Question Is HP throttling my CPU ?

[LizardPrim]

I have an HP Victus 15L Desktop PC with an Intel i5-12400 CPU and I noticed in HWiNFO that my power limits are severely restricted.

PL1= 65 watts (28 second limit.)
PL2= ONLY 2ms time limit. (So that won't work at all.) So effectively PL2 turbo boost is limited to 65 watts, instead of 117 as proper spec

PL1 should NOT have a time limit. That means the cpu can only sustain 65 watts for 28 seconds. I'm thinking it's power throttling me bad. What percentage of performance loss?

How much performance am I losing from my cpu with this when gaming? I have a geforce 4070 super in it.
This system also only has cl22 ram(only ram it will take) running at 3200. BIOS is completely LOCKED. Can't change anything.

I only care about gaming, some of games are cpu bottlenecked obviously.Just wondering if this cpu is not as powerful as normal 12400 due to power limit changes by hp

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

That VRM does not inspire confidence in anything meant to run at 100W. You might also want to read through this reddit post.

As for your BIOS;
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Gamin...vanced-Settings-In-Hp-Victus-15L/td-p/9028534

 

[LizardPrim]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

That VRM does not inspire confidence in anything meant to run at 100W. You might also want to read through this reddit post.

As for your BIOS;
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Gamin...vanced-Settings-In-Hp-Victus-15L/td-p/9028534

Hello.

That person on reddit was asking about upgrading 12,400. I'm just wondering if my 12,400 is operating like a normal 12,400 due to pl limits that aren't to spec even for that chip.

I ran Cinebench 2024 and my cpu all core speed was around 3500 to 3600hz. Isn't is supposed to be at 4,000hz all core?

I got 609 for all core and 96 for single. This is the new 2024 cinebench, not the old 23. They changed the numbers.

 

[Lutfij]

You missed the part in that reddit post about the board being locked at 65W and effectively locking any end users out of the BIOS with regards to voltage/power manipulation. If you're interested in those features, you should return the prebuilt and go for a build with off the shelf parts. There's nothing you can do with your prebuilt to change the lockout unless you know how to flash the BIOS on the prebuilt with one that's modified(which will also void your warranty).

One more thing, if you look around the forums, you'll see that HP's Omen range of desktops are also flops.

 

[LizardPrim]

You missed the part in that reddit post about the board being locked at 65W and effectively locking any end users out of the BIOS with regards to voltage/power manipulation. If you're interested in those features, you should return the prebuilt and go for a build with off the shelf parts. There's nothing you can do with your prebuilt to change the lockout unless you know how to flash the BIOS on the prebuilt with one that's modified(which will also void your warranty).

One more thing, if you look around the forums, you'll see that HP's Omen range of desktops are also flops.

There's certainly some limitations, but the cpu clock is still running at 4,000hz on cpu core clock checked with msi afterburner when running spiderman remastered so I'm guessing that means the cpu is operating an spec capacity and the wattage decrease is not affecting it? I'm not talking about overclocking, just spec.

My gpu usage for Spiderman is horrible at any resolution including 4k. Dipping into upper 60s percentage gpu usage at times and flunctuating wildly. People online who have done benchmarks have near 99 percent gpu usage on that game with a top of the line processor. I'm guessing the 12400 is just a little weak for the geforce 4070 super.

My game actually runs better at 4k then 1080p on spiderman. My fps is slightly lower at 1080p.

Many Other games this is not a problem and gpu usage is at 99 percent, but spiderman is heavily cpu intensive.

 

[LizardPrim]

And I can't return the computer. I bought it 6months ago.

 

[uWebb429]

PL1= 65 watts (28 second limit.)
PL2= ONLY 2ms time limit.

You are not interpreting the power limit information correctly. The CPU will use the PL2 power limit for up to 28 seconds before switching to the PL1 power limit which it can run at indefinitely after that. The 2 ms time limit is the amount of time that the CPU can run beyond the PL2 power limit. This amount of time is designed to limit the CPU to the PL2 power limit almost immediately. Your computer seems to be using the Intel recommended default specs.

If you want to try going beyond that or if you want to confirm that the power limits are set correctly, try using,

ThrottleStop 9.6
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Post a screenshot of the TPL window. If the turbo power limits are not locked by the BIOS, you can increase these limits. A screenshot will show what adjustments are available to you. If a CPU is not power limit throttling, increasing the turbo power limits will not make any difference.

 

[LizardPrim]

You are not interpreting the power limit information correctly. The CPU will use the PL2 power limit for up to 28 seconds before switching to the PL1 power limit which it can run at indefinitely after that. The 2 ms time limit is the amount of time that the CPU can run beyond the PL2 power limit. This amount of time is designed to limit the CPU to the PL2 power limit almost immediately. Your computer seems to be using the Intel recommended default specs.

