News Intel's Core i9-14900K Delidded: 12C Temperature Reduction

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Crazyy8

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All that money for 14900k, delidding, and thermal paste with an AIO on top for a 10C temp reduction and some saved power. With that amount of money I could get a good 7950X3D with a good cooler and still perform better. 14th gen not worth it.
 
All that money for 14900k, delidding, and thermal paste with an AIO on top for a 10C temp reduction and some saved power. With that amount of money I could get a good 7950X3D with a good cooler and still perform better. 14th gen not worth it.
In fairness to Intel, it's still a better look than AMD's craptastic IHS keeping the cores all warmed up.

The same person, der8auer, showed the ludicrous difference for Zen4-based Ryzen 7000 CPUs when delidded.

That being said, I do like both AMD and Intel will have their hands forced when they try to push even more power on the new chips, since thermals are just going to push back (and bite) really hard.

Regards.
 
All that money for 14900k, delidding, and thermal paste with an AIO on top for a 10C temp reduction and some saved power. With that amount of money I could get a good 7950X3D with a good cooler and still perform better. 14th gen not worth it.
It was an overclocked system with an all core of the p-cores to 5.6Ghz...and the temps before delidding where still 93 degrees average...
You don't need to delid, but he is an overclocker that sells overclocking equipment so he makes overclocking content.
That being said, I do like both AMD and Intel will have their hands forced when they try to push even more power on the new chips, since thermals are just going to push back (and bite) really hard.
Upcoming gen for both of them is going to be a new node wich means less power for the same performance, or more likely more performance but at least for the same power.
Also 5.6Ghz all p-cores and still 93 degrees, so intel still has some temp overhead to play with.
 
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zachacox

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Intel engineers are missing out on a huge opportunity, and it seems they don't even know it.

What would happen if some desktop parts arrived already delidded, or more accurately UNlidded? Subbing a piece of plastic to ensure contact for the obviously higher cost of the lid and whatever garbage Intel uses to secure the lid and act as TIM wouldn't just save end users money, it would save Intel, too!

I'd certainly limit this idea to K and KF parts, as buyers of those SKUs are much more likely then non K buyers to want to delid, have the technical knowledge required, and/or know what advantage delidding even promises. Not only that, but Intel already recognizes that set of end users by not including an OEM HSF with K and KF SKUs.

In the age of buzzwords like 'sustainability' and 'carbon footprint', such a move has the potential for a bigger effect than first realized.

1. Labor and energy is spent manufacturing lids, transporting lids, receiving lids and committing lids to inventory. Same with glues and TIM materials.

2. Labor and energy is spent picking inventoried lids and other materials and then mounting them onto dies to create finished products.

3. Finished products are then shipped to distributors and resellers for shipment to end users, each leg of the process consuming more energy because of the weight of metal lids, as opposed to plastic contact plates.

4. A delidded or UNlidded CPU draws 10 watts less power, so says the foregoing, which means each of those million CPUs has the potential to save up to 88 kWh of power per year by itself.

5. Each of those UNlidded CPUs then dumps 10 watts less heat into the rooms they are in, which equates to 10 watts less air conditioning required to cool the rooms.

6. Those 10 watts plus the several additional watts to cool said rooms, plus the cost of transmitting those watts to the place of consumption may cost the end user a very small amount of money on a monthly or even yearly basis, but at ~120 kWh/year, over a 10-year lifespan that money is not trivial, especially when expressed in terms of TCO on a P&L statement.

7. Those 120 kWh must come from somewhere, and even if they come from renewable sources, they serve to offset other uses for that power, which in 2023 still usually means more generated by the use of fossil fuels. That in itself engenders a whole other discussion centering on extraction, transport, supply, demand and the economics thereof, plus the actual burning of and subsequent dumping of CO2 from them into our air.

Phew.

If Intel sells a million K and KF CPUs, and each lid weighs 25 grams more than a plastic piece, that equates to 25 million grams, or better said, 25 metric tons of weight that doesn't require energy to transport every step of the way. Those million CPUs could collectively save 1200 million kWh over a decade, more/less. That's just gotta be enough to send one DeLorean back to 2015.
 

leclod

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This article is wrong.
The cpu wasn't just delidded, it was delidded and relidded.
The only difference was the kind of liquid metal. He replaced Indium with Gallium.
The Contact Frame was changed finally and only did account for 1.5° improvement.
(I have no idea why he does this or where the improvement came from, probably the heatspreader ends up closer the die)
 
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Intel engineers are missing out on a huge opportunity, and it seems they don't even know it.

