Ironic that MS and Adobe are talking since it was Microsoft through it's venture capital front company, vector capital that bought out Corel Corp remaining shares and took it private when it was in trouble and once it was back in the black it's now a profitable publicly traded company. Back as far back as Windows 1-3.x Corel DRAW sold many on Windows since it was the only graphics application for Windows. Also Adobe was the only graphics tools of any import for Apple... Times they do a change...
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Vladislaus
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[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]I'm guessing you know next to nothing about computers, or you'd never make the remarks about Microsoft.[/citation]
Of course I know next to nothing! I work at IT, so what's your job?
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Of course, Apple beat them to the GUI idea[/citation]
Dear lord and Apple fans still wonder why they are disliked by the rest of the tech community. Apple did beat Microsoft to the use of the GUI, but it certainly wasn't their idea. Apple stole the GUI from Xerox. In fact the GUI of the Mac OS X still looks like the on the Xerox Star, the only difference is the dock. But the dock was stolen from Sun's Looking Glass. The mouse? That's right it was also stolen from Xerox. So who's the one that doesn't know anything about computers?
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]I have no idea what this has to do with Apple. Apple is a completely opposite company. They have created new things for the marketplace throughout their history, and gouged their customers for the pleasure.[/citation]
Could you please show me a truly revolutionary product from Apple? There isn't any. What Apple's done is release existing tech with flair. So Microsoft isn't alone.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Adobe Flash is buggy as Hell. It's also slow. Didn't you read how everyone is moving away from it? It's got too many issues. Even the companies that say they'll keep using it never say it's good, just that it's out there, and a de-facto standard. But, its days are numbered. [/citation]
Flash does have it's bugs, but it's far from being buggy has hell. It's slow but still faster than the alternatives. It's days aren't numbered HTML 5 has a long road ahead if it wants to get ahead of flash because it is way a lot slower than flash in rendering animations. The best they can hope is replace flash in video sites but even that is in danger because the W3C failed to reach an agreement of the video codec to be used. Also the reason many claim that flash is slow is because some websites exaggerate in its use, specially movie sites.
Of course I know next to nothing! I work at IT, so what's your job?
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Of course, Apple beat them to the GUI idea[/citation]
Dear lord and Apple fans still wonder why they are disliked by the rest of the tech community. Apple did beat Microsoft to the use of the GUI, but it certainly wasn't their idea. Apple stole the GUI from Xerox. In fact the GUI of the Mac OS X still looks like the on the Xerox Star, the only difference is the dock. But the dock was stolen from Sun's Looking Glass. The mouse? That's right it was also stolen from Xerox. So who's the one that doesn't know anything about computers?
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]I have no idea what this has to do with Apple. Apple is a completely opposite company. They have created new things for the marketplace throughout their history, and gouged their customers for the pleasure.[/citation]
Could you please show me a truly revolutionary product from Apple? There isn't any. What Apple's done is release existing tech with flair. So Microsoft isn't alone.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Adobe Flash is buggy as Hell. It's also slow. Didn't you read how everyone is moving away from it? It's got too many issues. Even the companies that say they'll keep using it never say it's good, just that it's out there, and a de-facto standard. But, its days are numbered. [/citation]
Flash does have it's bugs, but it's far from being buggy has hell. It's slow but still faster than the alternatives. It's days aren't numbered HTML 5 has a long road ahead if it wants to get ahead of flash because it is way a lot slower than flash in rendering animations. The best they can hope is replace flash in video sites but even that is in danger because the W3C failed to reach an agreement of the video codec to be used. Also the reason many claim that flash is slow is because some websites exaggerate in its use, specially movie sites.
Vladislaus
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- Jul 29, 2010
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]The companies, no, but definitely the products. Especially MS products, since Adobe products are normally used by people with a clue about them. Tech support exists for a reason.[/citation]
So tons and tons of companies that use windows is because their IT personnel don't have a clue what they're doing?
