News Intel Resuscitates 22nm Haswell Pentium Processor

[Giroro]

there is so much wrong in this I don't know where to start.

1. original zen had the same IPC as broadwell, which is about 12% faster IPC then haswell; meaning original zen was 15% faster then this original Intel chip, original zen could get to 4.2ghz which is just 3% slower then 4.3ghz, meaning original zen at 4.2ghz was ~9% faster then haswell at 4.3ghz.
2. zen+ was an 8% improvement over original zen which means it was 17% faster then haswell (4.2ghz vs 4.3ghz)

this of course ignores the fact that dual core with hyper threading =/= a quad core cpu in any measure (the best you could hope from a 2/4 cpu under full load is to perform like a 2.5 true core cpu, meaning a quad core will out perform it by about 160% in fully threaded tasks

so what does this all mean? not a lot, you'd have to push all the way back into the Athlon branding to find a 2c/4t cpu from AMD on zen+; and those chips not only sell for <less money then what intel is selling this chip for, but they out perform it badly in benches.

as for your experience I find it hard to believe unless you only deal in 1-3 core applications. I too came from a quad core i5 haswell to an amd zen+ 8c/16 cpu. and the performance gain was huge. Of course I actually run a lot of things that hit my cores hard. So perhaps I am the ideal user for a huge cpu like this. I later upgraded to zen2, and had my eyes opened as this 6x/12t really kicks the ass of my old 8c/16t (which means I probably wasn't ever using those 16t, and didn't need it to begin with)

For the workloads I care about and the benchmarks I tried, everything came out close enough to Zen+ for me to fell confident calling them "similar". Obviously anything bottlenecked by memory speed is going to be better on Zen+ than on Haswell... But I wasn't arguing that you should be throwing workstation class workloads at it. I'm saying that for general office work and GPU bottlenecked gaming it's totally fine. I'm not even recommending that anybody goes out and buys one, especially since used K-series processors tend to be crazy overpriced. But most current games are being optimized for consoles with CPUs that are worse than an overclocked Haswell i5. My whole point is that the older i5s aren't totally useless for being 6 years old. They're fine compared to budget options, especially overclocked.

I don't totally know what you're trying to say about 2c/4t Athlon. 4c/4t Zen+ Ryzen 3 2300X is a thing (but uncommon) and also the 3200G APU. Core count isn't really a factor in a discussion about IPC, though. As for original Zen, there's a lot of situations where even a stock Haswell i5-4670k or 4690k are going to outperform a stock Ryzen 3 1300X

As for my day to day experience, file compression is noticeably better... although I don't do that very often. I'm sure things are snappier but if a program launches in 2 seconds vs 3 seconds, it's just not that noticeable without putting the systems side-by-side, and a lot of the general-use gains are simply from being on significantly faster storage and memory, which is the primary reason I upgraded.
What was noticeable is that the new system booted slower (but the new bios improved that), and that it idles 15-20C warmer using the same cooler, despite having a lower TDP (~65C... I'm suspicious the older cooler isn't mounting properly, but the fan curve is probably also different and it was an older tube of TIM)

 

[Piri1974]

This post is long, sorry for that,
but that is because it is about history and NOSTALGIA
CRT monitors, IBM XTs, 486s and Overdrive processors, putting my head inside my pc as a kid,
Radio Shack/Tandy stores...

I dunno, but I always have difficulty getting rid of something that still works for its purpose.

I still have some very old pcs.
I hardly use them anymore because they are no longer safe for online use.
I just keep them for old games: XCom, Thief, the original Brothers in Arms game...

Some history:
My first contact with PCs was at my dad's work:
In the 80's he worked for DIGITAL Equipment (later bought by Compaq).
At a family day at Digital they learned the kids to write a program - I think in Basic - which would draw a flower on screen... I was like 12 years old then and I was amazed.
My next contact with PCs was at school, where they had then already VERY old IBM XT Pcs with an 8086 or 8088 cpu and just 2 floppy drives, and a green text screen.
We would write Turbo Pascal code on it. They were so slow that when the PCs was compiling your code, you could almost follow the line of code it was compiling.
And then my dad bought our first family PC: A 386SX running at 16Mhz with 4Mb of RAM and a 40 Megabyte hard drive. A lot faster than the PCs at school! I remember spending months playing the game 'DUNE' on it... At that time I loved the story of Dune.

I shouldn't admit this, but I still have a CRT monitor.

I still have 2.

A 17 inch Ilyama connected to the first PC which I ever built myself. That was an AMD K6-2 400 (Intel was too expensive for me) which I ultimately replaced by an AMD K6-3e+ 550Mhz (the 'e' in that name stands for 'embedded'. I could not find the retail version but as far as I know they are identical). That chip was faster than a Pentium 3 in many cases, except in heavy floating point stuff.

And a monstruous 22 inch Eizo CRT screen which must weigh about 50 pounds.
It stands on a table of solid oak.
That one is connected to my original Pentium II 300. At that time I was a student and did not have much money. So I purchased this Dell Pentium II second hand for 250 Euro from a classmate with the goal to upgrade it.
These PIIs were cassette-style CPUs, so I found an upgrade-cassette from a company called "Powerleap" in which I could plug a so-called "Tualatin" Celeron
running at 1200Mhz, quadrupling the CPU speed of that PC.

My first upgrade was for my first PC: a 486 DX2 66Mhz which my father had bought for me for 2500 Dollars, an expensive machine at that time.
Years later I upgraded it with a Kingston upgrade chip, which was essentially an AMD 5x86, a kind of 486 clocked at 133Mhz, thereby doubling my CPU speed.

