Intel Uses Mineral Oil to Cool Servers, Finds Success

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[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]I have always wanted to do an oil cooled PC where it is a tank-within-a-tank system. Have an inner tank with the PC and oil, and then an outer tank full of tropical fish. Sadly, my understanding is that the inner tank would get so hot that it would kill all the fish, so I would need to find some other form of cooling solution to help the fishies out.[/citation]
It totally depends on the species/type of fish you want to use for the temperature range. It's actually an awesome-sounding idea, but another big problem might be heat-cycling. Most species of tank fish prefer a nice constant and stable environment.

[citation][nom]JTWrenn[/nom]I always wondered if you could use mineral oil in a standard water cooling rig to make it safer. Then spills would not be nearly as big an issue, just a bit of a mess. Seems like they must not be corrosive if you can dunk a server in it. I need to do some investimagating.[/citation]
Those with a water-cooled loop use water over any other liquid because it has the highest thermal dissipation rate. Mineral oil would also be very hard to pump through the system (especially the blocks) at a decent flow rate. I would guess that pump life would be drastically cut short as well. There are some coolants out there that advertise themselves as non-conductive, I wouldn't hold my breath on that marketing claim though.
 
There was a contest on Tom's last year that I remember someone suggesting this idea. I researched it and thought it was pretty nice. But the problem is the right balance of price and components. If you're buying mineral oil in bulk (note that it has to be mineral oil not vegetable or cooking oil) you can save some money, but relative to water coolant it is more expensive liter for liter. Other than that you would seem to need most of the stuff you normally need for a water cooling setup, minus the water blocks, but with a bit better than average specs because of oil being harder to push around than oil. Also, fans may have a trouble spinning if the oil's viscosity is too high. When oil heats up it thins out, so fans will eventually pick up speed, but it wont really offer any cooling benefit. Finally, you probably want a relatively large tank. Note in the picture that the server container seems relatively large. Having one too small means you need to cool the oil more because it heats up faster. I'll probably be actually attempting this soon with a NAS, so I'll be researching the details again soon.
 
[citation][nom]Zingam[/nom]Yeah, new business! Oil change for computers! Nice one Intel!!! Keep on![/citation]

Free system checkup with every oil change 😀
 
I wanted to throw my computer in an old 10 gallon fish tank and fill it with oil, but it would cost around 100 for 2 5 gallon buckets not including shipping. Still it seems like a fun project.
 



I think the article does explain it but maybe not very well.
Thermodynamically you are right, it is the same heat that needs to be dispersed.

But also thermodynamically, the point is it is easier to move a volume of heat energy from 1 place to another using a fluid transport then air. Imagine how much heat energy a pot of boiling water can hold. Imagine how much hot air do you need to store that equal amount of energy? and how inconvenient is it to contain that energy?

Just as it is more efficient to get the heat energy from your cpu into the liquid, it is also more efficient to do the heat transfer on a liquid at the final stage to get that energy out into exhaust or the outside environment.


So, just by being a liquid, watercooling and oil have the same order of magnitude liquid advantages in storing a volume of energy and getting it out.

Next, the interesting thing here with the oil is you can just submerge the whole thing, and not worry about the tubing/ pumps and leaks that could damage the computer; as well as probably increased efficiency from extra contact and using large volume flow.

I think all of that adds up to the 2-3% energy overhead figure for cooling, as compared to 10-20% in efficient data centers (probably using alternative cooling mechanisms) and 40-50% for standard servers(like using standard Air conditioning HVAC).

But they just didn't break it down.

If they really ignored all cooling like you think they did and said it's passive, then they would say the overhead would be 0%. but they are saying it's 2-3%.
 
No offense to the do it yourself experts on here, but I am sure that if Intel is actually marketing this product then it works. Intel does not do "fly by nighters."
 
