[SOLVED] Intel vs AMD for 4K Gaming in 2020, i7-9700K vs Ryzen 7 3700x or i5-9600K vs i5-8400, nVidia vs Radeon and Much More!

[Zadkhiel]

Cheers all !

2019 is almost over and I AM GOING CRAZY reading forums, reviews and watching videos and benchmarks for MONTHS NOW !

I need A SOLID CPU AND MOTHERBOARD FOR GAMING. So I would much appreciate your help.

I'm usually watching movies, tv series or playing games on my 55" Oled TV at 1080p (So im stuck at this resolution until later nex year, when I can afford to buy a new 4K TV and GPU)

I was this close to go for a Ryzen 7 3700x, but then I read hundreds of forums of desperate people that have so many problems with either the BIOS of the motherboards, the CPU, the software, windows, or even random issues like crashing, freezing, resetting, boot failure and so on . . .

I mean, there are so many problems with AMD even in 2020 that I cant believe . . .

I have been a Intel owner for at least 13 years or more and I NEVER HAD ISSUES LIKE AMD !

No, I'm not a fanboy but I value stability and compatibility the most !

Oh, intending to go 4K in 2020 also so future proofing would be nice, specially cause I intend to keep the CPU for 3 to 5 years.

Budget: I could stretch for the top CPU's, but giving the fact that I basically don't do any work and I mostly game on the PC, would be nice to allocate some money in a good GPU for 4K future proof !

MY BUILD WILL BE:

ASUS MOTHERBOARD (Most likely ) ??

32GB OF RAM G.SKILL 3600Mhz

GTX 1060 6GB ( I'm stuck with for now, but will UPGRADE TO A 2080 SUPER, somewhere in 2020 after the prices drop down)

PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE BETWEEN:

Intel I7 9700k vs Ryzen 7 3700x
or
Intel i59600k vs i5 8400

P.S - I now have a i7 7700 (NON K) with 16 GB RAM and a GTX 1060 6GB

IS IT WORTH UPGRADING ( The CPU+Motherboard+RAM) FOR 4K AND FUTURE PROOFING ? Or should I buy a GTX 2070 or 2080 SUPER and stick with my current config?

Thank you kindly !

 

[drea.drechsler]

What about the huge amount of problems with AMD ??? 😱
...

The result of novice builders who've been misinformed and then hyped themselves with unrealistic expectations regarding irrelevant technical details mostly. Add in that we're dealing with the woke generation that blows up any slight, real or imagined, on social forums, e.g., Reddit, and that's what you get.

AMD had some problems on roll-out, they've worked through them with the latest BIOS updates. They've also worked with Microsoft to improve the Windows scheduler making it CPU topology aware and more similar to how various Linux builds work. And they have TRIED to educate the general public on some fairly technical aspects of how they made their processor so remarkably power efficient but which also make them appear to operate differently than what we're used to seeing. But it seems there are a lot of self-described semiconductor physicists on the nets who profess to know better than AMD does and declare it "broke" when it's doing what it's supposed to. I'll trust AMD to know better, thank you.

And lastly, some board mfr's do what board mfr's do...cutting corners in some areas and slow-rolling updates to boards lower down in their stack. So you learn which/who to avoid and move on. Don't overstate that issue to make it bigger than it is.

If/when you get down to specifics, and ask for some recommends, you'll get specifics back. There are a lot of reasonable people here who've had experiences, both good and bad, and will share. As for me, I've got an 8 core 3700X on what is a budget board, B450m Mortar. It's working, I would have to say, flawlessly, hitting max clocks on up to 3 cores in light/bursty loads as designed and memory clocked at 3600MTps, CAS 14.

It's very fast and well beyond my needs I have to admit. For gaming my GPU, a 5700XT, is the clear bottleneck with the CPU loafing along at 30-40% utilization in any title. I like to game at very-high to ultra settings, 1440p. I also like huge open-world games with terrific graphics (sight-seeing is just as much the attraction), like Witcher3 or Ghost Recon and I'm looking for RDR2 to hit big sales.

At 4k the GPU would be even more so the bottleneck.

 

[Gmoney06ss]

I'm currently running a 7700 non k also and would say grab a gpu. If its within your budget of course. 2080super or 2080ti for 4k.

On the cpu, I'd also recommend amd, as most have said. Bang for the buck is awesome! The 9700k, while certainly better than your current cpu, isnt much of an upgrade imo. If you wanna stay intel I'd recommend the 9900k.

