Question Is Intel 5th Gen Just Big Garbage? (Broadwell)

[MasterBlaster22]

Is Intel 5th Gen Just Big Garbage? (Westmere) I got a free X58 MB and was building a pc for my nephew. I have an X5690 which LOOKS promising in the fact that I got it for $20 and has some robust cores and thread counts for it's time, but it's kinda <Mod Edit> off. Does not really overclock worth a dang. XMP is like finicky and picky, it's so choosy as to exactly how it can be overclocked and it runs HOT as HADES. It's the only time that I ever got an error during boot for a cpu Over-Temp warning.
Overclocking works but is unstable, comes back from a decent performance and will not boot, then have to clear the CMOS all over again and start over. Default RAM speed is too slow and then overclocking to 1800 on the RAM works UNTIL it chooses not to.......


<Moderador Warning: Watch the profanity>
Asus Sabertooth X58
X5690
Triple Channel G.Skill 2133 DDR3 3x4gb
RX580 8GB by MSI
Samsung 870Evo SATA

 

[Lutfij]

Without giving much details about your nephews system(apart from the Xeon processor) I'm assuming you got a generic Chinese motherboard off of Aliexpress or perhaps a platform for taxing it with2023. If so, then that might be the root of your problems.

FYI, Broadwell is;

Broadwell (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

your Xeon is;

Westmere (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Porbably mistaken identity?

You might want to list the specs to your nephews build like so:
CPU:
CPU cooler:
Motherboard:
Ram:
SSD/HDD:
GPU:
PSU:
Chassis:
OS:
Monitor:
include the age of the PSU apart from it's make and model. BIOS version for your motherboard at this moment of time.

 

[kira-faye]

It's a combination of a junk tier motherboard and ancient CPU... Don't like that for you, but can't say I'm overly surprised. Putting one of the hottest running highest draw chips made for the platform in a board with mediocre power delivery is a recipe for, well, exactly what you're dealing with.

At least you're only out $20 and some time.

 

[DSzymborski]

Is Intel 5th Gen Just Big Garbage? (Broadwell) I got a free X58 MB and was building a pc for my nephew. I have an X5690 which LOOKS promising in the fact that I got it for $20 and has some robust cores and thread counts for it's time, but it's kinda <Mod Edit> off. Does not really overclock worth a dang. XMP is like finicky and picky, it's so choosy as to exactly how it can be overclocked and it runs HOT as HADES. It's the only time that I ever got an error during boot for a cpu Over-Temp warning.
Overclocking works but is unstable, comes back from a decent performance and will not boot, then have to clear the CMOS all over again and start over. Default RAM speed is too slow and then overclocking to 1800 on the RAM works UNTIL it chooses not to.......


<Moderador Warning: Watch the profanity>

Yeah, none of this is Broadwell. We're talking about one of the last chips released on a 2008 platform. These overclocked very awkwardly. Generally speaking, if getting an ancient Intel platform to overclock the hell out of, the Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge platforms are the choice. These weren't garbage CPUs; 2010 was a long time ago.

 

[stonecarver]

It's a combination of a junk tier motherboard and ancient CPU..

Interesting I have that exact CPU running right now at 29/30*c on a cheap motherboard that you spoke of.


3 years and not a bleep.

And a friendly heads up if your north bridge heatsink does not have a fan on it GET ONE rigged up one way or another and computer will start performing better. Just trust me on this.

I will say to OP these 1366 CPU heat sinks are very unforgiving if there not tightened in there perfect X pattern and match perfectly every turn as you crisscross tightening them down or that CPU will run hot.

The 5690 your not going to get any OC out of it. If you want to play with over clocking a X5650 is out the door lowered clocked and there is some headroom left.

Don't try or use XPM for memory.

In the right hands these can still be a beast of a computer. As long as you know the limitations/ age and no ----------------------AVX Instructions

 

[thestryker]

Never use XMP on X58 is pretty much rule #1.

