Inverse Case: 10 Liters of Custom Mini-ITX Goodness

[anbello262]

Well that's nice. But I wouldn't run that many hard drives with such a tiny cpu and little ventilation. (I mean whats the point of all those hard drives if they're not generating IOPS). As far as for gaming...well I kinda prefer 4k so I don't think I'm going to find an 850plus gold/platinum PSU for it. So that leaves it a KODI/Netflix/TV Browser box. Sure...fine. But i3 Cubies are only $100 more than that case. So why bother?

Well, you are certainly NOT the intended audience for this. Why even comment, when you just want a big sized tower OR a streaming box?

I am REALLY interested in this product. A "console sized" flat PC is my dream case, so I will certainly get one when I can get one in my country (and have saved a bit more for the rest of the components)

 

[bit_user]

Why not 4? It is a challenge, but why not? That's the whole point of making it "the ultimate design choice", isn't it? Make look nice and practical.

I still don't understand why you'd want a really nice looking case, only to have people continually touching it with their greasy hands.

Not to mention scratches from the USB plugs, themselves.

 

[-Fran-]

I still don't understand why you'd want a really nice looking case, only to have people continually touching it with their greasy hands.

Not to mention scratches from the USB plugs, themselves.

Who says I allow people to touch my HTPC?

But seriously, it's just a convenience choice. There's no real importance for, maybe, 99% of the people reading here, but you can't say it is not practical to have more frontal USB ports.

Also, it is the only device I have under my TV. Since I use Studio Monitors (active ones) to drive the sound, I don't really need a Home Theater or any other 5.1 system... Although I do get tempted and droll with Onkyo 7.1 systems from time to time!

In my book, the HTPC has to replace every other component under your TV otherwise you might as well just get a NUC or something less "PC"-ey and more "Android"-ey and fit all other things you want in there. Well, except VCRs I guess... Maybe some Beta Tapes as well, lol. But in terms of "home entertainment", you have to include gaming as well. At least light gaming; although I do play driving games with mine. But yeah, that is just me. In the long run (had it since 2011 so far), this has been the best "design" choice I have gone with in terms of PC assembly.

Cheers!

 

[bit_user]

Who says I allow people to touch my HTPC?

I was just thinking your friends would plug in their controllers. But, if you always do the plugging/unplugging, then you can obviously use care.

There's no real importance for, maybe, 99% of the people reading here, but you can't say it is not practical to have more frontal USB ports.

I did actually argue for 2x ports, above. I get that it's partly aimed at big screen PC gaming.

Since I use Studio Monitors (active ones) to drive the sound, I don't really need a Home Theater or any other 5.1 system... Although I do get tempted and droll with Onkyo 7.1 systems from time to time!

Even a lot of blu-rays are only 5.1. I use a 5.0 setup, with 3x active monitors up front and two passives for the rear. But, you might consider getting 3x additional monitors and either a standalone decoder or (like me) a receiver with preamp outputs. A calibration mic is a must, though. Once you experience properly calibrated surround, you'll never go back.

 

[urbanj]

@rationalbananas_ray

Thanks for posting your answers to all our questions.
Maybe the FAQ section on your Indegogo page (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nverse-the-most-versatile-small-computer-case-design) can be updated with some of them.
I completely missed the bit on the Filters, as it is mentioned on the page, but not the FAQ section. I know it's redundant, but apparently I was in too much of a hurry and too excited that I skipped it the first time

 

[none12345]

Umm, look at all those fans, then look at the case with NO vent holes on top for all those fans pointing up right next to the case.....how does that make any sense?

No thanks!

 

[rationalbananas_ray]

@rationalbananas_ray

Thanks for posting your answers to all our questions.
Maybe the FAQ section on your Indegogo page (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nverse-the-most-versatile-small-computer-case-design) can be updated with some of them.
I completely missed the bit on the Filters, as it is mentioned on the page, but not the FAQ section. I know it's redundant, but apparently I was in too much of a hurry and too excited that I skipped it the first time

Great suggestion, thank you. I will be updating the FAQ section of the Indiegogo today. In fact, I am going to add a lot more information to the Indiegogo page so that people all the information they need to make their decision (need to highlight the fan filter part. got lots of questions about that). Probably want to redo some figures too for improved clarity too.