If you want to try going beyond that or if you want to confirm that the power limits are set correctly, try using,

ThrottleStop 9.6
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Post a screenshot of the TPL window. If the turbo power limits are not locked by the BIOS, you can increase these limits. A screenshot will show what adjustments are available to you. If a CPU is not power limit throttling, increasing the turbo power limits will not make any difference.

Thank you so much! Yes. I interpreted it incorrectly. I actually bought a 12700F(65 watt tdp) that is being shipped to me. Do you think this will make a big difference in fps in cpu limited games? I get frame rate stutters/low 1 percent fps in a few games I play. It's these frame rate drops that are the limiting factor. High fps and average is good enough

Or should I just send the cpu back without trying it? I'm assuming my 16bg dual 22-Cl ram doesn't make a huge difference in fps lows. My research shows a few fps average at best at lower res. I play at 2k and 4k on a 75 inch tv.

This guy linked below is absolutely destroying my performance on spiderman getting like 130-200fps, with 85 fps 1 percent and nearly 99 percent gpu usage.I get like 90-119fps for highs and 1 percent lows are in the mid 50s with occasional .1 percent stutters below that. I'm on ssd. He's using a 13600K @ 5.6GHz with a 4070. My 4070 super is more powerful as well. Will getting a 12,700F(officially supported by hp for my MB), make a difference?
(15 minutes mark)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Zq_iyNCcs&t=1007s

 

[kerberos_20]

This guy linked below is absolutely destroying my performance on spiderman getting like 130-200fps, with 85 fps 1 percent and nearly 99 percent gpu usage.I get like 90-119fps for highs and 1 percent lows are in the mid 50s with occasional .1 percent stutters below that. I'm on ssd. He's using a 13600K @ 5.6GHz with a 4070. My 4070 super is more powerful as well. Will getting a 12,700F(officially supported by hp for my MB), make a difference?
(15 minutes mark)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Zq_iyNCcs&t=1007s

but his cpu runs at 90+ watts and yet he is still cpu limited

 

[LizardPrim]

but his cpu runs at 90+ watts and yet he is still cpu limited

Really only when he turned on ray tracing was he badly cpu limited. I never use ray tracing anyway. Other than that it was pretty well balanced. Only a little cpu limited. Upper 90s gpu usage the whole time. Mine can drop to 50 and shoot up to 95 then go to 80. Snowrunner is even worse for me. Fps drops to 15fps. I just switched to xbox for that game. Going from 100 fps to sub 30 is horrible and locking fps doesnt help and I love high fps even in slow games.

 

[35below0]

That motherboard is not meant for gaming or high performance. It will limit whichever CPU you put in it.

I have a $93 Gigabyte B760M DS3H D4 that is barely adequate for a 12400 and it would still run circles around whatever HP stuck into that case. Plus, BIOS access.

You have a 4070 Super, and a 12400F. For a few hundred dollars, you could build something that could actualy run your components at full power.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (Purchased For $0.00)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690 PG Riptide ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($128.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB OC GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER 12 GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Montech AIR 903 MAX ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.00 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $367.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-02 17:20 EDT-0400

 

[LizardPrim]

That motherboard is not meant for gaming or high performance. It will limit whichever CPU you put in it.

I have a $93 Gigabyte B760M DS3H D4 that is barely adequate for a 12400 and it would still run circles around whatever HP stuck into that case. Plus, BIOS access.

You have a 4070 Super, and a 12400F. For a few hundred dollars, you could build something that could actualy run your components at full power.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (Purchased For $0.00)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690 PG Riptide ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($128.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB OC GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER 12 GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Montech AIR 903 MAX ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.00 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $367.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-02 17:20 EDT-0400

I appreciate the list. Wouldn't it be better to get the ddr5 version of that motherboard? It's on amazon for 109. And would this one be ok too ASUS Prime B760-PLUS Intel B760, It's hard to find motherboard benchmarks/reviews

Before I buy all of that, how do you know that hp motherboard is holding everything back by a lot? Are there any benchmarks you could show me. I know it's proprietary, which is unfortunate. But actual performance? Like benchmarking exact system specs between hp and few other custom builds? I know it has slower CL22 ram, but the 12400 isn't that power hungry.