If you're trying to overclock that part the only way I'm aware of is running the FSB (assuming the board supports it) into the 2xx mhz ranges then using lower multipliers. Balancing DRAM speed and uncore are key to stability. You should be able to get 4-4.6ghz depending on board, cooling and power quality.

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Never use XMP on X58 is pretty much rule #1.

If you're trying to overclock that part the only way I'm aware of is running the FSB (assuming the board supports it) into the 2xx mhz ranges then using lower multipliers. Balancing DRAM speed and uncore are key to stability. You should be able to get 4-4.6ghz depending on board, cooling and power quality.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is meant by the uncore in "uncore?"

 

[thestryker]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is meant by the uncore in "uncore?"

Basically the clock of the non CPU core components (memory controller etc) and you need to run it at a ratio generally at least 2:1.

If you want more information: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2663

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is meant by the uncore in "uncore?"

I have mostly been experimenting with the multiplier. Max is like 27.
I have been able to get stability by either one of two things:
1. ignore the RAM frequency and allow it to go on "auto" and then set the multiplier to 27 and the "speed: or whatever to about 147. Gives me 1333 on the DRAM and and about 3600Mhz on the CPU
2. I can set the DRAM to 2133 which is the XMP written on the RAM module and then forget about everything else and set it to "auto" where it all ties the DRAM frequency to the CPU frequency and the CPU spikes to about 3650.

I haven't messed with the voltage due to poor cooling
but Now I can.
I changed the cooler to a pretty darn impressive little tower cooler that I got and low and behold, I'm 20-25 C lower temps than I was with the Basket cooler.

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Never use XMP on X58 is pretty much rule #1.

If you're trying to overclock that part the only way I'm aware of is running the FSB (assuming the board supports it) into the 2xx mhz ranges then using lower multipliers. Balancing DRAM speed and uncore are key to stability. You should be able to get 4-4.6ghz depending on board, cooling and power quality.

Oh excuse me for bothering you. The memory bus...... I set it to 133 and have not bothered with it, but being that it is turning into a pretty fun project computer for me, and I don't really risk alot of cost, I'd like to delve further into this.

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Without giving much details about your nephews system(apart from the Xeon processor) I'm assuming you got a generic Chinese motherboard off of Aliexpress or perhaps a platform for taxing it with2023. If so, then that might be the root of your problems.

FYI, Broadwell is;

Broadwell (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

your Xeon is;

Westmere (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Porbably mistaken identity?

You might want to list the specs to your nephews build like so:
CPU:
CPU cooler:
Motherboard:
Ram:
SSD/HDD:
GPU:
PSU:
Chassis:
OS:
Monitor:
include the age of the PSU apart from it's make and model. BIOS version for your motherboard at this moment of time.

I just got it wrong, about the broadwell.

Asus Sabertooth X58
X5690
Triple Channel G.Skill 2133 DDR3 3x4gb
RX580 8GB by MSI
Samsung 870Evo SATA

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Apparently. Alot of this has more to do with the BCLK Frequency than I had bargained for.
It's 133
I've watched a Video where a guy is really cranking this figure up

 

[MasterBlaster22]

I have mostly been experimenting with the multiplier. Max is like 27.
I have been able to get stability by either one of two things:
1. ignore the RAM frequency and allow it to go on "auto" and then set the multiplier to 27 and the "speed: or whatever to about 147. Gives me 1333 on the DRAM and and about 3600Mhz on the CPU
2. I can set the DRAM to 2133 which is the XMP written on the RAM module and then forget about everything else and set it to "auto" where it all ties the DRAM frequency to the CPU frequency and the CPU spikes to about 3650.

I haven't messed with the voltage due to poor cooling
but Now I can.
I changed the cooler to a pretty darn impressive little tower cooler that I got and low and behold, I'm 20-25 C lower temps than I was with the Basket cooler.