I've had years of fun with these upgrades: The Kingston 486 upgrade, the AMD K6-3+ and later the Celeron Tualatin... I think they must have been the best CPUs I have ever bought when it comes to "bang for your buck".
Ah, where are the days of Intel, AMD, Cyrix, Centaur and NexGen...
And upgrade firms like Kingston, Evergreen and others...
In these days you could double the speed of a PC.
Those days are long gone: Moore's law has slowed down too much. Clockpeeds don't rise as fast anymore and neither does IPC performance, so in single threaded tasks a 5 year old CPU is almost as fast as today's CPUs at the same clock speed (only looking at Intel now).
If you want to double your speed now, you will need to wait very long, and replace the motherboard as well.

Those were the fun years of IT for me. The years when I could pass an hour with my head INSIDE my pc.
Today I am a DB2 database administrator, all servers are virtualised and it is not even half as fun anymore.
Maybe I should have become a PC technician somewhere in a small shop...
But unfortunately that job is not very 'wanted' anymore, and the small pc shops have almost disappeared too.
As a young kid, I've spent hours and hours in the local Radio Shack store just to look at all those electrical things... computers ( TRS-80 anyone? ), speakers, amplifiers... I loved that shop
And then as a kid I would buy just 1 floppy disk because I did not dare to leave the shop without buying something.
Unfortunately Radio Shack closed their European shops many years ago.

I'm sure you'll find a Ryzen Pro somewhere.
If you can't find it on Ebay, maybe you could look for firms which have gone bankrupt.
I don't know where you live, but here in Belgium, when a company goes bankrupt the government will often organise a public sale. And then you can usually buy a pc for less than a third of its value.

Greetz;
Carl

 

[bit_user]

This post is long, sorry for that,

Nah, it was fun. I had most of the same sorts of experiences, except my PC history went from 8088 -> 386 -> Pentium. The same SVGA card & monitor were reused between the 386 and Pentium.
: (

I didn't really get into computing until I started gaming on the 386, and then I learned programming.

As a kid, the only upgrades I bought with my own money were a 9600 baud modem, a MIDI card, a Sound Blaster Pro (8-bit stereo), and a pair of LCD 3D glasses that were everything I'd hoped for... on the couple games that actually supported them.

I liked Radio Shack, especially the small books they had on building different kinds of circuits. I even bought a print-your-own PCB kit from them, but never used it.

The first PC I bought with my own money was an AMD 486 DX4 100 that I pieced together at a flea market. I literally had to mail-order (as in send away for) a special VRM module, in order to use that CPU with the motherboard I got. Online shopping was just getting started, back then.

I still have 2.

Uh, no, I mean as a primary monitor. It's a 24" 16:10 and probably weighs about 90 pounds.

I have a couple other nice 21" that are just collecting dust. I got rid of a 13" SVGA and an old DEC VT 240 terminal, just like 5 years ago.

AMD K6-3e+ 550Mhz

IIRC, I took a K6-2 3DNow and under-clocked it to 485 MHz, for my first Linux fileserver.

Today I am a DB2 database administrator, all servers are virtualised and it is not even half as fun anymore.
Maybe I should have become a PC technician somewhere in a small shop...

That was my first after-school job. Then, 6 months after I got my first programming job, I started to wonder if I should've just gone back to fixing PCs.

Today, I spend way more time geeking out about PC hardware than actually building or upgrading it. I have a tendency to piece machines together over the span of a couple years. The latest project I'm noodling over is a portable VR machine, but I have only one, very limited use case for it and haven't yet passed the "point of no return" (i.e. buying some component I couldn't use for anything else I might build).

For me, the saddest thing about computing is that there's not anything I really wish it could do that it cannot. Sure, more/faster/better is nice, but it's not fun to dream about the future like it once was. Nowadays, my dominant feeling towards the future is that of dread. Just more mass surveillance, AI, and social media brain washing. Robots could be cool, but I feel more negative towards them than positive.

P.S. did you ever watch any demos? I was amazed to discover the demoscene still exists. I had assumed that GPUs would sort of kill it off, though nowadays I guess it's hard to come up with anything that's as impressive as what game engines can do.

 

[waltc3]

I wonder if Intel will also be resurrecting the old mboards/socket for this value cpu which isn't a value at all unless Intel sells it for $10 and the mboards for $15....? Seems likely. OTOH, maybe both would sell if priced at $5 ea...

 

[InvalidError]

I wonder if Intel will also be resurrecting the old mboards/socket for this value cpu which isn't a value at all unless Intel sells it for $10 and the mboards for $15....? Seems likely. OTOH, maybe both would sell if priced at $5 ea...

I doubt this has anything to do with value. More likely to be OEMs with long-term supply clauses exercising their last-order right before it expires so they can continue honoring their own customers long-term support obligations without having to re-design products around new parts.

I worked at a company that made cards used in air traffic control equipment and we had to re-spin a chip to use DDR2 due to being unable to secure enough DDR1 memory to meet long-term support obligations.

 

[bit_user]

I doubt this has anything to do with value. More likely to be OEMs with long-term supply clauses exercising their last-order right before it expires so they can continue honoring their own customers long-term support obligations without having to re-design products around new parts.

This specific CPU model supports ECC memory, so it's quite possibly used in some industrial machinery or other specialized devices of that sort.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...entium-processor-g3420-3m-cache-3-20-ghz.html