 

[rigg42]

I don't think everyone needs to be so quick to dismiss the OP's concerns about AM4. I'm am one of if not the biggest AM4 enthusiasts that lurk's these forums. I've built 20+ AM4 systems in the last year. I've owned over 30 AM4 motherboards, over a dozen 1st gen ryzens, eight 2nd gen ryzens, and six 3rd gen Ryzen CPU's at one time or another. I've spent countless hours testing, tuning, and building systems on this platform. Countless more hours reading and researching everything there is to know about them. I've assisted many with troubleshooting issues on these systems.

I've never had any memory issues with first and second gen Ryzen systems with a properly working memory kit. I've never had one of these systems not post and run its rated XMP. The overwhelming majority were built with 3200 cl16 kits with no thought to memory QVL's at all. I had no trouble running a trident z b-die kit at 3600 cl16 xmp on an Asus B450 ITX board with 2 different 1600's and 2 different 2600x's. All I needed to do was tweak the SOC voltage on each CPU. I run memtest86 on every system I build before selling it on so this was all verified to be stable. That doesn't mean this is definitive that you won't have memory issues but it does seem to indicate that the BIOS' have matured in this regard with older CPU's.

I have experienced multiple memory compatibility issues with third gen Ryzen on early 3000 compatible bios'. This was on multiple 300 and 400 series motherboards. These issues didn't have any rhyme or reason to them either. A certain CPU and memory combo wouldn't even post on one motherboard but worked perfectly fine in another. I was able to easily work around these early issues and have had zero memory related issues recently with the 3000 CPU's and older gen motherboards. Newer AGESA verions for the older boards seem to have resolved most of these types of issues. As far as I can tell issues like this are few and far between on x570. The x570 in my personal build has been flawless since day one. Any AM4 motherboard with a current bios should easily run a 3000 CPU with a decent memory kit 3600 mhz with tightened timings.

The boost issue was also legitimate and AMD acknowledged and fixed it. While I never experienced it personally, I believe the issues with certain motherboards locking to 1.4v at all times were also legitimate. There also seem to be some weird temperature or temp sensor issues that have popped up here and there that I also believe to be legit. I obviously can't test every motherboard, bios version, CPU, and memory kit but I still feel confident in saying that the issues I've experienced have all pretty much been resolved with the recent AGESA versions. Not all older motherboards have a BIOS with the newest AGESA versions available though.

I don't really see compatibility issues as all that big of a deal personally. Amazon, Micro Center, and other online retailers usually make it ridiculously easy to return things if you do run into any compatibility issues. Annoying if it happens perhaps but not the end of the world. Considering AMD have managed to keep CPU compatibility across 3 different generations I'd say they've done a decent job sorting this compatibility stuff out.

So while there have been some legit teething issues there has also been a lot of "sky is falling" nonsense by incompetent system builders that think CPU's operating exactly how they are supposed to are not.

I also don't fault the OP for having some concern about the pins. I build more systems in a month than most people build in their life and I've had AM4 CPU's yank out of sockets when removing coolers. I'm usually extremely careful, and know the proper procedures for doing it, but sometimes thermal paste sticks to a CPU like glue. I bent pins on a 3600x because of this and couldn't get them bent back despite my best efforts. I was fortunate to be able to return it.

Pin's can get damaged if you put them on the socket or the CPU. The CPU isn't always the more expensive component although it probably nearly always is. That doesn't mean bending pins on a $300 motherboard sucks any less

The IPC argument is a bit off base IMO. To be fair this is an extremely complicated thing to quantify since it's completely application dependent.

The better "gaming CPU" argument is also kind of tired. The advantage is mostly non existent in any practical sense. You have to purposely put the burden on the CPU by running a GPU at a silly resolution for its price tier or nerf quality settings with a lower tier GPU to see more than a 5-10% advantage over a large suite of current games. This looks nice on graph but is kind of irrelevant to most consumers. Intel's gaming advantage looks neat when you run low res benchmarks on a $1200 GPU 99% of consumers would never even consider buying. The money you save on platform cost and cooling by going AMD can be rolled into a better GPU so the argument doesn't really hold much water IMO.

As for Intel.....

I've also built and tuned multiple 8th and 9th gen Intel systems. They come with their own set of concerns and merits. They are not currently price competitive IMO. That being said if waiting for the next release then it might be a significantly different playing field. It's hard to say anything concrete at this time. The rumors about the SKU's seem legit. 10c20t i9, 8c16t i7, 6c12t i5, and 4c8t i3 could be interesting. It's going to come down to how they price them and if AMD responds with price cuts.

