News Intel Unveils 22 More Affordable Alder Lake-S Desktop Chips, New Laminar Coolers

[Admin]

Intel unveiled 22 new Alder Lake CPUs during its CES 2022 keynote and revealed a new lineup of bundled Laminar chip coolers.

Intel Unveils 22 More Affordable Alder Lake-S Desktop Chips, New Laminar Coolers : Read more

 

[Why_Me]

The pricing of the B660 boards is going to be important. Hopefully they aren't in the $200 range.

 

[saltweaver]

How much will performance drop in 65W desktop processors?

 

[larkspur]

How much will performance drop in 65W desktop processors?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i5-12400-review

 

[-Fran-]

How much will performance drop in 65W desktop processors?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydgN4W97Esk


I gotta say, even at 65W, that thing is really good for the price. Let's see how the B660 boards stack in price, but they better be cheap. If they're a direct replacement to B560 (which, Z590 to Z690 wasn't), they'll be the new go-to budget option for sure.

Under that, I am willing to say going for the 6+0 configuration may even be a bad idea at this point. Them little cores are showing their weight more in lower TDP scenarios than high TDP ones, which is I think was Intel's long term play. Maybe? In any case, It would be nice if they could have a locked i5 with 4 E-cores at some point. That thing for sure will be the best CPU of the lineup for all gamers.

Regards.

 

[shady28]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydgN4W97Esk


I gotta say, even at 65W, that thing is really good for the price. Let's see how the B660 boards stack in price, but they better be cheap. If they're a direct replacement to B560 (which, Z590 to Z690 wasn't), they'll be the new go-to budget option for sure.

Under that, I am willing to say going for the 6+0 configuration may even be a bad idea at this point. Them little cores are showing their weight more in lower TDP scenarios than high TDP ones, which is I think was Intel's long term play. Maybe? In any case, It would be nice if they could have a locked i5 with 4 E-cores at some point. That thing for sure will be the best CPU of the lineup for all gamers.

Regards.

Yeah but are there any low end gamers left keeps coming to my mind.

Who's gonna stick a $300 cpu/mobo combo on a $800+ GPU (bottom end of what a 3060 Ti costs)? If I'm going to have to pay that kind of bank on a GPU on a new rig, I'm most likely going to go for more CPU than that.

ARC might be the savior. We'll see. That's probably bigger news. These low power AL chips are great, but I think will mostly benefit the OEM side until GPUs come down a lot.

 

[peachpuff]

The pricing of the B660 boards is going to be important. Hopefully they aren't in the $200 range.

$189 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-mag-b660m-mortar-wifi-ddr4 dubbed inexpensive by the author

 

[Why_Me]

$189 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-mag-b660m-mortar-wifi-ddr4 dubbed inexpensive by the author

That's a higher end B660 board imo.

This is the B560 equivalent of that board.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144395
MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI $159.99 Save: $20.00 (11%)

 

[Why_Me]

Yeah but are there any low end gamers left keeps coming to my mind.

Who's gonna stick a $300 cpu/mobo combo on a $800+ GPU (bottom end of what a 3060 Ti costs)? If I'm going to have to pay that kind of bank on a GPU on a new rig, I'm most likely going to go for more CPU than that.

ARC might be the savior. We'll see. That's probably bigger news. These low power AL chips are great, but I think will mostly benefit the OEM side until GPUs come down a lot.

Review done today with a B660 board.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i5-12400-processor-review,1.html

 

[VforV]

These CPUs although have good performance for their price, the motherboards will be more expensive than the AM4 counterparts (as seen above), while also not having the option to OC the CPU (if you upgrade to a K SKU later), that's a big miss as a feature. So more expensive and no CPU OC = bad deal.

I actually like more the SKUs without E-cores. All that hybrid thing has proven is not better, but mostly worse for games - see the benchmark with them disabled, the performance increases quite a lot in many games.

On that regard AL as a 1st gen is like Ryzen 1st gen = skipp-able. Too many issues, not optimized, growing pains and all the early adopter things, like decent prices for CPUs, but higher prices for the platform.

AL is viable only for someone that wants a new system, for everyone else already on AM4, not so much. If you already have a Zen3 CPU, AL is really a non-issue.

 

[m3city]

Productivity screenshot no 1: i5 12600 vs 5700G, the latter being slighly more expensive here in EU. Lets assume that those selected benchmarks show ~20% lead by Intel, shall we? Base power 125W, boost 150W. How much would Ryzen (TDP65W) go - 90W? From my point of view it's just more warm air to be moved from my SFF case. Intel is simply ineefective at high load. On idle it probably goes better than AMD. 5700G has an adequate cooler in box, 12600 doesn't - why? Is it just a matter of price? Why intel CPU's come without it?