So Apple doesn't have a tech support? Oh that's right they don't, whenever they have a problem they hide it behind a door so that anyone doesn't see it.
So tons and tons of companies that use windows is because their IT personnel don't have a clue what they're doing?
So Apple doesn't have a tech support? Oh that's right they don't, whenever they have a problem they hide it behind a door so that anyone doesn't see it.
- Jul 24, 2006
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[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]So tons and tons of companies that use windows is because their IT personnel don't have a clue what they're doing?[/citation]
You said it, not me (in fact that's the opposite of what I said). I was referring to consumers anyway. But to an extent it is true. There are a lot of "IT professionals" who are really "Windows professionals" and who would crumble if they had to step outside of their clicky-clicky comfort zone.
I don't know why you brought up Apple. I guess it was just to add some extra kick to your argument because it's cool to bash Apple on this site. Too bad your comment was irrelevant since I never mentioned Apple.
You said it, not me (in fact that's the opposite of what I said). I was referring to consumers anyway. But to an extent it is true. There are a lot of "IT professionals" who are really "Windows professionals" and who would crumble if they had to step outside of their clicky-clicky comfort zone.
I don't know why you brought up Apple. I guess it was just to add some extra kick to your argument because it's cool to bash Apple on this site. Too bad your comment was irrelevant since I never mentioned Apple.
[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Of course I know next to nothing! I work at IT, so what's your job?Dear lord and Apple fans still wonder why they are disliked by the rest of the tech community. Apple did beat Microsoft to the use of the GUI, but it certainly wasn't their idea. Apple stole the GUI from Xerox. In fact the GUI of the Mac OS X still looks like the on the Xerox Star, the only difference is the dock. But the dock was stolen from Sun's Looking Glass. The mouse? That's right it was also stolen from Xerox. So who's the one that doesn't know anything about computers?Could you please show me a truly revolutionary product from Apple? There isn't any. What Apple's done is release existing tech with flair. So Microsoft isn't alone.Flash does have it's bugs, but it's far from being buggy has hell. It's slow but still faster than the alternatives. It's days aren't numbered HTML 5 has a long road ahead if it wants to get ahead of flash because it is way a lot slower than flash in rendering animations. The best they can hope is replace flash in video sites but even that is in danger because the W3C failed to reach an agreement of the video codec to be used. Also the reason many claim that flash is slow is because some websites exaggerate in its use, specially movie sites.[/citation]
Actually, you don't know much about the mouse. It was not created a Palo Alto. Also, you completely misread what I wrote. I said Apple created new markets. They didn't have to invent everything, but they created the market.
I'm not a big Apple fan, but you're putting me in a position where I have to tell you what they do right. The Ipod created a market. The Apple II was quite unique when it was made, and IBM picked up more than a little from the design (like the slots). The Lisa was way ahead of anything in the PC world. The iPad is selling surprisingly well. The iPhone changed the way people interacted with phones, and made them quite a bit of money doing it.
Only a complete idiot would say Microsoft has created markets the way Apple has. Microsoft goes into markets created by other companies, or they fail. Even when they do, they often fail if they can't use their monopoly position to good advantage.
If you think Flash is here to stay, you're probably not in IT, or you're a gopher boy for the real IT people. Flash is going away. It's too buggy, and too slow, and no one likes it, except for you.
Keep in mind, I don't like Apple, and the only Apples I have owned are antiques. They have ALWAYS been overpriced, even going back to the Apple II days. Microsoft has always made garbage, but at least they haven't gouged their customers the way Apple has, or charged a premium for style (then again, Microsoft has none).
But, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure. Hell, they can't even write a compiler as well as a hardware company (Intel), despite making quite a bit of money selling it. And yes, they have the same information Intel has in terms of optimizing for the processor (which Intel obviously wants Microsoft to be good at), but even on AMD processors, Intel compilers run faster. This is ludicrous, shocking, and appalling. Or, in short, it's Microsoft.
Actually, you don't know much about the mouse. It was not created a Palo Alto. Also, you completely misread what I wrote. I said Apple created new markets. They didn't have to invent everything, but they created the market.