[citation][nom]SteelCity1981[/nom]White Mineral Spirit does a great job cleaning off Mineral Oil.[/citation]Can you guarantee it is 100% safe for all materials used in these systems?[citation][nom]bucknutty[/nom]I wanted to throw my computer in an old 10 gallon fish tank and fill it with oil, but it would cost around 100 for 2 5 gallon buckets not including shipping. Still it seems like a fun project.[/citation]Uh, don't do that. Not without removing the HDD(s) and optical drive(s) first, or at least mounting them high enough where they won't be submerged. SSDs are OK though. Plus you'd want to be able to access the optical drive occasionally, and you'll want a USB hub or top-mounted USB ports so you have some ports that don't require you to go diving.

If you really wanted to do this, why not put a bit of sand (so they don't float) in a bunch of empty plastic 2-liter bottles and shove them in there (with the caps reinstalled) to displace a lot of liquid?

If you were planning on doing it long-term, you'd want a better solution than an old 10 gallon fish tank anyway. Like a custom acrylic PC case. One that doesn't get filled with oil to the brim, but rather has a dry compartment on top with a working fan to keep your drives dry and happy, and also to host all your external connections.
 
If you submerge your PC, is it safe to take off your fan from your heatsink?

 
[citation][nom]southernshark[/nom]No offense to the do it yourself experts on here, but I am sure that if Intel is actually marketing this product then it works. Intel does not do "fly by nighters."[/citation]I'm still waiting for my 10Ghz Netburst... hey, think you could do it with some mineral oil cooling?

My point is that while I'm sure it works, I wonder if their figures might be a bit optimistic for a real-world server farm. If it was really THAT good, I'd be stunned that Google et al haven't looked into it harder. After all, as the article points out, this technology is fairly old.
 
I think I ejected my own mineral oil when I glimpsed on that system being dunked in literal coolness. There are several downsides to it, but seeing a system suspended in a translucent, non-conductive, cooling fluid really appeals to me. On a side note, is this available for the retail consumer?
 
[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]I'm still waiting for my 10Ghz Netburst... hey, think you could do it with some mineral oil cooling?My point is that while I'm sure it works, I wonder if their figures might be a bit optimistic for a real-world server farm. If it was really THAT good, I'd be stunned that Google et al haven't looked into it harder. After all, as the article points out, this technology is fairly old.[/citation]

We've had dual-core CPUs or at least Hyper-Threaded single-core CPUs for almost a decade. Even today, single threaded or multi-threaded apps that favor a single thread greatly are very common. We've had flash memory for several decades, but it's only two or three years ago where SSDs truly started to shine like they do today and even then, most people don't use them in ways where their full performance is even near being achieved, let alone for extended periods of time, at least not often.

We've had many very good memory technologies such as SONOS and SHINOS that have the advantages of flash and only a fraction of its disadvantages for about as long as we've had flash, yet they aren't mass-produced. The list goes on. Being good and old does not mean that something gets much usage.
 
someone tell me this, i relember mineral oil cooling from a while ago, at least in a home setup, you still need to have a liquid cooler loop right?

is that the same for server boards? or are server boards cooled in a more... passive way?
 
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]someone tell me this, i relember mineral oil cooling from a while ago, at least in a home setup, you still need to have a liquid cooler loop right? is that the same for server boards? or are server boards cooled in a more... passive way?[/citation]

It might be more passive, but it isn't truly passive because it still uses energy. Theoretically, I bet that they could make a large radiator sticking out of the oil and cool it passively, but that might hinder dense computing nodes more than it would be worth to get truly passive cooling with the mineral oil and although it would decrease cooling power consumption to more or less zero, it would increase the initial cost significantly. I don't know which would be more expensive in a reasonable time frame. There are probably some low-power radiators of some sort or something else cooling the oil that don't seem to be fully shown in the picture.
 