 

[larkspur]

On that regard AL as a 1st gen is like Ryzen 1st gen = skipp-able. Too many issues, not optimized, growing pains and all the early adopter things, like decent prices for CPUs, but higher prices for the platform.

For gaming Zen 1 weren't the best chips on the market. Right out of the gate, AL are. Seems pretty trivial to disable the E cores if you want to. Sounds like a nice option. As for motherboard prices, they will generally be similar. I think equivalent AMD boards will be slightly less due to less and less interest in an AM4 system. But prices for equivalent AMD CPUs need to go down more to be competitive on price/perf. With the rather lackluster 5800X3D and 12900KS announcements the next big desktop CPU release looks like Zen 4 and the AM5 platform. Folks that can hold off till then will, while folks who need a new PC today will go AL.

If you check out the price history of the AMD MSI B550 MAG Mortar Wifi on PCPartpicker you'll see the board usually sells for $200. It's a good board. If the Intel MSI MAG B660 Mortar Wifi is $189 that would be awesome. But it'll probably be more like $200. Either way the platform cost is less for Intel since the CPUs are so much less.

 

[VforV]

For gaming Zen 1 weren't the best chips on the market. Right out of the gate, AL are. Seems pretty trivial to disable the E cores if you want to. Sounds like a nice option. As for motherboard prices, they will generally be similar. I think equivalent AMD boards will be slightly less due to less and less interest in an AM4 system. But prices for equivalent AMD CPUs need to go down more to be competitive on price/perf. With the rather lackluster 5800X3D and 12900KS announcements the next big desktop CPU release looks like Zen 4 and the AM5 platform. Folks that can hold off till then will, while folks who need a new PC today will go AL.

If you check out the price history of the AMD MSI B550 MAG Mortar Wifi on PCPartpicker you'll see the board usually sells for $200. It's a good board. If the Intel MSI MAG B660 Mortar Wifi is $189 that would be awesome. But it'll probably be more like $200. Either way the platform cost is less for Intel since the CPUs are so much less.

When I said "like Ryzen 1st gen" I meant the drawbacks of being 1st gen of a new architecture. Sure AL has better perf than Zen1 had vs competition then vs now, but AL still has A LOT of 1st gen issues & drawbacks that come with it, that's the part that I don't like at all.

Zen3 needs to drop in prices, I agree.

According to guru3d MSI B660M Mortar will cost $239 US for the WiFi variant and $219 US for the non-WiFi variant. According to wccftech it will cost more, $259 US.

Here are the links
1 > https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-mag-b660m-mortar-wifi-review,1.html
2 > https://wccftech.com/review/intel-c...-motherboard-undoubtedly-the-new-budget-king/

AL motherboards are more expensive across the board than AM4 ones, so in the end the price difference is much smaller, even now with high Zen3 prices.

 

[larkspur]

According to guru3d MSI B660M Mortar will cost $239 US for the WiFi variant and $219 US for the non-WiFi variant. According to wccftech it will cost more, $259 US.

Those are the DDR5 versions and would also require higher RAM prices. The DDR4 wifi version is expected to be less although we'll see what the actual street price is.

 

[shady28]

When I said "like Ryzen 1st gen" I meant the drawbacks of being 1st gen of a new architecture. Sure AL has better perf than Zen1 had vs competition then vs now, but AL still has A LOT of 1st gen issues & drawbacks that come with it, that's the part that I don't like at all.

Zen3 needs to drop in prices, I agree.

According to guru3d MSI B660M Mortar will cost $239 US for the WiFi variant and $219 US for the non-WiFi variant. According to wccftech it will cost more, $259 US.

Here are the links
1 > https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-mag-b660m-mortar-wifi-review,1.html
2 > https://wccftech.com/review/intel-c...-motherboard-undoubtedly-the-new-budget-king/

AL motherboards are more expensive across the board than AM4 ones, so in the end the price difference is much smaller, even now with high Zen3 prices.

You're not factoring in equivalent feature sets though.

Frankly even higher end B550 boards have feature sets (m.2 slot counts, USB gen 2x2 interface counts, SATA ports, and sound chip) that are on the low end of B560 and likely B660 boards. Let's be real, B550 came out about the same time as Z490/B460. They haven't been updated since and the Intel boards keep getting more high speed USB ports and more m.2 slots.

If you say these things don't matter then you can probably get an H610 board with similar features for under $100. And if you're not going to run a AL K-series chip, or memory over DDR4-3200, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[VforV]

You're not factoring in equivalent feature sets though.