Apparently. Alot of this has more to do with the BCLK Frequency than I had bargained for.
It's 133
I've watched a Video where a guy is really cranking this figure up

 

[MasterBlaster22]

I'm sorry it is actually Westmere

 

[MasterBlaster22]

It's a combination of a junk tier motherboard and ancient CPU... Don't like that for you, but can't say I'm overly surprised. Putting one of the hottest running highest draw chips made for the platform in a board with mediocre power delivery is a recipe for, well, exactly what you're dealing with.

At least you're only out $20 and some time.

What is a Junk Tier Motherboard?
As far as I know the Asus Sabertooth X58 was designed and marketed as a top tier Enthusiast System

 

[MasterBlaster22]

Interesting I have that exact CPU running right now at 29/30*c on a cheap motherboard that you spoke of.


3 years and not a bleep.

And a friendly heads up if your north bridge heatsink does not have a fan on it GET ONE rigged up one way or another and computer will start performing better. Just trust me on this.

I will say to OP these 1366 CPU heat sinks are very unforgiving if there not tightened in there perfect X pattern and match perfectly every turn as you crisscross tightening them down or that CPU will run hot.

The 5690 your not going to get any OC out of it. If you want to play with over clocking a X5650 is out the door lowered clocked and there is some headroom left.

Don't try or use XPM for memory.

In the right hands these can still be a beast of a computer. As long as you know the limitations/ age and no ----------------------AVX Instructions

The Asus Sabertooth is decked out in big metal meatsinks but I have noticed it's like a radiator. I'll need something and it will be fun

 

[MasterBlaster22]

It's a combination of a junk tier motherboard and ancient CPU... Don't like that for you, but can't say I'm overly surprised. Putting one of the hottest running highest draw chips made for the platform in a board with mediocre power delivery is a recipe for, well, exactly what you're dealing with.

At least you're only out $20 and some time.

https://images.app.goo.gl/tadVnYXCnbxZcrDy8

 

[MasterBlaster22]

https://images.app.goo.gl/tadVnYXCnbxZcrDy8

Suppost to have some really good power delivery

 

[kira-faye]

https://images.app.goo.gl/tadVnYXCnbxZcrDy8

Don't know why I thought you had one of the no name boards, sorry. Must be getting threads confused.

 

[faalin]

From my experience with my X58 build the Xeons dont OC very well and i could not get my ram stable above 1333Mhz.

Original build

Asus rampage 3 extreme
I7 950 @ 4.6Ghz 24/7, for benchmarks 4.9GHz
Mushkin 6x2GB 1600Mhz cl 6 was able to get just north of 2200Mhz
ITs had many GPUs: 2 480's, 2 580's, 4 670's, 3 780 ti's

Many years down the road i rebuilt the computer replacing the i7 950 with a xeon X5690 (2018-2020). Best i could do was get it to 4.2Ghz but it would never boot unless the ram was at 1333MHz. I later replaced the xeon with a i7 980x, i was able to get it to 4.49GHz with 1866MHz ram. Computer was later replaced in 2020 and now lives in my server rack for storage.


While yes the Xeon's do fit and work in the X58 boards, if you start looking at the CPU support lists for those boards they never state that they actually support them.


If you look hard enough on ebay or just the internet in general you could probably pick up a 980x or 990x on the cheap and bring all sorts of stability back to the system with OC'ing and ram.


But then again for the price of getting a 980x you could buy this LINK and if memory servers me right it should have a standard ATX PSU that can be upgraded so you can use a good GPU in it. It would be lightyears ahead of a X58 build.

 

[MasterBlaster22]

From my experience with my X58 build the Xeons dont OC very well and i could not get my ram stable above 1333Mhz.

Original build

Asus rampage 3 extreme
I7 950 @ 4.6Ghz 24/7, for benchmarks 4.9GHz
Mushkin 6x2GB 1600Mhz cl 6 was able to get just north of 2200Mhz
ITs had many GPUs: 2 480's, 2 580's, 4 670's, 3 780 ti's

Many years down the road i rebuilt the computer replacing the i7 950 with a xeon X5690 (2018-2020). Best i could do was get it to 4.2Ghz but it would never boot unless the ram was at 1333MHz. I later replaced the xeon with a i7 980x, i was able to get it to 4.49GHz with 1866MHz ram. Computer was later replaced in 2020 and now lives in my server rack for storage.