I'm not a big Apple fan, but you're putting me in a position where I have to tell you what they do right. The Ipod created a market. The Apple II was quite unique when it was made, and IBM picked up more than a little from the design (like the slots). The Lisa was way ahead of anything in the PC world. The iPad is selling surprisingly well. The iPhone changed the way people interacted with phones, and made them quite a bit of money doing it.
Only a complete idiot would say Microsoft has created markets the way Apple has. Microsoft goes into markets created by other companies, or they fail. Even when they do, they often fail if they can't use their monopoly position to good advantage.
If you think Flash is here to stay, you're probably not in IT, or you're a gopher boy for the real IT people. Flash is going away. It's too buggy, and too slow, and no one likes it, except for you.
Keep in mind, I don't like Apple, and the only Apples I have owned are antiques. They have ALWAYS been overpriced, even going back to the Apple II days. Microsoft has always made garbage, but at least they haven't gouged their customers the way Apple has, or charged a premium for style (then again, Microsoft has none).
But, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure. Hell, they can't even write a compiler as well as a hardware company (Intel), despite making quite a bit of money selling it. And yes, they have the same information Intel has in terms of optimizing for the processor (which Intel obviously wants Microsoft to be good at), but even on AMD processors, Intel compilers run faster. This is ludicrous, shocking, and appalling. Or, in short, it's Microsoft.
Vladislaus
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[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]The Ipod created a market.[/citation]The first Mp3 player was launched in 1997 the iPod in 2001. So all the other successful PMPs before the iPod didn't started the market.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]If you think Flash is here to stay, you're probably not in IT, or you're a gopher boy for the real IT people. Flash is going away. It's too buggy, and too slow, and no one likes it, except for you.[/citation]
First I never stated that I like Flash, I just don't have a problem with it. But there's still no alternative to it unless you count silverlight. Like I said HTML5 has a very long road ahead if it wants to replace flash. The only thing I see them succeeding in the very near future is replacing flash in videos but even that is uncertain because of the lack of codec consensus. Apple wants H.264 and refuses to use any other codec. Mozilla and opera refuse to pay royalties for h.264 so they support only theora (webm will be supported in the future). Chrome and the IE9 are the only browsers that will support all three codecs (ie9 will play both theora and webm if the codecs are installed in the system). So this confusion can put even this prospect in danger. Of course people can still solve the problem by using flash that also supports all three codecs, but then it would mean that all the trouble the w3c had in creating html would have been for nothing.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]But, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure. Hell, they can't even write a compiler as well as a hardware company (Intel), despite making quite a bit of money selling it. And yes, they have the same information Intel has in terms of optimizing for the processor (which Intel obviously wants Microsoft to be good at), but even on AMD processors, Intel compilers run faster. This is ludicrous, shocking, and appalling. Or, in short, it's Microsoft.[/citation]
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]ut, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure.[/citation]Microsoft may be a copycat but so is Apple.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]If you think Flash is here to stay, you're probably not in IT, or you're a gopher boy for the real IT people. Flash is going away. It's too buggy, and too slow, and no one likes it, except for you.[/citation]
First I never stated that I like Flash, I just don't have a problem with it. But there's still no alternative to it unless you count silverlight. Like I said HTML5 has a very long road ahead if it wants to replace flash. The only thing I see them succeeding in the very near future is replacing flash in videos but even that is uncertain because of the lack of codec consensus. Apple wants H.264 and refuses to use any other codec. Mozilla and opera refuse to pay royalties for h.264 so they support only theora (webm will be supported in the future). Chrome and the IE9 are the only browsers that will support all three codecs (ie9 will play both theora and webm if the codecs are installed in the system). So this confusion can put even this prospect in danger. Of course people can still solve the problem by using flash that also supports all three codecs, but then it would mean that all the trouble the w3c had in creating html would have been for nothing.
