[SOLVED] Is my Ryzen 3800XT faulty, or is it something else? (Crashes under load)

[ARCHITECTS]

Hey all. So recently I built a new PC in anticipation for the RTX 3080 launch. I ended up getting an FE by being in the right place at the right time -- in the middle of the night restock just happened to be on their page. Below is something I posted on Reddit and everyone is blaming the card, but I realize the place I posted is is a bit biased. I'm looking for help here because I'm going nuts. I thought I had it working with Core Performance Boost on Auto, but it seems like the only way I can get my PC to run without crashing is to turn the boosts off and set a fixed ratio. I think it's at 42.25 right now, giving me ~4.2GHz while under load for gaming. I know "Fortnite" the Devil's game was listed in this write-up, but I was trying games that all have RTX. It now crashes even in games without RTX on (I tried Avengers). Anyways, here's what I wrote. Specs included at the bottom:

Summary of Issue
I am at my wit's end here. I just put together this system and finally finished it with the 3080 just this past week after using a 1080. I've been playing around with certain RTX features and had originally thought this was some sort of graphics card issue. Basically if I am playing any game with ray tracing, I have eventually reached a point where it would hard crash my entire PC. I'd even have to reset the time when my PC booted again.
Moving along, I started wondering if it was a heating issue, but looking at the temps in my Task Manager and Core Temp show well below crashing temps. I do know that AMD systems sometimes report the temp incorrectly in there, but I'll have you know my hand test, it feels like it's running cold. I am using an ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II on it and my CPU temps appear to not even be going above 50C on load and voltage. GPU is also hovering around 71C and normal voltage (for what it's listed as (200-350W).

A few weeks ago I was getting extreme frame stutter in some of my games and I ended up turning off PBO (from Auto) in the BIOS and things were fine. This time I was wondering what I could even do in my BIOS menu to try and get things to work correctly. What I ended up finding was that there was another booster in the menu that was ALSO set to Auto. I shut that off and then restarted.

My initial findings were perhaps that the outlet I was using I found to not have a ground terminal that was actually functioning, so I moved it to one that did (using my power strip). After tinkering with my BIOS and whatnot I tried this and things seemed stable. I then was noticing my speeds weren't going above 3.9GHz in Core Temp so I ended up rolling back my settings in the BIOS and letting that second boost setting in the Advanced options (I honestly forget the name, Core Performance Boost?, but it's not PBO -- I shut that off). I ended up restarting and booting up Fortnite and then somewhere after dying, I full on crashed and restarted. This is leading me to believe it's not an outlet problem, but this stupid random clock boost problem. Upon restart, I was able to change the ratio to 42 and run things no problem without crashing with an idle temp below 40C even when playing the game.

I guess my problem here is that now I have to run the clock consistently at that instead of using the boosts to regulate when I need those speeds because if I do, then I am most certainly going to crash. It happens so suddenly I can't tell if it's just one core performing poorly or some arbitrary "crash" threshold it's hitting.
I am a bit of a laymen when it comes to OC and AMD, but since the actual STOCK options on the MOBO and processor are causing crashes, I've had to jump into the BIOS and play around.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I can do here? I'd like to not have to run my processor into the ground by locking it at a speed. It's not overheating or even reaching dangerous temps, but I'd rather have the power when I need it running games on High->Ultra. Control does the same thing if I turn off DLSS. I just think it's really weird that a Graphics problem is being hit by my CPU. I had thought I'd got one of the faulty cards from NVidia, but since I am able to change my clock speeds/boosts and fix the issue, I don't think that's it.


System Configuration
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800XT
PSU: EVGA 850W GA Gold
Display(s) (Make, Model and Type):
Acer Predator G-Sync 1440p 144Hz
Extended Dell G-Sync Monitor (model is irrelevant) 1440p 144Hz
System Memory: CORSAIR VENGEANCELPX16GB (2X 8GB) DDR4 3600(PC4-28800) C141.45V AMD OptimizedMemory
GPU (VBIOS): NVIDIA RTX 3080 Founder's Edition
OS (Version): Windows 10 x64 (Version: 19041.264)
Driver: GeForce Game Ready Driver 456.71
Applications: Fortnite or Control and Direct X 12
Background Apps: Discord, Spotify, Chrome, Core Temp, NetLimiter
Game Software Settings: RTX On (High), DLSS On (Performance)

Steps to Reproduce
Enable RTX and Ultra Settings in either Control or Fortnite
Play for a while
Crash entire PC after a bit.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Are you using a power strip, or is your PSU plugged DIRECTLY into the wall socket?