Umm, look at all those fans, then look at the case with NO vent holes on top for all those fans pointing up right next to the case.....how does that make any sense?

No thanks!

All the fans from the bottom intake cool air, and then the positive pressure pushes the hot exhaust out the 4 sides (not the top since there are no holes there).

If you're worried about thermal performance, here is a thermal test I did on one of the prototypes. I should note that we are working with an i5 overclocked as far as it can go and a Gigabyte R9 390 (probably the hottest card in recent years). We don't try to make ourselves look better by doing nicer tests, what you see is literally the worst case scenario. I also drilled a bunch of extra air holes to test different hole configurations, while allowed the test results to inform our current set of air hole locations (we moved the front airholes from the left to the right).

 

[-Fran-]

I was just thinking your friends would plug in their controllers. But, if you always do the plugging/unplugging, then you can obviously use care.

Well, I was joking to be honest. The plastic at the front is the only thing exposed of the case, so there's really no danger nor annoyance of that happening. And yeah, I do agree with you. The case is "piano black" and the color is just gorgeous, but a fingerprint magnet. Plus people don't really care about taking care of your stuff, unless they value the items like you/we do... I think?

I did actually argue for 2x ports, above. I get that it's partly aimed at big screen PC gaming.

Yes you did.

Even a lot of blu-rays are only 5.1. I use a 5.0 setup, with 3x active monitors up front and two passives for the rear. But, you might consider getting 3x additional monitors and either a standalone decoder or (like me) a receiver with preamp outputs. A calibration mic is a must, though. Once you experience properly calibrated surround, you'll never go back.

That is actually what I plan on doing... Just... Time... Not enough of it. Plus, the monitors are hard to find... I mean, I *need* to listen to them. It is one of those things I can't really order from Amazon... I think... I need to listen to them first.

And I do have a pre-amp, but for the analog mics when we do "serious" karaoke and an external sound card (XFi Titanium... Better than what you might think). But for the monitors I just use the integrated sound card. Now, I did choose a MoBo with low signal noise. It was SO HARD to find information around it. The MoBo has a VIA sound card that is quite decent: VIA VT1708S. I even have the APU (A8 3800) undervolted so it reduces noise as much as possible. Still has some, but not noticeable, fortunately. You plug in any other device to the monitors and the noise is unbearable. I would say that is the only reason I'd get the Onkyo for. Digital from the PC to it and then analog to the monitors... But then, why have monitors with that juicy device... CHOICES! >_<

Cheers!

 

[hleung]

Don't buy this case. Bad design. Aerospace engineer built a heater for your room.

 

[hleung]

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

 

[Turb0Yoda]

Don't buy this case. Bad design. Aerospace engineer built a heater for your room.

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

While I didn't take too deep of a look into the thermals and such... Why would it be a bad design if the GPU and CPU exhaust directly out of the case with minimal restriction? Also, the testing was done with p95 and Ungine. What HTPC or sffpc will be subject to that for a lot of time?

 

[bit_user]

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

It sounds like Toms will be receiving a review unit. So, let's wait for their hands-on review and see their data, before reaching such extreme conclusions, eh?

BTW, the full HDD load is still less than an upper mid-range graphics card. As discussed above, if you're not running a database server (and this ain't the case for that), then the HDDs are probably going to be idling or doing mostly sequential access. So, not even dissipating max power.

 

[urbanj]

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

...says the guy who double posted.

There are plenty of reasons to have a case this compact.
As for "cannot handle the heat".....I don't even know where to start, since you obviously just want to bash this design. There is likely no point in even TRYING to explain things to you.

 

[rationalbananas_ray]

Don't buy this case. Bad design. Aerospace engineer built a heater for your room.