While yes the Xeon's do fit and work in the X58 boards, if you start looking at the CPU support lists for those boards they never state that they actually support them.


If you look hard enough on ebay or just the internet in general you could probably pick up a 980x or 990x on the cheap and bring all sorts of stability back to the system with OC'ing and ram.


But then again for the price of getting a 980x you could buy this LINK and if memory servers me right it should have a standard ATX PSU that can be upgraded so you can use a good GPU in it. It would be lightyears ahead of a X58 build.

I guess I didn't do enough research. I figured that the X5690 was alot better than a i7980x. I did make a pc with a 908x on an Asus Rampage about 2 weeks ago and it was surprisingly "OK."

 

[stonecarver]

What is a Junk Tier Motherboard?
As far as I know the Asus Sabertooth X58 was designed and marketed as a top tier Enthusiast System

You have a really nice motherboard. As far as the link posted on e-bay $203.19
Buying this way what would be the point of moving forward with a 1366 system.

Unless like you found it for $20.00. and by the way great find.




The AKA Junk Tier 1366 new/with some used parts $50.00/$100.00 on e-bay or amazon.

Amazon.com : 1366 motherboard

The one below we have 3 of them not one issue 3+ years

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09D426CKR/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B09D426CKR&pd_rd_w=9zVBu&content-id=amzn1.sym.f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_p=f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_r=89DCTS97493D01MWWZE7&pd_rd_wg=Ce9Zh&pd_rd_r=daaa7683-d936-49dc-bdd3-c0cbf3abb84d&s=pc&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&th=1

But I will be upfront you can play 95% of all game ever made with the exception of the newest AAA
So no Alan Wake
No StarField
There are a few more but you get the point.
There are about 7-10 game that CPU instructions set is the cut off no go moving forward.

Like I said beast of a machine if you know and accept what it can and can not do.

And one more thing know not a good idea to throw a RTX 4090 on the old girl. Keep it real with a RTX 3080 on the far side. Rx 580 is a happy combo. Happy Gaming

 

[MasterBlaster22]

You have a really nice motherboard. As far as the link posted on e-bay $203.19
Buying this way what would be the point of moving forward with a 1366 system.

Unless like you found it for $20.00. and by the way great find.




The AKA Junk Tier 1366 new/with some used parts $50.00/$100.00 on e-bay or amazon.

Amazon.com : 1366 motherboard

The one below we have 3 of them not one issue 3+ years

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09D426CKR/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B09D426CKR&pd_rd_w=9zVBu&content-id=amzn1.sym.f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_p=f734d1a2-0bf9-4a26-ad34-2e1b969a5a75&pf_rd_r=89DCTS97493D01MWWZE7&pd_rd_wg=Ce9Zh&pd_rd_r=daaa7683-d936-49dc-bdd3-c0cbf3abb84d&s=pc&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&th=1

But I will be upfront you can play 95% of all game ever made with the exception of the newest AAA
So no Alan Wake
No StarField
There are a few more but you get the point.
There are about 7-10 game that CPU instructions set is the cut off no go moving forward.

Like I said beast of a machine if you know and accept what it can and can not do.

And one more thing know not a good idea to throw a RTX 4090 on the old girl. Keep it real with a RTX 3080 on the far side. Rx 580 is a happy combo. Happy Gaming

Yeah. I Never thought that this was a "junk" system

Some girl popped up and then popped off about it being bad andI was misinformed and blahhh blahh blahhh

I'm keeping it with an RX580

The BIG deal was 2 fold:


I was trying to get by with a 10 dollar basket cooler called "cryo pc" but I replaced it wit (my space bar on my corsair keyboard sticks) replaced it with a brand new cooler that I nerer tried b efore called AresGame Black 5 for 210 W TDP. That did the trick!
FYI- it w as $20 and it is BETTER than the Thermalrite Assasin 120 $19.00 vs like $22

The other problem was that I was not overclocking using QPI frequency or changing the 133. I was only overclocking where itlinks the RAM speed directly to the CPU speed.


