Intel, Samsung, Toshiba Team For 10nm Chips

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Could it be that we looking at the end of the road for Moore's law?

practical use of graphene (which i'm sure is still years away) would do wonders to lower heat production (since it's a superconductor at reasonable temps) but doesn't do anything to help increase processor density.
 
[citation][nom]lauxenburg[/nom]Honestly we felt the same way like 10 years ago. There were a lot of boundaries we thought we'd run into but we got past them. However, it's true that every few years we can't just expect a 10-15nm change. Advancing to a new manufacturing tech will take much longer unless we figure out some other way to do things, like you said.[/citation]

Just because we thought the end was near before it does not mean it will never happen. We thought we could be at 10Ghz by now, but it was not possible. In the end it is no a matter of believe, it is a matter of physics. You can't make transistors smaller than atoms.

What I'll continue to wait a few more decades is for diamond chips. With manufactured diamond dies in the lab, and its capability to run chips at terahertz speeds, it will sure be a boost to technology and the economy.
 
[citation][nom]bombat1994[/nom]the one thing that i must state that the one thing holding back the cpu industry is not, transistor sizes or cpu speed. its heat. cpu performance could be instantly doubled if heat was not a question. look at the amd phenoms under liquid nitrogen, 7.0GHZ. if a mechanically viable material that was much more capable at high temperatures or if it didnt care for heat at all, we would see great improvements in everything.Look at the car industry, toyota has started to really push there ceramic engine. the ceramic engine has a much higher heat compacity than steel nearly double. car performance and efficiency would be greatly improved, because not only does the engine less energy through heat transfer, but the need for a cooling system is all but eliminated. so a radiator is not required.if this happened in a computer the thing could be near silent. personally i thing that fans, and hardrives are the loudest component of the computer. so a laptop would be silent if it had a ssd then the noise problem is solved.but it is still interesting how close they can get to the quantom limitations[/citation]

That thing about ceramic engines is really interesting. I'll search for it since I was not aware of it. But can you point me to some links on the tech.

I guess we will see some technology overtake silicon eventually. The question then would be, how big of a time gap will we have between the end of silicon and the next innovation advance.
 
[citation][nom]kronos_cornelius[/nom]Just because we thought the end was near before it does not mean it will never happen. We thought we could be at 10Ghz by now, but it was not possible. In the end it is no a matter of believe, it is a matter of physics. You can't make transistors smaller than atoms.What I'll continue to wait a few more decades is for diamond chips. With manufactured diamond dies in the lab, and its capability to run chips at terahertz speeds, it will sure be a boost to technology and the economy.[/citation]


Any logic to this argument? Perhaps a point in the right direction, sounds interesting but I've never actually heard the reference to "diamond" chips.
 
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/12394/

I hesitated for a while o posting about diamond chips, but I knew I read it somewhere.

Notice the date on the reference article though, in those days Technology Review used to be all crazy about hydrogen cars being the future.
 
[citation][nom]ikefu[/nom]At 22nm a transistor is only about 200 atoms wide. Therefore 10nm would be only about 91 atoms across. [/citation]

Significant digits fail.

It's like saying, "it'll be in the 40's tomorrow - that's between 4.44 and 10.00 degrees centigrade.
 
supposedly graphite is the new silicone and can hit (theoretically) 50 Ghz but it would start back out at like 50nm- 65nm but the 20 mounted cores would kill anyways.
 
[citation][nom]Haserath[/nom]We've gotten to the point that companies have to start working together to make the transistors smaller. That must mean we're at the point that it is getting close to the end for the transistor to get smaller, but maybe they'll come up with a breakthrough that will keep us going for some years to come.[/citation]


You are quite correct, i work in the industry, and we really are nearing the brick wall...the conventional photolithography tech is not going to be enough very very soon, this partnership is more a necessity more than most people know..
 