 

[LizardPrim]

To be honest, I like my victus and don't want to build a new pc when I just got this one. Years ago I built a pc with a vodoo card and it was totally unreliable and crashing a lot. It required troubleshooting. Ive heard am5 platform has the same issues. I find hp very easy and plug and play. They just work. They hardly crash. They do have downsides like proprietary nature. E.g. being forced to use cl22 ram. I wish they would stop that. Some games are simply badly optimized and require a ton from the cpu. I think I'm just going to try my luck with the 12700f cpu and just return it if I don't see a difference in cpu limited games. According to bench marks, it barely makes any difference for gaming between 12400 and 12700f. I'll be curious to see if that's actually true in my own usage case. I've also read that the 12400 is plenty for the 4070 super. I disagree for cpu limited badly optimized games which are common unfortunately.

 

[35below0]

I appreciate the list. Wouldn't it be better to get the ddr5 version of that motherboard? It's on amazon for 109.

Up to you. DDR5 RAM is more expensive. You already have a RAM kit so even the DDR4 one i listed is optional. It's faster but a luxury rather than a neccesity.

And would this one be ok too ASUS Prime B760-PLUS Intel B760, It's hard to find motherboard benchmarks/reviews

Not really. Asus Prime boards are not the best and the B760 is a budget chipset. The z690 is a flagship chipset for the 12th gen Intels. Those boards are superior though they were pricier close to launch. Today prices have come down because the z790 motherboards are the current flagships, though their specs are not much better.

Anyway, the Riptide is going to support not only the 12400F that you've got, but it can also run a newer 14700, should you want to upgrade to it once it's price comes down. That is a more powerful i7 and probably the best you can buy today unless you have money to burn and an endowment to pay your electricity bills.

Before I buy all of that, how do you know that hp motherboard is holding everything back by a lot? Are there any benchmarks you could show me. I know it's proprietary, which is unfortunate. But actual performance? Like benchmarking exact system specs between hp and few other custom builds? I know it has slower CL22 ram, but the 12400 isn't that power hungry.

The 12400 is hardly a match for a 4070 Super. HP and Dell have a habit of selling powerful GPUs in mediocre systems that severly limit their actual potential.

One dead giveaway is the lack of any heat spreaders on the power delivery side. Even dirt cheap motherboards will have something to dissipate the heat, unless there's going to be no heat because the CPU isn't going to get the power that would allow it to generate any. Which is what is happening to your gaming performance.

You say you only care about gaming and your scores are poor. The reason is the motherboard which is not meant for any serious gaming. The GPU has to do all the heavy lifting, which it can manage but if the CPU also has to deliver, it will be restricted.

Even the CPU fan on that picture looks hopeless. The 12400 normally comes with a better stock fan.

You can read more here: https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-vrm/

The memory kit isn't such a huge problem.


I know you're not looking forward to building a new PC, and i don't think you should. Just get a proper motherboard like the Riptide, and a new case if you must. The Montech isn't too expensive at least and comes with fans installed so you don't have to buy any.
A new power supply is needed but you will be glad to have it.
You probably don't want to do this much either, but you've hit the limit of your gaming performance and have no other choice than to put up with it or upgrade.

Reuse as much as you can. Without new RAM, the cost is under $300. And it will not only be unlocked, but you will have something to build on in the coming years, upgrade-wise.


Lastly:
- the 12700 needs a better motherboard much more than the 12400.
- 12400 is second from the bottom of the entire Alder Lake line up. It's not too bad, but it's hardly a flier. Also, define "plenty"? As you have seen from first hand experience, it's very game-dependant whether it's plenty or not
- AM5 being unreliable is rubbish and bordering on disinformation, and i'm more team Intel than AMD. AM5 is currently the ideal platform for gaming, though it is limited to DDR5.
- The problem with HP/Dell/etc. isn't so much the proprietary stuff, it's how much money they take to sell a crippled product. That they don't crash is not a virtue. They're not supposed to crash.
- They do have some very good models, esp. non-gaming PCs. And yes, being able to just plug it in without having to figure out which damn power connector goes onto which naked pin is a definite plus for anyone but those mad enough to actualy like building PCs.

 

[LizardPrim]

Up to you. DDR5 RAM is more expensive. You already have a RAM kit so even the DDR4 one i listed is optional. It's faster but a luxury rather than a neccesity.

Not really. Asus Prime boards are not the best and the B760 is a budget chipset. The z690 is a flagship chipset for the 12th gen Intels. Those boards are superior though they were pricier close to launch. Today prices have come down because the z790 motherboards are the current flagships, though their specs are not much better.

Anyway, the Riptide is going to support not only the 12400F that you've got, but it can also run a newer 14700, should you want to upgrade to it once it's price comes down. That is a more powerful i7 and probably the best you can buy today unless you have money to burn and an endowment to pay your electricity bills.