AND someone told me to manually overclock the RAM and forget about SMP


And all of this Worked


So now, I have OC'd the main big CPU power draw whatever it's called to 1.5 but I got Kombustor to Crash so I put it at 1.4 Volts and it is CRASH FREE


we got 35-55 C temps when gaming with SPIKES oftemps to 68 C

6 Cores
4.4 GHZ Stable OC
1.4ish Volts
About 1600 Speed on the RAM OC and it works fine

MSI good edition RX580 OC'd to 1460 at full power and full fan speed


Ran these settings through MSI KOMBUSTOR open GL and Furmark Donut each FOR AN HOUR


so..... things are Looking Up!!

 

[MasterBlaster22]

From my experience with my X58 build the Xeons dont OC very well and i could not get my ram stable above 1333Mhz.

Original build

Asus rampage 3 extreme
I7 950 @ 4.6Ghz 24/7, for benchmarks 4.9GHz
Mushkin 6x2GB 1600Mhz cl 6 was able to get just north of 2200Mhz
ITs had many GPUs: 2 480's, 2 580's, 4 670's, 3 780 ti's

Many years down the road i rebuilt the computer replacing the i7 950 with a xeon X5690 (2018-2020). Best i could do was get it to 4.2Ghz but it would never boot unless the ram was at 1333MHz. I later replaced the xeon with a i7 980x, i was able to get it to 4.49GHz with 1866MHz ram. Computer was later replaced in 2020 and now lives in my server rack for storage.


While yes the Xeon's do fit and work in the X58 boards, if you start looking at the CPU support lists for those boards they never state that they actually support them.


If you look hard enough on ebay or just the internet in general you could probably pick up a 980x or 990x on the cheap and bring all sorts of stability back to the system with OC'ing and ram.


But then again for the price of getting a 980x you could buy this LINK and if memory servers me right it should have a standard ATX PSU that can be upgraded so you can use a good GPU in it. It would be lightyears ahead of a X58 build.

Yeah. I Never thought that this was a "junk" system

Some girl popped up and then popped off about it being bad andI was misinformed and blahhh blahh blahhh

I'm keeping it with an RX580

The BIG deal was 2 fold:


I was trying to get by with a 10 dollar basket cooler called "cryo pc" but I replaced it wit (my space bar on my corsair keyboard sticks) replaced it with a brand new cooler that I nerer tried b efore called AresGame Black 5 for 210 W TDP. That did the trick!
FYI- it w as $20 and it is BETTER than the Thermalrite Assasin 120 $19.00 vs like $22

The other problem was that I was not overclocking using QPI frequency or changing the 133. I was only overclocking where itlinks the RAM speed directly to the CPU speed.


AND someone told me to manually overclock the RAM and forget about SMP


And all of this Worked


So now, I have OC'd the main big CPU power draw whatever it's called to 1.5 but I got Kombustor to Crash so I put it at 1.4 Volts and it is CRASH FREE


we got 35-55 C temps when gaming with SPIKES oftemps to 68 C

6 Cores
4.4 GHZ Stable OC
1.4ish Volts
About 1600 Speed on the RAM OC and it works fine

MSI good edition RX580 OC'd to 1460 at full power and full fan speed


Ran these settings through MSI KOMBUSTOR open GL and Furmark Donut each FOR AN HOUR


so..... things are Looking Up!!

 

[Wuwu]

I got my old Westmere E5640 to 4.46ghz stable and it was kicking ass along side Sandy Bridge chips.
Was on an ASUS P6x58D-E with 16GB 2133mhz RAM and R9 Fury.

Today this system is old hat.