What would happen if some desktop parts arrived already delidded, or more accurately UNlidded? Subbing a piece of plastic to ensure contact for the obviously higher cost of the lid and whatever garbage Intel uses to secure the lid and act as TIM wouldn't just save end users money, it would save Intel, too!

I'd certainly limit this idea to K and KF parts, as buyers of those SKUs are much more likely then non K buyers to want to delid, have the technical knowledge required, and/or know what advantage delidding even promises. Not only that, but Intel already recognizes that set of end users by not including an OEM HSF with K and KF SKUs.

In the age of buzzwords like 'sustainability' and 'carbon footprint', such a move has the potential for a bigger effect than first realized.

1. Labor and energy is spent manufacturing lids, transporting lids, receiving lids and committing lids to inventory. Same with glues and TIM materials.

2. Labor and energy is spent picking inventoried lids and other materials and then mounting them onto dies to create finished products.

3. Finished products are then shipped to distributors and resellers for shipment to end users, each leg of the process consuming more energy because of the weight of metal lids, as opposed to plastic contact plates.

4. A delidded or UNlidded CPU draws 10 watts less power, so says the foregoing, which means each of those million CPUs has the potential to save up to 88 kWh of power per year by itself.

5. Each of those UNlidded CPUs then dumps 10 watts less heat into the rooms they are in, which equates to 10 watts less air conditioning required to cool the rooms.

6. Those 10 watts plus the several additional watts to cool said rooms, plus the cost of transmitting those watts to the place of consumption may cost the end user a very small amount of money on a monthly or even yearly basis, but at ~120 kWh/year, over a 10-year lifespan that money is not trivial, especially when expressed in terms of TCO on a P&L statement.

7. Those 120 kWh must come from somewhere, and even if they come from renewable sources, they serve to offset other uses for that power, which in 2023 still usually means more generated by the use of fossil fuels. That in itself engenders a whole other discussion centering on extraction, transport, supply, demand and the economics thereof, plus the actual burning of and subsequent dumping of CO2 from them into our air.

Phew.

If Intel sells a million K and KF CPUs, and each lid weighs 25 grams more than a plastic piece, that equates to 25 million grams, or better said, 25 metric tons of weight that doesn't require energy to transport every step of the way. Those million CPUs could collectively save 1200 million kWh over a decade, more/less. That's just gotta be enough to send one DeLorean back to 2015.
Been wondering why they have n't tried this.
Years ago most CPUs came without a heatspreader, maybe it's
time to go back?
 
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This article is wrong.
The cpu wasn't just delidded, it was delidded and relidded.
The only difference was the kind of liquid metal. He replaced Indium with Gallium.
The Contact Frame was changed finally and only did account for 1.5° improvement.
(I have no idea why he does this or where the improvement came from, probably the heatspreader ends up closer the die)
As was kinda said in a post above. His business is primarily selling the contact frames/delidders/various pastes. He also needs some kinda of content for his weekly video. I suspect he had nothing better to talk about since everyone has fully covered that the 14th gen is not all the special.
There really is nothing new to see here. If you want to go to the trouble of delidding and risk using liquid metal it will likely run cooler. Even he admits that the contact frames only help on some combinations of coolers and motherboard.

Not sure why toms linked this video it wasn't really any unexpect information.....then again this site and their freelance authors need to produce content also and the 14th gen has not been much to talk about.
 
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They where still covered up by material that protected them though, you make it sound as if they came as direct die.
Direct die is probably a bit much for all but the most advanced people out there but it's been proven time and again that delidding cuts temperatures and power consumption.
All I'm suggesting is that possibly, they may need to go back to leaving that IHS off altogether, after all
GPUs' have always been made this way and I'm not seeing any issue with people repasting or swapping coolers.
 
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edzieba

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They where still covered up by material that protected them though, you make it sound as if they came as direct die.
They did come as bare dies, with at most some little rubber nubs around the corners that had effectively no protective value outside of shipping. However, the dies were physically thicker, and cooler mounting pressure was much lower, as well as mounting torque lower due to much lighter HSFs. But chips were still killed: if you remember the early socketed Athlons with that godawful Socket A jam-the-clips-down-with-a-flathead retention design (anyone complaining about the intel pushpin HSFs has never had to use those atrocities) the retention tabs were not centred over the physical die. This means that if you mounted the HSF 'backwards' then the HSF would apply off-centre pressure and could very easily chip the die and kill the chip.
 

edzieba

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If Swarovski can ship me two crystal flutes that survive the 'FedEx driver lob', I'm sure Intel can think of a way to protect their CPUs both during and after the 'in-flight' portions of their delivery.
See discussion upthread: damage occurs from HSF install, not shipping.
I would not recommend clamping a HSF to your glass ornaments.
 