What we do know is that they are 14nm and the platform/cooling cost is still probably going to suck. To beat AMD core for core thread for thread they need to run up clock speeds. To do this the power efficiency goes out the window and requires an expensive motherboard and cooling solution. The only way to avoid this is to enforce the TDP limits on the CPU which results in it performing significantly worse than a comparable AMD CPU. By nature of using a 6 generation old process node, the abysmal power efficiency rears it's ugly head when you need premium cooling and power delivery to get competitive performance.

Where they might get away with it is the i5 SKU's. The 8700/8700k at stock speeds with TDP limits unenforced will sustain 4.3 ghz all core. Those CPU's are cool-able with a 120mm tower cooler with a slight undervolt. With a soldered TIM and slightly more mature silicon this could potentially be fine with a mediocre motherboard and the aforementioned modest cooling solution. If the 10600(k) can achieve this kind of performance at a competitive price it might be a compelling option for some gamers. Even than an 8700(k) run in this fashion isn't really better than 3rd gen Ryzen. It's pretty dang close to a 3600x so I wouldn't hold my breath.

The new SKU's might look great on benchmark charts but will probably continue to have mediocre value when platform cost is considered. Not to mention Ryzen 4000 should be out 3rd quarter. Based on what they've done previously I'd expect price cuts on 3rd gen Ryzen immediately when these CPU's are released.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Personally i find no issues with going Intel 9700k.

My friend has a 9900k and 2080 super. Makes perfect sense for him as he games at 1080p high refresh and he already had a z370 board and an older CPU to update bios.

But my money has gone to AMD and will continue to go there as long as i feel they continue to deliver the better value for my money.

I personally have not had any issues with BIOS or RAM incompatabilities running at straight 3200mhx xmp.

There has been issues with bios issues and ram issues right after a launch, but these get ironed out after a short time.

I feel the money saved is worth the minuscule risk for problems, and quite frankly it has paid off for me. Its not like Intel is immune to problems.

 

[mdd1963]

given your choiceslisted, I'd look at the 3700, and, just quit looking right there....(the 9600K/9400 should, in my opinion, both be disqualified from contention on the basis of being 'thread challenged' even on their best days, and, each is often plagued with minimum FPS issues due to only 6 threads)

As you've listed 4k as an objective, most any CPU you get will have similar frame rates, easily capped by today's GPUs, but, who wants minimum FPS issues once you've spent the money on a GPU needed for adequate 4k gaming....a 5700XT or 2080 Super or Ti

 

[sizzling]

I agree with above, wouldn’t even consider the i5’s. I have just put together a 3700X and B450 Tomahawk Max system and it worked with no issues at all. With the better price performance of Ryzen I wonder if what you are seeing is the result of newer/less experienced builders who have opted for the better value Ryzen system who are making mistakes.

 

[Zadkhiel]

given your choiceslisted, I'd look at the 3700, and, just quit looking right there....(the 9600K/9400 should, in my opinion, both be disqualified from contention on the basis of being 'thread challenged' even on their best days, and, each is often plagued with minimum FPS issues due to only 6 threads)

As you've listed 4k as an objective, most any CPU you get will have similar frame rates, easily capped by today's GPUs, but, who wants minimum FPS issues once you've spent the money on a GPU needed for adequate 4k gaming....a 5700XT or 2080 Super or Ti

What about the huge amount of problems with AMD ??? 😱

Any AMD owners here? Maybe they could share some opinions on how bad are the issues with the motherboards and how about software and gaming compatibility?

Seen a lot of complains that lots of games with crash with AMD and/or blue screen of death or freezing in certain games and so on . . .

Windows compatibility issues as well . . .



Is it that bad? Should i even consider AMD? Or am I better with Intel?



Thank you

 

[sizzling]

In my opinion AMD is no more or less likely to have issues than Intel. My last build was Intel and as mentioned above my new build AMD. Not sure if it’s luck or because I have some experience but neither had issues.

 

[Zadkhiel]

I agree with above, wouldn’t even consider the i5’s. I have just put together a 3700X and B450 Tomahawk Max system and it worked with no issues at all. With the better price performance of Ryzen I wonder if what you are seeing is the result of newer/less experienced builders who have opted for the better value Ryzen system who are making mistakes.

Wow ! Really nice !

I too was leaning towards Tomahawk MAX, cause it has OC 4133 Ram and BIOS updates so that R 7 3700x is out of the box compatible.

Can you share with me how it works?