The 12400 is hardly a match for a 4070 Super. HP and Dell have a habit of selling powerful GPUs in mediocre systems that severly limit their actual potential.

One dead giveaway is the lack of any heat spreaders on the power delivery side. Even dirt cheap motherboards will have something to dissipate the heat, unless there's going to be no heat because the CPU isn't going to get the power that would allow it to generate any. Which is what is happening to your gaming performance.

You say you only care about gaming and your scores are poor. The reason is the motherboard which is not meant for any serious gaming. The GPU has to do all the heavy lifting, which it can manage but if the CPU also has to deliver, it will be restricted.

Even the CPU fan on that picture looks hopeless. The 12400 normally comes with a better stock fan.

You can read more here: https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-vrm/

The memory kit isn't such a huge problem.


I know you're not looking forward to building a new PC, and i don't think you should. Just get a proper motherboard like the Riptide, and a new case if you must. The Montech isn't too expensive at least and comes with fans installed so you don't have to buy any.
A new power supply is needed but you will be glad to have it.
You probably don't want to do this much either, but you've hit the limit of your gaming performance and have no other choice than to put up with it or upgrade.

Reuse as much as you can. Without new RAM, the cost is under $300. And it will not only be unlocked, but you will have something to build on in the coming years, upgrade-wise.


Lastly:
- the 12700 needs a better motherboard much more than the 12400.
- 12400 is second from the bottom of the entire Alder Lake line up. It's not too bad, but it's hardly a flier. Also, define "plenty"? As you have seen from first hand experience, it's very game-dependant whether it's plenty or not
- AM5 being unreliable is rubbish and bordering on disinformation, and i'm more team Intel than AMD. AM5 is currently the ideal platform for gaming, though it is limited to DDR5.
- The problem with HP/Dell/etc. isn't so much the proprietary stuff, it's how much money they take to sell a crippled product. That they don't crash is not a virtue. They're not supposed to crash.
- They do have some very good models, esp. non-gaming PCs. And yes, being able to just plug it in without having to figure out which damn power connector goes onto which naked pin is a definite plus for anyone but those mad enough to actualy like building PCs.

Yeah the case is proprietary as well so it can't be reused. I'm guessing any cheap atx case will do. I just don't want to go through all of this and have the exact same results or a slight improvement in Many games and many people seem to have stutter problems in some games. I have no personal experience with am5. Just what I read which could be wrong. If you google 12400 bottleneck with 4070 most people say it's a fine combination that doesn't bottleneck. Not sure I agree with that

 

[LizardPrim]

I found it fun building a pc. The proccess was good. But My y last result though a Long time ago was bad.

It's more the money aspect and me not having a good result. I'd probably just start from scratch and just reuse the video card since I could use tlmy old pc with my monitor for web browsing. It has integrated graphics. My computer is hooked up to my tv. It's basically a gaming machine. Maybe I should think about am5 for next computer. The only salvageable part is the cpu. I wouldn't even want to reuse ram since it's cl22 and ddr4.

 

[35below0]

Yeah the case is proprietary as well so it can't be reused. I'm guessing any cheap atx case will do. I just don't want to go through all of this and have the exact same results or a slight improvement in Many games and many people seem to have stutter problems in some games.

Well, you don't really have to. If you can live with occasional stutters or bad performance.

Spending money after having spent money isn't fun *shrug*

When you do decide you want better performance, consider what you would need.
- case
- PSU
- motherboard
- optional RAM
- very optional CPU

If you can keep to cost of that lot low, you could extend the life of your RTX 4070 Super, and possibly even squeeze another upgrade later on.

If you buy a z690/z790 motherboard, you will be able to comfortably run all the 12/13/14th gen intels.
DDR4 is still good RAM and is cheaper and has lower latency.

Ask here before parting with you cash. Always good to have many people double check things.

I have no personal experience with am5. Just what I read which could be wrong.

AMD unreliability is an old story. Used to be true ages ago but not these days. AMD CPUs are more sensitive to RAM, so having faster RAM helps performance, and having compatible RAM is a must.

If you google 12400 bottleneck with 4070 most people say it's a fine combination that doesn't bottleneck. Not sure I agree with that

Every CPU+GPU combo is uneven. One always "bottlenecks" the other, but the difference can be difficult to notice. And there are games that will demand more from one or the other.

The 12400 is a pretty decent CPU but it's low on the totem pole and that's that.

 

[LizardPrim]

Well, you don't really have to. If you can live with occasional stutters or bad performance.

Spending money after having spent money isn't fun *shrug*

When you do decide you want better performance, consider what you would need.
- case
- PSU
- motherboard
- optional RAM
- very optional CPU

If you can keep to cost of that lot low, you could extend the life of your RTX 4070 Super, and possibly even squeeze another upgrade later on.

