Intel Xeon LGA2011 vs LGA1150, E3 vs E5 vs E7 for workstation.

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3Dgeo

3Dgeo

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Nov 4, 2012
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Hi,

I'm was looking at intel XEON processors and I found some strange to me things, so I decided to consult with smart people of this forum, so lets get started:

I'm not an expert in CPUs and sockets, but I thought LGA2011 socket is most recent socket, but I noticed that most resent XOENs are LGA1150. Why Intel is doing this? LGA2011 is worse than 1150? And what socket will be better for workstation IN THE FUTURE. I know that now for workstation recent Xeon CPUs are Xeon E5-26xx (Sandy Bridge-EP, LGA2011), but they only allow 2 cpu in 1 motherboard max. Should I expect Intel will be launching LGA2011 Ivy Bridge-E Xeon for workstation with more than 2 CPU in 1 motherboard? Is LGA2011 will be future socket for Xeon processors?

Another thing thats bothering me:
E3 vs E5 vs E7 xeons, I'm guessing that E7 is 'best' xeons? But newest Xeons that Intel launched is E5.....

Last thing, what is the different between workstation and server? I'm talking about CPU and MOBO performance/specs. Should I be ok using server mobo as workstation?

I'm sorry if I ask nonsense, I'm not computer expert :)

Edit: is it ok to use different GHZ and core count xeons in same mobo?
 
Solution
npsgaming
Again, in general from my understanding (and I am just waiting to be corrected 😛 ) L3 cache plays a HUGE role in rendering speeds and ability. That is why you see many high end workstations using Xeon cpus. A typical Xeon CPU will have a much larger L3 cache and allows for ECC memory (which also helps rendering times). QPI rates are not that big of a deal (in my mind at least) except they allow greater bandwidth for memory and other components. There may be more the QPI rates than I am hinting at here but I think at this point a 5.4/6/8/8+ QPI rate isn't going to lead to an earthshattering performance increase.

Let me tackle your bottom question next. You DO NOT WANT a quad socket setup. I am just going to come out there and say it...
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Hello there!

I thought a nice place to start is answering the question of which came first: LGA2011 did release first. LGA2011 is on the X79 Chipset. The LGA1150 is on H81, B85, Q85, Q87, H87, and Z87 Chipsets. Simply put LGA1150 is mainstream and desktop focus and LGA2011 is considered "high end".

Which will be better down the road for workstations? I cannot say for certain but I would put my weight into LGA2011. I am not entirely sure LGA1150 will be more than a pitstop on the socket revolution Intel is running. If you want to readup on the future of sockets and future cpus that are EXPECTED to be released take a look at: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130613114053_Detailed_Intel_Roadmap_for_2013_2014_Timeframe_Gets_Published.html .

Now regarding E3, E5, E7 cpu series from what I know working with servers its mainly about PCIe lanes, memory bandwidth, and how many QPI pairs the chip allows.

Here is what I know (I am not great with this stuff so if someone else has better info correct me please):
E3 Processors are single socket solutions. They allow for dual channel memory (same as a desktop really), 25.6 GB/s of memory bandwidth, supports a hundred gigabytes of ECC memory, etc. http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59137 is a list of their E3 cpus. Note that the socket is most commonly 1155.


E5 Processors are dual or quad socket solutions. They allow for 1-4 CPUs depending on your board and cpu support. They have more PCIe lanes (40 per CPU), more memory bandwidth (50+GB/s), Higher QPI rate 8GT/s, 2Tb of ECC memory support, etc. http://ark.intel.com/products/64606/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-4650L-20M-Cache-2_60-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI that is a link to their highest end cpu in the E5 family. Note that it's socket is 2011.

E7 Processors are dual or quad or "octa" socket solutions like the E5. They allow for 1-8 CPUs depending on your board and which cpu you select. These processors are genuine computational monsters. I can't even find a PCIe lane count, up to 108GB/s of memory bandwidth, a lower QPI rate but still fast 6.4GT/, 4+ Tb of ECC memory support, and a ridiculous 30Mb L3 cache for a top shelf E7 Xeon. It runs socket LGA1567 which is a server specific socket and completely overkill for any kind of workstation.


But if drooling over specs and wishing you had $100,000.00 to drop on a single server for your datacenter is just something you'd like: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-processor-e7-family.html has enough eyecandy and fact packed brochures you can go to dreamland 😛


Honestly this may all be wrong but ideally I think a dual socket LGA2011 system with 2x E5 class processors would be a freaking scary workstation. Pair it with 48Gb of ECC buffered DDR3 1800Mhz memory, dedicated LSI raid card running 5 solid state drives in Raid 5, a few 7200RPM high capacity hard drives and a GTX 780 or Titan or Quadro (depending on what the workstation is used for), would be absolutely killer.
 
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First I want to thank you for answering.

Problem is I already have 2 CPU workstation (well its a bit old now) with Quadro 6000, 2 raid0 ssd and other stuff you mentioned and its not enough for me :) Mainly I need it for rendering and simulations. To be clear: I don't like using render farms so don't suggest them.

Simulation and rendering wise do cache memory matters, QPI rate matters?


Its a bit off topic but my other concern is mobo working properly with few CPUs, cos now I have huge problem with fans speeds after bios update (will go for watercooling and fan controler to solve it) and don't know why but when I put it to sleep mode it wake up after its starts "sleeping" emeadetly.
Should I expect there kind of problems with E5 or E7 mobos?