[citation][nom]kewlx[/nom]supposedly graphite is the new silicone and can hit (theoretically) 50 Ghz but it would start back out at like 50nm- 65nm but the 20 mounted cores would kill anyways.[/citation]

i thought that it was more in the range of 250 to 500 in lab settings off air, but that was basically emulated, nothing was fabricated yet.

50ghz if done right would be the basic equivilant of what, a current 10 core processor in terms of power, except when applications only take advantage of 1 core, this is where they shine.
 
[citation][nom]ikefu[/nom]At 22nm a transistor is only about 200 atoms wide. Therefore 10nm would be only about 91 atoms across.Much smaller and you start to lose structural integrity and run into other quantum road blocks. I think the next major push (which is already starting) is efficiency. How many instructions per clock cycle can you push with the same die size?[/citation]
When you generalize atoms, are you saying all types of elements? Each element has their own radius.
 
10 nanometers would be nice, but quantum physics start playing games with everything. Quantum holes will occur leading to transistor failure. The thing to do is research at tri-atomic transistor or work with graphene. I wouldn't mind seeing Solid State Hydrogen 'chip' at all even.
 
[citation][nom]reprotected[/nom]When you generalize atoms, are you saying all types of elements? Each element has their own radius.[/citation]

Yes, because more than likely we're going to have different elements building all of our transistors. Can I get mine made out of bananas? I'm pretty sure banana is an element.
 
I hope AMD teams with IBM on this.

In February 2010, researchers at IBM reported that they have been able to create graphene transistors with an on and off rate of 100 gigahertz, far exceeding the rates of previous attempts, and exceeding the speed of silicon. The 240 nm graphene transistors made at IBM were made using extant silicon-manufacturing equipment, meaning that for the first time graphene transistors are a conceivable—though still fanciful—replacement for silicon.
Click to expand...



[citation][nom]reprotected[/nom]When you generalize atoms, are you saying all types of elements? Each element has their own radius.[/citation]
We know what material is used, so we know what atom's "size" is, WTF is your problem?
 
[citation][nom]reprotected[/nom]When you generalize atoms, are you saying all types of elements? Each element has their own radius.[/citation]
Silicon: 0.11nm Carbon: 0.07nm

But we're really gonna have to look at electron spin by 2020 (which is actually quite soon). Of course, we'll probably put that off until graphene (carbon) hits its limit around 2018.

Then again, if the main stream switches to graphene processors with 100GHz clock rates...then I really don't care what we're doing 10 years from now. I'll be happy with mankind's advances in quantum manufacturing. Or I'll be pissed that we haven't researched electron spin for signaling--more likely I'll be disappointed with mankind, which really isn't fair.
 
You guys are talking about faster chips, but anything over 4 ghz isn't that technically micro waves?

And I know not a huge issue smaller chip, 4 ghz but if you are talking significant speeds over that can't it become dangerous?
 
[citation][nom]whitey_rolls[/nom]You guys are talking about faster chips, but anything over 4 ghz isn't that technically micro waves?And I know not a huge issue smaller chip, 4 ghz but if you are talking significant speeds over that can't it become dangerous?[/citation]

...Hertz is a general measurement of cycles that's used across multiple fields. That's like saying 5.8Ghz Cordless phones would fry your brain after talking on the phone for a few minutes, but they don't. No worries.
 
[citation][nom]nebun[/nom]here is a problem, who will own the patent?[/citation]
Wow. I'll bet this blew them away. I'm sure they never thought of that, or they don't know what to do even though they've done this 100's of times before.
 
[citation][nom]kewlx[/nom]supposedly graphite is the new silicone and can hit (theoretically) 50 Ghz but it would start back out at like 50nm- 65nm but the 20 mounted cores would kill anyways.[/citation]

Actually, a graphene transistor is capable of speeds in the 100 GHz range. So quite significantly faster.

So yes, the faster we start getting some graphene chips out there, the better, but this is probably 10+ years away.
 


I think that's cold fusion? Or whatever the near 0 resistance conductor deal is. It's difficult to even imagine what will be here 20 years from now when we look at the past 20 years of tech improvements.
 
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