 

[ARCHITECTS]

Currently using a power strip as I don't trust the wiring in this place. The socket closest to my PC has no ground terminal and the closest one with a ground terminal is about 15-30 feet away which is a living room. Used an extension cable and a power strip.

 

[ARCHITECTS]

Just a followup, I thought my problems were gone again after playing games for a few hours testing around. Was playing Baldur's Gate 3 in DX11 for a few hours and it just crashed randomly. GPU usually peaks at around 81-82C in the Performance Monitor in Task Manager.

I then came to a weird conclusion here regarding my power strip. Now I have this power strip by GE and it's what I've been using recently, but I've had both monitors, my PC, and all my chargers plugged into all of the power strips I was testing at the same time.

Is...is it possible I'm overloading the power strip/surge protector?

 

[Darkbreeze]

This is where I go off the rails, and post my somewhat long butt chewing spiel on power strips. LOL.

Seriously though, I created this text for exactly this reason, and you'd do well to read it. It's not BS, it's a fact. And also, before you do, I will tell you that if you are in a house where there are still ungrounded two prong outlets, there could be ANY number of reasons as to why you are having power issues, but what you REALLY need to do, first, is have an electrician run a new line to that outlet and then install a new, grounded, three prong outlet. I understand that it is something you probably WON'T do, because you are probably not the home owner OR because it IS an expense, but it is what SHOULD be done, and it is what NEEDS to be done, because both power strips and extensions cords are problematic for use with personal computers. I can't express how many problems they can cause and how many instances of them causing problems I've dealt with on this forum over the years. So, on to the spiel.

Years of experience using PC systems and having to diagnose bushels full of issues where a high number of them ended up being faults with the circuitry inside the power strips. Primarily, cheap box store models but also a good number of supposedly premium power strip "surge protectors" that don't actually protect you from anything other than your own fear of what might happen if you actually end up needing a surge protector. A false sense of security.


Most people buy and use power strips because they THINK that the fact it says surge protector means something. Usually, it doesn't. This is one of my favorite quotes on the subject from an electrical engineer and residential/commercial electrical journeyman I know.

Buy a good one, but understand expensive OFTEN does not equal good.


"Monster" brand are the low end junk that are sold for a premium price. Look for what us professionals use. Tripp-lite is one of my go to absolute favorites as they have a price to quality mix that is exceptional. The Belkin brand is junk as far as I am concerned as they focus on how it looks and not how it works. APC is also another one that I will trust , but they mostly cater to data centers and Corporate customers when it comes to their quality units and they DO sell some lower end products that slot into the budget market that are not the same unquestionable quality as what they sell for professional and enterprise use.

G.E is also guilty of selling some of the same types of products as Belkin, Monster, Amazon basics and others that market themselves as quality safety products. G.E does HAVE some very good, high end products, but they are all pretty much sold under the G.E Industrial product lines and I'm unaware of any of their consumer tiered products that are reasonably trustworthy or have superior quality.


Lastly, if you really care about your electronics, get a Whole house surge suppressor installed in your electrical panel. Only a few hundred bucks and it protects everything including the overpriced LED lightbulbs that is all the rage these days.

Units you want to consider will be those sold by APC, Tripp-Lite, Leviton, Eaton, Leviton, General Electric, Polyphaser, Ditek, Siemens, ABB, Square D, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), and Syscom, these are the brands you can trust to have high quality internal electronics if you MUST use a power strip but even so you STILL will want to ask around about specific models OR look to professional reviews as even these big boys occasionally have a product with some glaring flaw that makes it's way into the final product and might best be avoided compared to other available models.

Do not however use a power strip thinking that it offers significant protection, because even the best of them does not, not really. Whole house protection is the only real protection from surges.


Monster and Belkin, and a few others that are commonly used, almost unilaterally use the same protections in their 45 dollar surge protector strips as what you would find in an 8 dollar Amazon or Walmart branded model. And if you ever take one of these, or any cheap box store, dollar store (Even worse than these others usually BUT occasionally about the same) or Harbor Freight power strip apart you are likely to find frayed wires, poorly soldered connections with blobs of solder nearly touching crucial and potential short circuit points, super low quality MOVs, and a ton of other indicators that no real integrity was involved in the design or manufacturer of these units.


Another factor to keep in mind is that even with some of these high quality units, any protection that MIGHT be afforded, is usually the end of that product after one shot. This, directly from the Tripp-Lite manual for the #1 selling surge protection power strip in the world.