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If Swarovski can ship me two crystal flutes that survive the 'FedEx driver lob', I'm sure Intel can think of a way to protect their CPUs both during and after the 'in-flight' portions of their delivery.
I think Edzieba was thinking of mishandling by ham fisted users/installers rather than transit damage caused by would be Fed-X slam dunkers.
 
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They did come as bare dies, with at most some little rubber nubs around the corners that had effectively no protective value outside of shipping. However, the dies were physically thicker, and cooler mounting pressure was much lower, as well as mounting torque lower due to much lighter HSFs. But chips were still killed: if you remember the early socketed Athlons with that godawful Socket A jam-the-clips-down-with-a-flathead retention design (anyone complaining about the intel pushpin HSFs has never had to use those atrocities) the retention tabs were not centred over the physical die. This means that if you mounted the HSF 'backwards' then the HSF would apply off-centre pressure and could very easily chip the die and kill the chip.
Ha, I didn't even remember those, that's terrible and just asking for damaged chips.
 

abufrejoval

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It hasn't clicked yet that temperatures like this are ok, but clueless personal feelings are getting in the way of that.

I'm going to end up busting my head open from all the facepalms caused by 'temps too high' threads.
If I'm reading him right he is saying that with 95°C there is still margin left, which is quite the opposite of saying it's too hot... So perhaps a little less face palming might improve the reading quality?
 

Phaaze88

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If I'm reading him right he is saying that with 95°C there is still margin left, which is quite the opposite of saying it's too hot... So perhaps a little less face palming might improve the reading quality?
Uhh, maybe don't question my reading comprehension, when you appear to know less about the chip than I do.
This, and original Raptor Lake can go up to 115C. If Intel's engineers say 95C is fine, then 95C is fine; I'm not going to take some stranger's word that it isn't true, at least not without proof.
 
If I'm reading him right he is saying that with 95°C there is still margin left, which is quite the opposite of saying it's too hot... So perhaps a little less face palming might improve the reading quality?
Uhh, maybe don't question my reading comprehension, when you appear to know less about the chip than I do.
This, and original Raptor Lake can go up to 115C. If Intel's engineers say 95C is fine, then 95C is fine; I'm not going to take some stranger's word that it isn't true, at least not without proof.
OVERCLOCKED and the average was 93 degrees, not overclocked so the way intel ships them they would run even cooler. Even if the limit where to be 100 there would still be quite a bit of temp left to push things.

Also these CPUs can go up to 130 degrees, 115 is the max that can be set by a normal user so that there is still at least 15 degrees from the max, and 100 degrees is the normal limit that most mobos go with because that's the official number from intel.
Thermal Trip: The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there are no false trips. The processor will stop all executions when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 130 °C. This is signaled to the system by the THRMTRIP# pin.
 

Phaaze88

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OVERCLOCKED and the average was 93 degrees, not overclocked so the way intel ships them they would run even cooler. Even if the limit where to be 100 there would still be quite a bit of temp left to push things.

Also these CPUs can go up to 130 degrees, 115 is the max that can be set by a normal user so that there is still at least 15 degrees from the max, and 100 degrees is the normal limit that most mobos go with because that's the official number from intel.
:ouimaitre:
Better still, even though most users won't have access to that last 15C. Not that it matters, since folks are sweating bullets over these cpus at temperatures far below 100C...
 

edzieba

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OVERCLOCKED and the average was 93 degrees, not overclocked so the way intel ships them they would run even cooler. Even if the limit where to be 100 there would still be quite a bit of temp left to push things.

Also these CPUs can go up to 130 degrees, 115 is the max that can be set by a normal user so that there is still at least 15 degrees from the max, and 100 degrees is the normal limit that most mobos go with because that's the official number from intel.
I'm surprised nobody has done an atmo-pressure (i.e. not low-pressure like a heatpipe or vapour chamber) water-phase-change rig. Set the temperature target at 101°C and let the water boil right off of the IHS. At 2,260 kJ/kg, even pumping 450W (450J/s) into the die that's only 0.2ml of water that needs to evaporate per second.
 
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