Intel to discuss client PC platform roadmap with investors.
Intel to Disclose Client PC Platform Roadmap Next Week : Read more
Intel to Disclose Client PC Platform Roadmap Next Week : Read more
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The consumer chips with 30+ threads aren't enough? If you need lanes, then I guess you gotta shell out forJust give us affordable HEDT again, that's all we're asking.
The consumer chips with 30+ threads aren't enough? If you need lanes, then I guess you gotta shell out for Ryzen pro.
When half the threads are gimped then yes.The consumer chips with 30+ threads aren't enough? If you need lanes, then I guess you gotta shell out for Ryzen pro.
I read elsewhere that the 34-core Raptor Lake is 100% a workstation chip, as those are all P-cores. No idea why they called it Raptor S, though. I wonder if the Sapphire Rapids monolithic workstation chips are internally called Alder S? They go up to 24 cores.
My point being that if a consumer platform does not cover your needs, I gave a one of them but not all, you can get aThere's more to HEDT than just threads/cores (and efficiency cores do not cut it!). Mostly a 4 channel memory controller which provides double the throughput but also double the capacity. Or, better speeds at he same capacity when you need 4 modules to achieve the required capacity. And ECC would be nice. Probably not from Intel, if history is any indication, but one would hope that being the underdog changes their perspective WRT market segmentation.
Then there's the PCIe connectivity. Since on desktop chips it's not enough, MB manufacturers are forced to guess the actual use case in order to come up with the slot distribution. This has had the effect that high-end MBs have worse distribution because current high-end GPUs (which you are supposed to use on a high-end MB, I guess) occupy up to 4 slots. And the first one is usually taken by the M.2 slot because you are supposed to use oversized CPU coolers which may interfere with the card in the first slot so it's risky to place the the GPU slot at the first position. Just give me four x16 slots (supporting 4x4 bifurcation) at positions 1,3,5,7 and three x4 slots in at least x8 physical slots at positions 2, 4 ,6. If that's not enough, then you clearly need a higher end workstation class machine and those are available. But currently, there's a huge gap between desktops and workstations that was traditionally filled by HEDT.
My first encounter with a HEDT machine was when I had to assemble a machne for a friend in 2018. He had pretty high expectations that were impossible to meet with regular boards because they were full with conditions like, if you use this SATA port, then this M.2 slot is disabled; when you use that M.2 slot, some PCIe slot gets disabled. It was impossible to judge the capabilities of the MB from the ports that you see on the photos. So I picked a 12-core (at that time this was huge!) Threadripper 1920X with a X399 MB. Man, whan a relief! Everything was usable without affecting anything else. Ok, the U.2 port was just an alternative for one of the M.2 slots but there were three of those, all directly connected to the CPU! I was so impressed that I bought the same machine for myself. He is currently rocking 128GB (8x16GB) for ECC DDR4 memory, whereas I am only at 64GB(4x16). I have 7 NVMe SSDs (3 on the MB slots and 4 in an adapter running in a 4x4 bifurcated x16 slot).
I'm simply trying to convey that just because your needs are covered by a regular desktop machine, there aren't people whose needs might require something more, without jumping all the way to the highest end workstations. Those are fine, of course - you can always use a more powerfull machine for lesser workloads. But that may be 2-3 times more expensive than is possible with a real middle ground HEDT platform.
The monolithic dies top out at 4 memory channels and 64 PCIe lanes.Yep, it is coming back. 4, 6 and 8 channel memory. Up to 4 compute dies each with 15 CPU cores and two memory controllers.
Looky here: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-sapphire-rapids-ws-lineup-leakThough looks like the top spec chip will only have 56 cores. Not sure where they will draw the line between server and workstation. 34 cores seems reasonable. Almost double the old 18 cores.
I think you're confusing Ryzen Pro with ThreadRipper Pro. Ryzen Pro offers very little beyond what you get in a normal Ryzen CPU/APU.My point being that if a consumer platform does not cover your needs, I gave a one of them but not all, you can get a Ryzen pro system which does cover all of those needs.
HEDT usually enables overclocking in exchange for disabling ECC. Most proper workstation users want ECC and therefore won't simply substitute with a HEDT, while gamers want overclocking that's usually (but not always) disallowed in true workstation CPUs (arguably, for reliability reasons).The problem with HEDT is it eats into workstation profits because its essentially the same with with all the same features but much cheaper.
I think what really hurt the HEDT market was when you could start to get a 32-thread desktop CPU. Not a lot of gamers will need more than that. And most of the people who do (be it cores or platform features, like memory channels/capacity or PCIe lanes) can spring for a proper workstation CPU.My point is that I don't understand how on a business side putting out HEDT again to undermine your own workstation profits does the company any good.
Correct, I meant Threadripper Pro.I think you're confusing Ryzen Pro with ThreadRipper Pro. Ryzen Pro offers very little beyond what you get in a normal Ryzen CPU/APU.
Except if we are talking about AMD all their CPUs are compatible with ECC memory if my memory serves, the problem them comes in finding a motherboard to support it at the consumer level.HEDT usually enables overclocking in exchange for disabling ECC. Most proper workstation users want ECC and therefore won't simply substitute with a HEDT, while gamers want overclocking that's usually (but not always) disallowed in true workstation CPUs (arguably, for reliability reasons).
The HEDT market was squeezed from above and below as we have detailed. How Intel is going to revive the HEDT market is more of a headscratcher for me , but its an all-round win for consumers either way, more options are nearly always better.I think what really hurt the HEDT market was when you could start to get a 32-thread desktop CPU. Not a lot of gamers will need more than that. And most of the people who do (be it cores or platform features, like memory channels/capacity or PCIe lanes) can spring for a proper workstation CPU.
Why is it that praising AMD is done so much that we need a rival product to cease doing so? What about how AMD having this product and gaining praise for it over Intel not having it is concerning you?hope they bring HBM to consumer chips so we can stop praising x3d from AMD so much
Well, I was talking about Intel.Except if we are talking about AMD all their CPUs are compatible with ECC memory if my memory serves, the problem them comes in finding a motherboard to support it at the consumer level.
I was not aware of the APU's not having ECC support. What exactly do we mean when we say APU's here? Are AMD's 7000 series processors also considered APU's? I believe the 7000 series processors have limited ECC support, no? DDR5 has some form of ECC but not full ECC, right?Well, I was talking about Intel.
Also, AMD APUs have ECC support disabled. That's where you're forced to buy a Ryzen Pro, if you want ECC. And they don't sell those on the open market.
Sorry, I should have clarified I was talking about 5000-series and before. I haven't followed the 7000-series closely enough to have seen anything about ECC support, but also the whole series hasn't launched yet. So, it's probably too soon to draw any conclusions about models with bigger iGPUs (i.e. equivalent to the older APUs).I was not aware of the APU's not having ECC support. What exactly do we mean when we say APU's here? Are AMD's 7000 series processors also considered APU's?
DDR5 does on-die ECC, but that's not exposed externally to the DIMM, nor does it protect against data errors that occur between the memory dies and the host CPU (by default). There are DDR5 DIMMs with end-to-end ECC, but they're supported only on Intel W680 motherboards + select CPU models (among Intel desktop platforms) and are still hard to find (i.e. in unbuffered form).DDR5 has some form of ECC but not full ECC, right?