CPUs dying at bone-stock settings due to motherboard people at that point?

It was a combination of motherboard vendors auto-overclock with XMP enabled and Intel/AMD CPUs saying it was fine.

XMP/EXPO is technically "overclocking" the memory bus. MB vendors started to interpret that to mean the user wanted to OC everything and would do aggressive overvolting to maintain boost clocks. Disabling XMP/EXPO prevents this, but at a pretty hefty cost.

My Asrock AM5 board that has my 8600G will attempt to kill the CPU if I enable an EXPO profile. It immediately sets the SOC VCC to 1.3v which is dangerously out of spec for that CPU. I have to lower it down to 1.05 ~ 1.10.

Thankfully I caught it the first time, otherwise it would of eventually killed my APU. And I only caught it because the iGPU and UMC share that voltage and the graphics were unstable.

 

[thestryker]

Maybe you missed this:

​

"Just last month, Intel released microcode update 0x12F to address the Vmin shift that’s happening to Raptor Lake CPUs that have been running for several days in a row. However, Svelto says that this version also caused the bugs to “come back in full force”.​

​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ntel-crash-reports-team-disables-the-function​

​

Sounds like 0x12F might've caused more problems than it solved. At this point in time, I still consider Raptor Lake a minefield I think is best avoided, completely.

I didn't miss it at all I simply know what it is: a singular data point that has no insight as to whether the bugs are due to degraded CPUs or not (I'd bet they are). Looking at a singular data point and coming to the conclusion that 0x12F might have "caused more problems than it solved" is a really bad take.

 

[usertests]

I'm looking at a cheap i3-12100 system. It's nice that there will be a bunch of upgrade options for that littering the market.