Frankly even higher end B550 boards have feature sets (m.2 slot counts, USB gen 2x2 interface counts, SATA ports, and sound chip) that are on the low end of B560 and likely B660 boards. Let's be real, B550 came out about the same time as Z490/B460. They haven't been updated since and the Intel boards keep getting more high speed USB ports and more m.2 slots.

If you say these things don't matter then you can probably get an H610 board with similar features for under $100. And if you're not going to run a AL K-series chip, or memory over DDR4-3200, there's nothing wrong with that.

Sure, they have extra features for more money, which makes sense, but also 1 less feature still for more money, as in NO CPU OC, which does not make sense. But that's intel being scummy with segmentaion, as always (like removing AVX-512 too).

I for one don't need the new features AL has, at all. I don't need pcie 4.0. Actually, I don't even need pcie 3.0 for SSDs, just for the GPU.

When those 4.0 drives and GPUs will matter, then I will need them. No games take advantage of those on PC now, only on PS5.

 

[TerryLaze]

Sure, they have extra features for more money, which makes sense, but also 1 less feature still for more money, as in NO CPU OC, which does not make sense. But that's intel being scummy with segmentaion, as always (like removing AVX-512 too).

Meh, you get lifted power limits which is as good if not better than what extremely limited OC you can do on ryzen before going overboard on cost, and you don't even lose your warranty in doing so.
Actually it's exactly the same overclocking that ryzen has with PBO.

Traditional OC is extremely inefficient and overrides all of the power saving features of modern CPUs, on one hand everybody goes on about how awesome it is how little power CPUs draw now and on the other hand they are all like "screw all that, OC, man! "

 

[shady28]

Sure, they have extra features for more money, which makes sense, but also 1 less feature still for more money, as in NO CPU OC, which does not make sense. But that's intel being scummy with segmentaion, as always (like removing AVX-512 too).

I for one don't need the new features AL has, at all. I don't need pcie 4.0. Actually, I don't even need pcie 3.0 for SSDs, just for the GPU.

When those 4.0 drives and GPUs will matter, then I will need them. No games take advantage of those on PC now, only on PS5.

If you're not using a K-series chip, then you can't overclock anyway.

And like @TerryLaze pointed out, actual OC is of much less benefit than power unlocking, which is itself better than PBO on a Ryzen chip to start with.

I mean literally, if you are not going to use the extra USB and m.2 and so on, and are not going to OC - which is what 90% of Ryzen folks say anyway - then not only is an H610 perfectly fine but there is no reason to get a K series chip either, which is what this article is about (non-k chip release) anyway.

One can get a 12700 or 12700F and run it without issue on an cheap H610 with DDR4 and it will still probably still dust a 5800X and even a 5900X on a B550 in most situations.

 

[saltweaver]

If you're not using a K-series chip, then you can't overclock anyway.

I mean literally, if you are not going to use the extra USB and m.2 and so on, and are not going to OC - which is what 90% of Ryzen folks say anyway - then not only is an H610 perfectly fine but there is no reason to get a K series chip either, which is what this article is about (non-k chip release) anyway.

One can get a 12700 or 12700F and run it without issue on an cheap H610 with DDR4 and it will still probably still dust a 5800X and even a 5900X on a B550 in most situations.

Is H610 chipset VRM robust enough for 12900 non-OC?

 

[-Fran-]

Meh, you get lifted power limits which is as good if not better than what extremely limited OC you can do on ryzen before going overboard on cost, and you don't even lose your warranty in doing so.
Actually it's exactly the same overclocking that ryzen has with PBO.

Traditional OC is extremely inefficient and overrides all of the power saving features of modern CPUs, on one hand everybody goes on about how awesome it is how little power CPUs draw now and on the other hand they are all like "screw all that, OC, man! "

One observation: Intel does state clearly you do lose your warranty if you enable XMP or undervolt as well. So, not quite as you make it sound.

It came to me as a surprise, but they're as strict as AMD in that regard.

EDIT: https://www.pcworld.com/article/394...g-are-ok-even-if-they-void-your-warranty.html

Regards.

 

[TerryLaze]

One observation: Intel does state clearly you do lose your warranty if you enable XMP or undervolt as well. So, not quite as you make it sound.

It came to me as a surprise, but they're as strict as AMD in that regard.

EDIT: https://www.pcworld.com/article/394...g-are-ok-even-if-they-void-your-warranty.html

Regards.