I have heard that MSI boards have lots of problems.

Do you game? How is Win 10 compatibilty? What about other issues like freezing, crashing, blue screen . . .etc ?

What about the volatage? I have heard that MSI pushes high voltages like 1.4 at idle which is very high....? Does the Processor reach its full Boost? heard that was another issue . . .

 

[sizzling]

I have had no issues, no freezing, no BSOD however one of the first things I did was update the BIOS.

Voltage I haven’t looked at too closely, I think it peaked at 1.41X while testing. I’ve stressed tested with Cinebench and 3DMark, also done a little gaming and had no issues. Using stock cooler it hasn’t gone over 75c and boosting seems fine.

FYI this is with 2x16Gb 3200mhz cl16. Im not overclocking yet.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I am not using Ryzen 3rd gen, but have used both 1st and 2nd generation CPUs. I have had no issues whatsoever except for a partially dead motherboard on arrival.

 

[GarrettL]

What about the huge amount of problems with AMD ??? 😱

Any AMD owners here? Maybe they could share some opinions on how bad are the issues with the motherboards and how about software and gaming compatibility?

Seen a lot of complains that lots of games with crash with AMD and/or blue screen of death or freezing in certain games and so on . . .

Windows compatibility issues as well . . .



Is it that bad? Should i even consider AMD? Or am I better with Intel?



Thank you

I've had no issues with my x570 build in Windows or gaming.

 

[Zadkhiel]

Thank you guys for all your replies and thoughts !!!

So in your opinion, should I go with the Ryzen 7 3700x OR the i7 9700k ?

What ablout the motherboard ?

Was thinking of going for the Tomahawk B450 Max or something good from X470 that has a STRONG BIOS, STRONG VRM'S AND ITS RELIABLE AND STABLE !

Also FLASH BIOS would be preferd, to be able to flash it for using Ryzen 3000 series, though out of the box updated BIOS would be BEST( no more headaches )

I would go donw the road of X570, was planing on buying the Asus Tuf Gaming Plus X570(very strong mb and strong VRM's,) but I am really DISLIKING THE FAN ON THE BOARD, that could jam, break down, or simply stop working in time. Also, I hear that temperatures are really high on X570 boards . . .

Or is it best to wait for Ryzen 4000 ? Though sources say it will come out in July to August and stocks will probably available in September and so on . . .

Playing the waiting game its not something I like doing 😬

 

[sizzling]

I was in a similar situation, looking at 3600/3700X/i7 9700k for a 1440p 144Hz setup. I decided to go 3700X paired with a 2080 Super (was originally 2070 Super but got a great deal). So not only is the 3700X my vote it is where I put my own money.

 

[GarrettL]

I've had no issues with my x570 build in Windows or gaming.

I am an AMD owner running a3800x on an Asus TUF x570.
Again, no issues.

 

[Zadkhiel]

I am an AMD owner running a3800x on an Asus TUF x570.
Again, no issues.

I would go for this board but, I dont know about that fan...in time, all my small fans( in particular) jammed, or stoped working . . .

 

[Karadjgne]

3700x and either the Asus Tuf Gaming /wifi x570 or Gigabyte Aorus Elite x570 with 16-32Gb 3600/3733. Untouchable for the price, both mobo's run @ $180 but have the same VRM's as the $300+.

 

[Zadkhiel]

3700x and either the Asus Tuf Gaming /wifi x570 or Gigabyte Aorus Elite x570 with 16-32Gb 3600/3733. Untouchable for the price, both mobo's run @ $180 but have the same VRM's as the $300+.

Yes, very good mobos but I'm not sure about the cooling fan on them . . .

 

[Zadkhiel]

What about the x470 boards?

Which are the best? Is MSI Tomahawk Max B450 better or at least in league with X470 boards?

 

[GarrettL]

I would go for this board but, I dont know about that fan...in time, all my small fans( in particular) jammed, or stoped working . . .

Most pc fans outlast the pc itself. You're worrying over nothing.

As an owner of the x570 it has operated flawlessly considering how early the product line is in maturity. It's an extremely fast PC.

If you're trying to find reasons to not go AMD...then ok. Ok.

 

[rigg42]

What about the x470 boards?

Which are the best? Is MSI Tomahawk Max B450 better or at least in league with X470 boards?