If you buy a z690/z790 motherboard, you will be able to comfortably run all the 12/13/14th gen intels.
DDR4 is still good RAM and is cheaper and has lower latency.

Ask here before parting with you cash. Always good to have many people double check things.

AMD unreliability is an old story. Used to be true ages ago but not these days. AMD CPUs are more sensitive to RAM, so having faster RAM helps performance, and having compatible RAM is a must.

Every CPU+GPU combo is uneven. One always "bottlenecks" the other, but the difference can be difficult to notice. And there are games that will demand more from one or the other.

The 12400 is a pretty decent CPU but it's low on the totem pole and that's that.

Thanks for the help. I did a little more research though and I think spiderman just a really tough game that needs a better cpu. Other people have issues as well with similar cpus. It's just cpu heavy. My slow ram is probably making it a but slower., but I don't think the 12400 is up to the task of super high fps and levereaging everythinga 4070 can offer in cpu heavy games. I'd probably need a way faster cpu with proper power as well. And ddr5 memory. Hardware unboxed did a video on spiderman cpu benchmarks. I have no idea how he got the 12400 that high fps! A lot higher than mine for 1 percent lows. Almost double. Shocked he managed over 100 fps for 1 percent lows at 4k medium. I was below 60. Other people in reddit didn't get those numbers either and they don't have hp.

 

[LizardPrim]

By going to the 1080 low I was over 200fps. It's just a tough game. I think my system might be ok. I had vsync on before. LOL. Now I know my cpu is not completely bottlenecked at lower res and very low settings. Even 2k low had high fps. Very bizarre. It's the lower settings have less people therefore less rrain on cpu I think .

 

[kerberos_20]

Hardware unboxed did a video on spiderman cpu benchmarks. I have no idea how he got the 12400 that high fps! A lot higher than mine for 1 percent lows.

but youre comparing overclocked CPU and overclocked RAM with your in spec non overclocked CPU and non overclocked RAM...ofcourse there would be huge difference on 1% low, that is overclock dependent...better overclock on both cpu/ram, better 1% lows

 

[LizardPrim]

but youre comparing overclocked CPU and overclocked RAM with your in spec non overclocked CPU and non overclocked RAM...ofcourse there would be huge difference on 1% low, that is overclock dependent...better overclock on both cpu/ram, better 1% lows

I just changed some settings in spiderman and it's running wonderfully. Super high frame rate experience even at 4k. That was not possible at all on my previous 4060. Super 4070 basically double my performance in most games.

Yeah. A lot of this is just terrible optimization. I just expected all games to get better with my new pc. Far cry 4 will have frame rate drops no matter what for example. At 720p Low it will still stutter no matter how powerful your system is. Ubisoft is just horrible. I generally play older games from a few years ago at 2k/4k with high settings and high fps. All single player mostly.

My performance on my hp victus overall if fantastic and I'm happy with it.

Now I just need to figure out if it's worth it to upgrade my ram to 32 mb from 16. I think probably not? And whether to upgrade my processor to the 12700. I'm thinking it probably won't help much due to most of the problems I have being with game optimization.

 

[kerberos_20]

for farcry4, disable hyperthreading, that should solve performance issue on any modern cpu..its old game, it doesnt like your modern fancy cpu at all

 

[LizardPrim]

for farcry4, disable hyperthreading, that should solve performance issue on any modern cpu..its old game, it doesnt like your modern fancy cpu at all

I just deleted it. I have it on xbox as well. How do I do that?

 

[kerberos_20]

I just deleted it. I have it on xbox as well. How do I do that?

in bios, HT (hyperthreading) set to off/disabled
fc3/fc primal/fc 4 all runs like potato on modern cpu with HT on
those games dont scale over 4 cores it just makes framerate unstable with too many cores available (6+6 is no go)
no self experience with what it does with P+E cores....but quick google search shows random unstable framerate with 13600k..so also not great

 

[LizardPrim]

in bios, HT (hyperthreading) set to off/disabled
fc3/fc primal/fc 4 all runs like potato on modern cpu with HT on
those games dont scale over 4 cores it just makes framerate unstable with too many cores available (6+6 is no go)
no self experience with what it does with P+E cores....but quick google search shows random unstable framerate with 13600k..so also not great

I have no e cores. Regardless, disabling made a massive difference. The game is now better than playing on xbox(1080p 60fps). I'm playing at 2k 120 with occasional frame dips to 60 and only one stutter below that playing for 25 minutes. It was a complete mess before. Do I have to reenable hyperthreading for other games?