All models feature an internal protection that will disconnect the surge-protective component at the end of its useful life but will maintain power to the load now unprotected.

I believe many models from APC and a couple of the others I listed have now incorporated designs that permanently disengage any ability of the device to deliver power once a surge or short of significant enough caliber to incur the protection has occured. That basically means once there has been a surge or short, throw the device away. Even for high end models. Only whole house protection and properly earthed circuits offer any true protection from a serious surge or direct strike from lightning somewhere close enough to affect your segment of the grid.

A surge protector or power strip, of any type, is not going to protect you from poor or faulty wiring circuits in the home. The fix is to resolve the issue of poor wiring, not to expect a cheap power strip to fix the problem of 60-80 year old wiring or poor installation practices.


And whatever you do, don't EVER buy any kind of extension cord, power strip or other electronic device with slip rings.

This Power Strip Is A Fire Starter

A few weeks ago I needed a power strip in my home office. The outlet in question is located behind a filing cabinet so it would need a low profile plug. I jumped on Amazon to buy a surge suppressor…

hackaday.com

 

[ARCHITECTS]

Yeah that uhhh...doesn't sound good. I'm worried I'm hopelessly stuck in this situation now. I did find a Reddit thread from a while ago that someone describes this exact problem and what brand of PSU do they have? EVGA.

There are already so many things wrong with this apartment, I doubt our landlord will green light a rewiring. I've thought about buying one of those backup thingies and plugging into that. This is just such an annoying problem to have. I honestly feel like I have to keep ordering and returning parts at this point. I'd try the 650W PSU in this but I honestly doubt anything will change. I just don't know. I will see how working off of separate strips will do (it's really my only choice at this point) with the monitors and chargers in one and my PC in the other and see how I fare with that.

 

[ARCHITECTS]

UPDATE: Been trying to push it all morning after switching off the monitors and phone/iPad chargers off the same strip. I'm going to end up buying a UPS sometime this week, but I've not been able to make the PC crash...yet. Had about 4 hours of a game running in the background on and off while working with my remote connection open and didn't trip anything.

 

[ARCHITECTS]

Ok so I was able to make it "trip" again on power strip on its own by loading up Fortnite with DLSS set to "quality" rather than "performance." Was merely trying to trip something up. This is what my PC looked like when it crashed. You can't see it well, but the power button on the PC is lit up. As well as the RAM. Notice the graphics card is not "on" or lit up like it normally should be. Also the back fan is off. This is clearly some sort of power issue or something.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Move the computer into a room that DOES have a good power outlet, that is both modern and grounded, with three prongs. Plug the power supply directly into that wall socket and run the system through the same tests to see if the same problem occurs.

Getting a UPS isn't going to solve any of these problems. It's always a good idea, so that you don't lose unsaved data or can continue to run the system for a short while before shutting it down if you are in the middle of something, plus if it is a VERY high quality model it may have SOME additional protection features that may help to mitigate any problems from small surges or brown outs, but it is not going to offer ANY help with poor or faulty wiring, and it is not going to protect you from any significant surge or nearby lightning strike on the grid.

Don't get one thinking it's going to fix your problem, because it isn't. A UPS is to prevent OTHER TYPES of problems, not to fix the types of problems you are having nor can it make up for poor wiring in the structure.

Even a power line conditioner, which a UPS is not, cannot fix poor, incorrect or missing wiring. It can only correct "dirty" power, and dirty power isn't likely your problem.

Looking back through this thread, I see where I asked for the exact PSU model, but unless I've missed it, I don't see where you've provided that. So what is the model of your EVGA unit?

 

[ARCHITECTS]

The EVGA model is the Supernova 850W GA Gold. I actually did some testing with my older PSU which is a Corsair CS650M. I ended up finding that I could not force a PC crash with the CS650M. This is leading me to believe my problem is the PSU. I ordered a new one and it should be here today. It's still going to be an 850W PSU, so we will see if that is a problem as well. If you're asking why I ordered a new PSU if the 650W one works, it's because the PCI-e cable that I'm using is one of those split ones that comes from one port rather than the 2 I was running with the 850W EVGA supply. This may even be the factor, because I think I remember hearing in a JayzTwoCent video that people are having better luck on their 3080 FEs with the single cable with the splitter rather than 2 separate ones.

I will test in a few hours when the new one gets here. I splurged on a Seasonic this time.