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]But, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure. Hell, they can't even write a compiler as well as a hardware company (Intel), despite making quite a bit of money selling it. And yes, they have the same information Intel has in terms of optimizing for the processor (which Intel obviously wants Microsoft to be good at), but even on AMD processors, Intel compilers run faster. This is ludicrous, shocking, and appalling. Or, in short, it's Microsoft.[/citation]
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]ut, I respect the innovator more than the copycat that can't sell anything without monopoly pressure.[/citation]Microsoft may be a copycat but so is Apple.
LORD_ORION
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>>Is an Adobe Acquisition in the Cards for Microsoft?
Why? So MS can pay Corel another 250 million in competitive penalties to keep the DOJ off their back?
I would be surprised if MS bought Adobe, as that would be a blunder. That would align a MS product against every Corel product, and it would be even more expensive to keep Corel in business to maintain the illusion of competition.
Why? So MS can pay Corel another 250 million in competitive penalties to keep the DOJ off their back?
I would be surprised if MS bought Adobe, as that would be a blunder. That would align a MS product against every Corel product, and it would be even more expensive to keep Corel in business to maintain the illusion of competition.
rottingsheep
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buy adobe, stop making adobe cs for mac, people lose interest in mac, apple goes bust, ms buys apple. if only this could happen...
Fail....
Vladislaus did not state he liked FLASH. Sounds like ur putting words into his mouth.
I'm an IT Pro for 12yrs now and as a System Admin/Developer who Support Webdevelopment "using" Flash, find your statements ludicrous. With that being said, as much as I DISLIKE(Caps for you) Flash, name one alternative that will work and do everything flash can? Flash has also come a long way from being slow, resource hog to one of the fastest and best at what it does. Fact - 80% of the internet uses flash. So ur argument about flash going away...is rather irrelavent. And like others have stated, HTML 5 is years from replacing flash. Your false misconception of flash being dead in the near future and argument that only real IT people see on par with your opinion is laughable at best.
Example: Lets just say that if HTML 5 is ready now - today and does everything FlASH does, it will still take 2-5 yrs for the whole internet community and private business to fully change to and or adopt HTML 5. Also, do you even realize the business/private impact it would take to change from flash to any alternate web content creation program? (Man hours, more servers, etc)
Like it or not, FlASH is used by 80% of the internet sites, perhaps in 5yrs-10yrs FLASH will die out. But then again, thats a long time for ADOBE. And in those 5yrs -10yrs, who would rule out that ADOBE can't further improve FLASH? And who is to say that perhaps in 5yrs - 10yrs HTML 5 will still be the same as it is now?
That is my argument.
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[citation][nom]r3t4rd[/nom]Like it or not, FlASH is used by 80% of the internet sites, perhaps in 5yrs-10yrs FLASH will die out. But then again, thats a long time for ADOBE. And in those 5yrs -10yrs, who would rule out that ADOBE can't further improve FLASH? And who is to say that perhaps in 5yrs - 10yrs HTML 5 will still be the same as it is now? That is my argument.[/citation]
Flash can't die until other alternatives take over, and other alternatives can't take over until developers let Flash die. Catch-22.
Flash can't die until other alternatives take over, and other alternatives can't take over until developers let Flash die. Catch-22.
kencolestud69
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Man... I wish I had enough money to start buying Adobe stock. However, if that happens, I will donate all my M$ products to the homeless and try my whole life convincing everyone I meet to install OpenOffice instead. Also, start telling people.
kencolestud69
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Flash can't die until other alternatives take over, and other alternatives can't take over until developers let Flash die. Catch-22.[/citation]
Very well stated randomizer. Was what I was trying to say but I was giving him examples if for some reason FLASH was usurped by HTML5 within the next few years.
Very well stated randomizer. Was what I was trying to say but I was giving him examples if for some reason FLASH was usurped by HTML5 within the next few years.
dark_lord69
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ithurtswhenipee
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I don't see why a merger would be necessary. The two companies can still provide integrating between their products and compete with apple just as good and not have any anti trust issues to deal with.
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