[citation][nom]M1n3Kraft[/nom]If you submerge your PC, is it safe to take off your fan from your heatsink?[/citation]
Yes, thermal convection and the general heat dissipation in the oil is more than enough to get the heat away from the system, you do not need a large volume of fluid to move over the heat-sink for this to work properly. The way this (or any liquid cooling) behaves is that the entire fluid will take on one generally consistant temperature. Putting the fluid through a bigger radiator (or in the case of oil, an enclosure with more surface area) lowers the temperature of the entire loop/system, not just the part immediately after the radiator. It seems counter intuitive, but that is how it works.
That being said, the oil will not hurt the fans (it acts like a nice constant lube job for them), and the slow spinning fans just look surreal if your setup is in a glass/plexi enclosure (as well as ensures that there is some oil movement, because you do need some movement)
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]someone tell me this, i relember mineral oil cooling from a while ago, at least in a home setup, you still need to have a liquid cooler loop right? is that the same for server boards? or are server boards cooled in a more... passive way?[/citation]
Typically, for a home oil system you simply take a fish tank, install your parts, and simply fill it with oil. no tubes. no pumps, no radiators, no filters, just computer+Oil=awesome (obviously mounting the HDD outside or above as you do not want to get oil inside a HDD and slow down the platter... but SSDs 'should' be fine). Obviously the sides of the fish tank become your 'radiator' where your heat is transferred from the oil to the room's air. In a larger system (see pugitsound's website) you may need to have a larger tank (or at least one with more surface area), or add some form of radiator or heat pipe system to help with additional cooling. But due to the nature of the oil you do not need to have cooler oil specifically passed over your parts, or contained in blocks on a loop. The entire system (meaning fluid system, not computer system) will take on a single consistent temperature, and cooling one part of the system will cool the entire unit. This is also true for those few brave souls who have done this with pure deionized water (which is also non-conductive), you just fill the tank and let it run. But obviously with the water its a bit scarier as just a small amount of impurities can cause a whole lot of issues which oil is not as prone to.

One of the thoughts for my 'fish bowl' idea would be to have the mineral oil tank have some form of heat pipe system with a radiator that had a silent 200mm fan on it. Technically the heat pipes would not need to be enclosed like traditional pipes as the metal itself should be good enough, and you would not need to even pump the fluid through the radiator (though I am sure that would be more effective... just not necessary). One of these days (maybe when my son is older) I will definitely have to give this a try, but for now I am happy to keep my parts on nice cheap air coolers 😀
 
[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]I'm still waiting for my 10Ghz Netburst... hey, think you could do it with some mineral oil cooling?My point is that while I'm sure it works, I wonder if their figures might be a bit optimistic for a real-world server farm. If it was really THAT good, I'd be stunned that Google et al haven't looked into it harder. After all, as the article points out, this technology is fairly old.[/citation]
The tech is really old, but it has some inherant draw-backs.

-If a part fails, it becomes harder to repair or replace
-HDDs cannot be cooled this way as oil could get into the drive and slow down the platter, as things move more to SSD this becomes less of an issue, but you are not going to typically invest in 2 cooling solutions when a single solution is adequate for the task.
-Oil is an expensive upfront cost. $100 to get enough to submerge a traditional desktop with a low heat output... It would take a lot more oil to submerge several 8' racks of servers that are running very hot CPUs. I think they would rather spend that money on a few extra solar panels to pay for the fan and AC power requirements, and get a little PR boost while they are at it. Why use less energy when you can simply make more?
-Techs love standards that are proven over time, oil is not standardized and has not been used for this application before, and so oil is not used. Put another way; It is one thing to waste a $1-2000 PC on a project that may or may not work, and quite another thing to put a $200,000+ server in it, have it fail, and then have your business loose millions or billions of $$ every day that the system is down. Such risks are not taken.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]It might be more passive, but it isn't truly passive because it still uses energy. Theoretically, I bet that they could make a large radiator sticking out of the oil and cool it passively, but that might hinder dense computing nodes more than it would be worth to get truly passive cooling with the mineral oil and although it would decrease cooling power consumption to more or less zero, it would increase the initial cost significantly. I don't know which would be more expensive in a reasonable time frame. There are probably some low-power radiators of some sort or something else cooling the oil that don't seem to be fully shown in the picture.[/citation]

what i meant was do server boards have the big eff you heatsyncs that consumer grade gets (im thinking amd with their stock, not intel with their... piddly stock. or are they put in the server and have air blow down them, not nessassarily on the heat sync, but across the whole board?