Generally 4 CPU mobo is good idea as workstation? (3D, video, image editing). Not from price point, but from performance, compatibility and so on...
 
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Again, in general from my understanding (and I am just waiting to be corrected 😛 ) L3 cache plays a HUGE role in rendering speeds and ability. That is why you see many high end workstations using Xeon cpus. A typical Xeon CPU will have a much larger L3 cache and allows for ECC memory (which also helps rendering times). QPI rates are not that big of a deal (in my mind at least) except they allow greater bandwidth for memory and other components. There may be more the QPI rates than I am hinting at here but I think at this point a 5.4/6/8/8+ QPI rate isn't going to lead to an earthshattering performance increase.

Let me tackle your bottom question next. You DO NOT WANT a quad socket setup. I am just going to come out there and say it. Quad socket systems are just not compatible. The boards themselves are of no earthly server form factor much less an ATX factor. http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon7000/7500/X8QB6.cfm?SAS=N that is a quad socket board. LGA1567 is a MP platform socket and chipsets. They are simply too specialized to be practical.

I just want to be honest, there is no reason to consider a quad socket intel board for workstation usage. If money is not a concern and you are looking for maximum performance, compatibility, practicality, and ease of operation a dual LGA2011 board with a pair of E5-2687W cpus would be my recommendation.

In fact,

Let me throw a little shopping extravaganza together here 😛 . I love to shop for this stuff. :

2x Intel Xeon E5-2687W processors 3.1Ghz, 20MB L3 Cache, 8-Cores, 16 Threads with Intel HyperThread, Quad Channel Memory DDR3 ECC, 8.0GT/s QPI, and 150w of flaming hot TDP. $2,000.00 per cpu (I round 😀 )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117272
http://ark.intel.com/products/64582/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2687W-20M-Cache-3_10-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI

1x Supermicro MBD-X9DAi-O Extended ATX motherboard with dual 8.0GT/s QPI links, 16x 240pin DDR3 ECC memory slots which will hold 512Gb of Registered ECC memory, and has plenty of PCIe slots for adding a dedicated raid card (we'll get to that in a minute), and your quadro graphics card(s). $500.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182260

2x 16GB kit of Kingston ECC registered DDR3 1600 memory $200.00 per kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239246

Your graphics card solution is your own you could do a tesla and a standalone graphics card for raw computation or a quadro 6000. Either way we can just budget $4,000.00 for it.

1x psu (maybe 2 depending on load calculations). A 1500w psu would be safe and allow you to hold all the hard drives you'll need/want. I chose the EVGA Supernova because I love EVGA products. You could pick any 1500w+ psu that fits. $350.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438009

1x HUGE CASE. I mean we're talking massive. Like bigger than a smart car. The case has to fit all these guts and keep them cool. I mentioned above in the CPUs that 150w of flaming hot TDP. I'm not kidding. Each of those cpus will put off enough heat to warm your house. You're going to need some serious heatsinks or watercooling to keep them safe. There is a reason Intel doesn't even ship them with a cooler. If you're serious about water cooling we can create a new thread JUST FOR THAT. I just decided this case would be good for you. Allows for multi psu setups, tons of radiator space, giant motherboards, and tons of hard drives. $350.00 (But hey its on sale 😛 )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112390

5x Western Digital RE WD2000FYYZ 2TB hard drives for your project storage and long term data. Oh don't worry we're gonna raid these to ensure redundancy and speed. $210.00 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236352

3x Corsair Force GT 3 240Gb Solid State Drives. 1 for OS, 1 for Scratch Work, and 1 for active workspace and render caching. $230.00 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233208

And that's really all the "guts" required. Oh then add cooling this beast. You're looking at maybe $2,000.00 in radiators, tubing, waterblocks, reservoirs, pumps, coolant, monitoring gear, fans, etc.

All in all you're looking at: $13,000.00 oh and that doesn't even include shipping.....

I guess what I'm trying to say is for a maxed out workstation/render beast this is a pretty good. Again my opinions are in here and my experience with clients who do animation and rendering for a living. If you're making the money to spend on a rig like this, why are you shying away from server farms?


Does this help? A configuration with dual 2687 processors is just killer by itself. You would be eating render times up... literally...

 
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Solution


Can you explain this in more detail? I didn't understand why exactly they are not practical? Due to its huge size? Size no problem: custom case.

As I said, I already have 2 CPU worsation. Building new systems is rear but its kinda my hobby so I would like to make it extreme. I did quite a bit reading about CPU and 4 CPU mobo, I already know about supermicro 4 CPU mobos, and even considered buying one but I decide to consult if I will be ok with server mobo. Please don't call me crazy cos I know you will when u read this: I want to built workstation with 4 x E7-8870, full watercooling, custom carbon case. To be clear: no money falls from sky for me, I have to save for it, but I think I can do this in reasonable time :) So no discussion about price please, only compatibility and performance :)

You mentioned one important thing: heat, and I know this is huge problem even with 2 CPUs...

So I still don't know why server mobo will be bad workstation mobo (forget size, only performance and compatibility matters 😉 )
 
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You don't want to render using CPU's.
I was the IT manager for a few large Architecture firms and we got almost completely away from it. Utilize the GPU in your video card(s) and iRay. Each video card can do the work of dozens of cores if not over 100 cores per video card (depending on the video card obviously)




 
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i want to work on 3d professional and i want to make a workstation
, i have 2 choices,
1 to make it myself
2 to buy something like Hp workstations
buck limit is 4000.

what is your choice?

 
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