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

While aerospace engineers have the tendency to try and make things combust, we're also pretty good at making things cool down (otherwise reentering the atmosphere at Mach 26 can be kinda dicey) :lol:

Seriously though, if you're interested in thermals, here is the detailed thermal test we did on one of the prototypes. I should note that we are working with an i5 overclocked as far as it can go and a Gigabyte R9 390 (probably the hottest card in recent years). We don't try to make ourselves look better by doing nicer tests, what you see is literally the worst case scenario. I also drilled a bunch of extra air holes to test different hole configurations, while allowed the test results to inform our current set of air hole locations (we moved the front airholes from the left to the right).

Don't buy this case, Heater in your room. Bad design. Theres no need to have a case this small and compact. He displayed all those HD in the system. Cannot handle heat.

It sounds like Toms will be receiving a review unit. So, let's wait for their hands-on review and see their data, before reaching such extreme conclusions, eh?

BTW, the full HDD load is still less than an upper mid-range graphics card. As discussed above, if you're not running a database server (and this ain't the case for that), then the HDDs are probably going to be idling or doing mostly sequential access. So, not even dissipating max power.

Just to clarify, our review unit is with Silent PC Review right now. You guys should be able to get some objective feedback of the case in 1-2 weeks

 

[Lutfij]

rationalbananas_ray,
Thank you for taking the time to followup on our inquiries and advocating your design/ideas! I'ts always nice to see the designer going for a more hands on approach

 

[Kevin_244]

I gotta say I for one am looking forward to this case. I actually just got a rather beefy Sager laptop that can handle 2 1080s, 64GB RAM and 4 SSD/HDs (2 M.2) although I went minimalist on my rig so I can add on later. I still have two larger tower cases that in the past year I have moved completely over to M.2 SSD and SSD drives, with no spinning HDs. Thus, these two cases take up way too much room and power now. I have a separate NAS drive (5 x 4TB RAID 5) which itself is overkill for my home use, but it does allow me to not need to store lots of data that I wont use much (e.g. family photos/videos, VMs, etc) much and not require larger spinning drives in my machines. But, with USB 3.1 Gen 2, I have a 10Gbps hot swap dock for like $30 that I can use to add a spinny to my system for any purpose anyway. Which I do use from time to time. With faster networks (I only have 1GBps right now, but 10Gbps wont be far off for new homes with the advent of 4K and soon 8K video proliferating the market), the speed at copying all but probably the largest files is plenty capable so as not to need spinnys in your system anyway. Add that USB 3.1 Gen 2 flash drives are not too expensive and make it easy enough to add 128/256GB storage (although I would still opt for external or internal SSD despite being more costly).

For me, I do gaming, video editing, and software development. The first two are about the only reason to have big desktops with dual video cards, lots of storage, etc, but even I find I can work with 4K video with a single 1070 video card today and all SSD drives.. the latter of which make it much faster to work with project files anyway. I still offload via USB 3.1 or Thunderbolt 3 larger files/final renders to avoid filling up my 512GB SSD drives obviously.

Thus, what I see is that tower/atx style cases are going to fade out more rapidly with cases like this ITX coming along. The only thing the ITX MBs are missing is 4 slots of memory and the ability to run dual cards, in which case the towers/ATX will still be around for those needs. But this ITX setup with the new Asus/MSI/etc z270 ITX motherboards that support USB 3.1/Thunderbolt 3, M.2 NVMe (some do anyway), have way more than enough to do just about everything you need, including video editing and extreme gaming.

So I for one welcome the smaller design, and cant wait to replace my aging towers with the smaller form factor.

 

[ArthurUSCG]

So, if the case is designed to be placed under a monitor, why not design an external quick connect water cooler system that would mount on the back of the monitor?

Or why not design a case to function as a monitor stand. The overall design would be L shaped going back up behind the monitor. The itx mob mounted horizontaly on the bottom with space for an optical drive and a horizontaly mounted graphics card. Then the vertical backside of the case would have the hard drives, and the CPU cooling pipes with radiator, there would be enough surface area for the graphics card to have a semi passive cooling pipe setup. I am not certain where the PS would be mounted.