I don't think that PBO includes XMP or undervolting and lifting power limits sure does not include them.
Z boards will often do much more than just lift PL and will do things that will void your warranty like pushing an all core turbo.
I was strictly speaking about PL and nothing else.

 

[TerryLaze]

Is H610 chipset VRM robust enough for 12900 non-OC?

Probably Most likely not at the 240W max turbo but at the base performance of 125 it has to.

 

[shady28]

Is H610 chipset VRM robust enough for 12900 non-OC?

H610 is not a VRM, but I get the question.

Given that my bottom end Z490 10-phase VRM can run near 300W with no problem on a 10850K, I'm going to say that an well equipped H610 with what appears to be either 8 or 10 phases like the MSI H610 at the link below should have no issues with 240W/240W power profiles on a 12900.

That said it is an extreme case for an H610 that isn't really practical. How does the AMD A520 do with a 5950X PBO?

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-H610M-B-DDR4

 

[VforV]

If you're not using a K-series chip, then you can't overclock anyway.

And like @TerryLaze pointed out, actual OC is of much less benefit than power unlocking, which is itself better than PBO on a Ryzen chip to start with.

I mean literally, if you are not going to use the extra USB and m.2 and so on, and are not going to OC - which is what 90% of Ryzen folks say anyway - then not only is an H610 perfectly fine but there is no reason to get a K series chip either, which is what this article is about (non-k chip release) anyway.

One can get a 12700 or 12700F and run it without issue on an cheap H610 with DDR4 and it will still probably still dust a 5800X and even a 5900X on a B550 in most situations.

A missing feature is a missing feature and a higher price while having a missing feature is not a pro. Those are facts, weather you like them or not.

I had my MSI B450M Mortar Max since 3 years ago and I bought it at $120 (best in class in its generation together with Tomahawk). I had Ryzen 2600 which I OC-ed, then I had Ryzen 3600 which I OC-ed, both surpassing stock performance by a good chunk, especially in the 1% lows. Now I have the 5600x on the same board and I can OC it too, I have that option and the VRMs to OC any other CPU if I want to upgrade again to more cores, even 5950X or to 5800X3D.

Besides the obvious great price of that MB, AMD did not lock me into my options, but with scummy intel you cant do that with their mid tier boards only with the much more expensive top tier ones, the Z boards. No TY.

I have almost all the intel shills and brainwashed intel fanbois blocked, so I don't give a flying **** what they say. I'm not wasting time with them anymore.

Also the 12700 or 12700F will not "dust" the 5800X and especially not the 5900X, they will barely win. I love these unreal exaggerations.
Alder Lake did not dust, destroy or obliterate Zen3 in any way, it merely and barely beat it (dusting or destroying would imply a 30-40-50% performance advantage in real use scenarios). I'm talking about games, not synthetic tests (those are like paintings, for bragging only, they have no real use).

Continue with illogical arguments against facts and see yourself to my ignore list too.

 

[Why_Me]

A missing feature is a missing feature and a higher price while having a missing feature is not a pro. Those are facts, weather you like them or not.

I had my MSI B450M Mortar Max since 3 years ago and I bought it at $120 (best in class in its generation together with Tomahawk). I had Ryzen 2600 which I OC-ed, then I had Ryzen 3600 which I OC-ed, both surpassing stock performance by a good chunk, especially in the 1% lows. Now I have the 5600x on the same board and I can OC it too, I have that option and the VRMs to OC any other CPU if I want to upgrade again to more cores, even 5950X or to 5800X3D.

Besides the obvious great price of that MB, AMD did not lock me into my options, but with scummy intel you cant do that with their mid tier boards only with the much more expensive top tier ones, the Z boards. No TY.

I have almost all the intel shills and brainwashed intel fanbois blocked, so I don't give a flying **** what they say. I'm not wasting time with them anymore.

Also the 12700 or 12700F will not "dust" the 5800X and especially not the 5900X, they will barely win. I love these unreal exaggerations.
Alder Lake did not dust, destroy or obliterate Zen3 in any way, it merely and barely beat it (dusting or destroying would imply a 30-40-50% performance advantage in real use scenarios). I'm talking about games, not synthetic tests (those are like paintings, for bragging only, they have no real use).

Continue with illogical arguments against facts and see yourself to my ignore list too.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700f-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118359
Intel Core i7-12700F $329.99

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800x/p/N82E16819113665
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X $378.98

B660 DDR4 board + i7 12700F > AMD Ryzen 7 5800X

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydgN4W97Esk&t=755s


btw what features do you find these B660 DDR4 boards lacking?

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660-TOMAHAWK-WIFI-DDR4

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B660-AORUS-MASTER-DDR4-rev-10#kf

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