Best is relative. Motherboard choice is a balance of hardware features, power delivery, and bios options. All of these things really have little to do with chipset and more to do the individual board. There are a ton of crap x370/x470 boards. I've owned about 30 AM4 boards and have done a ton of research on this subject. There are in reality only a handful of really high quality 300 and 400 series boards at least in terms of power delivery. The tomahawk is often recommended because it has good power delivery for the money. In terms of features it's not that great. I personally think it's overrated. Power delivery info for AM4 is available here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

Power delivery really isn't as big of a concern for the 6 and 8 core 3000 CPU's. They just don't draw enough current or have enough OC headroom for power delivery to be a big concern. As long as it has reasonable power delivery and the features you want (readily available on the product pages) then you are good to go. In general the better the board the more advanced bios options you will have. If you aren't going to tweak your settings to squeeze every ounce of performance out of your system then this probably doesn't really matter either.

Since you are running 4k the CPU won't be much of a factor anyway. You'll be completely GPU bound at 4K with any currently available GPU. I'd recommend the 2700x since they are blowing them out for dirt cheap . I bought 2 of them for $130 a piece in November.

 

[TJ Hooker]

For 4K gaming your GPU should be your #1 priority. If your budget currently prevents you from getting something like a 2080, it doesn't make sense to spend a bunch of money on new CPU/mobo/RAM beforehand and thus delay a GPU upgrade even further.

At 4K there will likely be little benefit from a new CPU. There will be no benefit from going from 16 to 32GB of RAM. Save your money, get a better GPU, and then look at upgrading your CPU in the future as budget/performance dictates.

This is all assuming that we're talking about modern AAA games, high-ish settings, aiming for ~60 fps at 4K.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Thank you guys for all your replies and thoughts !!!

So in your opinion, should I go with the Ryzen 7 3700x OR the i7 9700k ?

What ablout the motherboard ?

Was thinking of going for the Tomahawk B450 Max or something good from X470 that has a STRONG BIOS, STRONG VRM'S AND ITS RELIABLE AND STABLE !

Also FLASH BIOS would be preferd, to be able to flash it for using Ryzen 3000 series, though out of the box updated BIOS would be BEST( no more headaches )

I would go donw the road of X570, was planing on buying the Asus Tuf Gaming Plus X570(very strong mb and strong VRM's,) but I am really DISLIKING THE FAN ON THE BOARD, that could jam, break down, or simply stop working in time. Also, I hear that temperatures are really high on X570 boards . . .

Or is it best to wait for Ryzen 4000 ? Though sources say it will come out in July to August and stocks will probably available in September and so on . . .

Playing the waiting game its not something I like doing 😬

If you do almost any content creation a 3700X is the clear preference to 9700K. In gaming performance, especially 4K where the GPU is king, they'll be essentially the same but total installed cost of the 3700X should be less; always include cost of motherboard in purchase decisions.

You could also have a system with an upgrade path even if you choose a 'budget' motherboard. My B450m Mortar, arguably budget, has been demonstrated quite comfortably operating a 3950X processor, for instance. You'll probably need a truely premium board if you plan on an eventual upgrade to 9900KS processors from a 9700K. (I apologize if 9700 and 9900 don't fit the same sockets.)

I agree with Rigg42 that the Tomahawk is light on features, but it has all that most people need. Specifically, it lacks the PREMIUM audio and PREMIUM / 10Gb LAN and WiFi that some prefer. It also lacks a lot of SATA ports, but that's resultant of a compromise that comes with all B450 chipset motherboards. The Tomahawk, like my Mortar, is a budget board and budget boards are rarely found with capable VRM's. That's what make them pretty unique and popular.

 

[Zadkhiel]

Thank you for all your answers, I really appreciate them !

But I see that a lot of people did not read my initial thread 😬

As as was saying there, unfortunately, I'm stuck for now at 1080 because of my current Display ( a 55" OLED TV at 1080p) ! So until I have the money to buy a new OLED TV ( Im gonna go 65" 4K OLED, which is around 2500 USD, a lot of money and a RTX 2080 Super, or Ti), I'm gonna play at 1080p ! That is the reason that I was thinking to upgrade my CPU+MB+RAM now, cause my current GTX 1060 6GB is running everything fine at ULTRA (turning down the AA a bit and maybe some shadows) !

So my logic is this: I go for the upgrade of the CPU+MB+RAM now and by the time I have the money to buy a new 65" 4K OLED Display ( in fall next year, hopefully earlier), GPU's will drop their prices and probably, I can get a really good deal on a RTX 2080 SUPER.

If I stretch my budget now, which will probably mean buying a 2070 SUPER, I will not benefit from it, because of my current TV, so no point in investing in something that I can't use.