[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]Yes, thermal convection and the general heat dissipation in the oil is more than enough to get the heat away from the system, you do not need a large volume of fluid to move over the heat-sink for this to work properly. The way this (or any liquid cooling) behaves is that the entire fluid will take on one generally consistant temperature. Putting the fluid through a bigger radiator (or in the case of oil, an enclosure with more surface area) lowers the temperature of the entire loop/system, not just the part immediately after the radiator. It seems counter intuitive, but that is how it works.That being said, the oil will not hurt the fans (it acts like a nice constant lube job for them), and the slow spinning fans just look surreal if your setup is in a glass/plexi enclosure (as well as ensures that there is some oil movement, because you do need some movement)Typically, for a home oil system you simply take a fish tank, install your parts, and simply fill it with oil. no tubes. no pumps, no radiators, no filters, just computer+Oil=awesome (obviously mounting the HDD outside or above as you do not want to get oil inside a HDD and slow down the platter... but SSDs 'should' be fine). Obviously the sides of the fish tank become your 'radiator' where your heat is transferred from the oil to the room's air. In a larger system (see pugitsound's website) you may need to have a larger tank (or at least one with more surface area), or add some form of radiator or heat pipe system to help with additional cooling. But due to the nature of the oil you do not need to have cooler oil specifically passed over your parts, or contained in blocks on a loop. The entire system (meaning fluid system, not computer system) will take on a single consistent temperature, and cooling one part of the system will cool the entire unit. This is also true for those few brave souls who have done this with pure deionized water (which is also non-conductive), you just fill the tank and let it run. But obviously with the water its a bit scarier as just a small amount of impurities can cause a whole lot of issues which oil is not as prone t😵ne of the thoughts for my 'fish bowl' idea would be to have the mineral oil tank have some form of heat pipe system with a radiator that had a silent 200mm fan on it. Technically the heat pipes would not need to be enclosed like traditional pipes as the metal itself should be good enough, and you would not need to even pump the fluid through the radiator (though I am sure that would be more effective... just not necessary). One of these days (maybe when my son is older) I will definitely have to give this a try, but for now I am happy to keep my parts on nice cheap air coolers[/citation]

last time i read a how to on oil immersion, it was recommended that you use a liquid cool loop for the hot spots like the cpu and the gpu, granted that was about 2-4 years ago i read it, but still.

lets assume non overclock, you no longer need a liquid loop?
 
[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]I have always wanted to do an oil cooled PC where it is a tank-within-a-tank system. Have an inner tank with the PC and oil, and then an outer tank full of tropical fish. Sadly, my understanding is that the inner tank would get so hot that it would kill all the fish, so I would need to find some other form of cooling solution to help the fishies out.Also, I would have to have a PC worth sacrificing to the cause. I'm not about to do it with my i7... and I don't think I can convince my wife to let me try it with her computer... If only I had a gullible neighbor...[/citation]
Simple: Just go three layers down. A tank within a tank within a tank!

Inception PC baby.
 
[citation][nom]jtd871[/nom]Puget Systems sells Aquarium PC kits for adventurous DIYers.http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/0 [...] _the_fans/http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.phpThey claim no problems even with submerged fans. They were cautious with mechanical HDDs, though.[/citation]

As long as the viscosity of the oil is low there is no issues with normal fans. Built a "oil" pc back in the days and had the HDD raid on the outside. Nothing like a PC in a aquarium!
 
The more things change, the more they stay the same. When I was in college, we got a speedy new IBM mainframe. The core had 143 chips and was water-cooled. The water circulated in a plate, and aluminum fingers were pressed, by springs, against the top of the chips.

Anyone remember what model that was? Oh, got it. That was the 3081. Two CPUs, only 23 KW, and 39 Mhz. Figures from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3081
 
Why not just use a nicer non-conductive fluid? Isopropyl Alcohol comes to mind, but hexanol or some other long-chain fatty alcohol might work even better, as an added bonus keeping the components clean.
 
[citation][nom]why_not[/nom]Why not just use a nicer non-conductive fluid? Isopropyl Alcohol comes to mind, but hexanol or some other long-chain fatty alcohol might work even better, as an added bonus keeping the components clean.[/citation]

Alcohol is flammable, and you will have an air pocket in oil cooled systems.
 
This is way cool. I just hope not to have any Exxon Valdez incidents happening inside my rig. Because that would bite the big one.
 
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