 

[Turtle Rig]

Hey Darkbreeze do you think perhaps it is not listed in the QVL that it can still be compatible. I don't know if they cover all the bases ya know. Should he just manually set the RAM settings like loosten the RAM timings and putting in the speed and the voltage and have it work despite not being on QVL. Many times over the years Ive seen QVL lists and my fathers box I don't think even mentioned his G.SKILL Ripjaws but it works; ya works at 2133Mhz on a 9900k system. We got her to 3200Mhz once or twice with software and it worked but now refuses anything above 2133Mhz. So ya it is a little shady. I wonder if he raises his DDR voltage to like 1.38v or 1.40v would make things work. What a pain in the butt this poor guy is going through. sighs 😒🤷‍♀️👶

 

[PC Tailor]

do you think perhaps it is not listed in the QVL that it can still be compatible.

Undoubtedly. The QVL is a basic reference and nothing more. RAM modules are released at a large rate, and there is no feasible way (nor should they be inclined to) for MB manufacturers to test every single module that comes out and then update their master lists. The mass majority of modules NOT on a QVL are still compatible, it's just the QVL is the "to be 100% and ensure you get proper MB manufacturer support" list.

If they have it, the best place to often check is the RAM manufacturers support list.

 

[wi5pa]

Just wanted to add that all windows 10 updates since may 2020 has been full of bugs,
causing bsod issues, game crashes, and Microsoft have fixed some things and break other things.
Causing alot of peoples systems to have these issues.
Search this forum for BSOD and you will find alot of other posts similar to yours.
It is most likely that your hardware is not the problem.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The EVGA model is the Supernova 850W GA Gold. I actually did some testing with my older PSU which is a Corsair CS650M. I ended up finding that I could not force a PC crash with the CS650M. This is leading me to believe my problem is the PSU. I ordered a new one and it should be here today. It's still going to be an 850W PSU, so we will see if that is a problem as well. If you're asking why I ordered a new PSU if the 650W one works, it's because the PCI-e cable that I'm using is one of those split ones that comes from one port rather than the 2 I was running with the 850W EVGA supply. This may even be the factor, because I think I remember hearing in a JayzTwoCent video that people are having better luck on their 3080 FEs with the single cable with the splitter rather than 2 separate ones.

I will test in a few hours when the new one gets here. I splurged on a Seasonic this time.

The CS650 isn't a great PSU anyhow, so no, I wouldn't ask why you are getting something different. In fact, if it were asked, I'd say that getting a refund if possible for the GA rather than a replacement, might be the MUCH better idea because EVGA has not seen fit to send any review samples of the GA, that we've seen so far, to any of the review sites, and that usually means that they know if a reviewer takes a look at it they are going to rip them a new bung hole based on the results of testing and build quality. If a company knows a unit is pretty good or great, they make sure that reviewers get a sample quickly and reviewers generally get to them fairly quickly if it is a model expected to be popular.

You might consider that your PSU could be your entire problem. EVGA has traditionally sold some extremely excellent power supplies, built mostly by Super Flower, but they've also sold some real turds as well.

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[ARCHITECTS]

The CS650 isn't a great PSU anyhow, so no, I wouldn't ask why you are getting something different. In fact, if it were asked, I'd say that getting a refund if possible for the GA rather than a replacement, might be the MUCH better idea because EVGA has not seen fit to send any review samples of the GA, that we've seen so far, to any of the review sites, and that usually means that they know if a reviewer takes a look at it they are going to rip them a new bung hole based on the results of testing and build quality. If a company knows a unit is pretty good or great, they make sure that reviewers get a sample quickly and reviewers generally get to them fairly quickly if it is a model expected to be popular.

You might consider that your PSU could be your entire problem. EVGA has traditionally sold some extremely excellent power supplies, built mostly by Super Flower, but they've also sold some real turds as well.

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

I'll do you one better. My PSU was my whole problem. I actually requested a return to Amazon on the GA. I ended up getting the Seasonic PRIME TX-850 Platinum. I know it's like 100$ more but I'd like something a bit more that I could count on. I've pushed it a lot and it's doing fine. I even get minimal coil whine now! I'm keeping the box in case things start looking down for me again, but this looks like it could be it. Thanks everyone for all the help! I'll be sure to update this if I experience problems again.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, once you answered the question (Which I DID ask early on, but you went around somehow) regarding the model of your unit, I had a feeling it was going to be a lot more likely to be the cause. This makes the third GA unit in as many months that I've seen causing some kind of problem with freezing or restarts, etc. Much like the rest of their extremely "budget" units.

 

[tsibiski]

Have you run Cinebench at all in this process? If you download and run Cinebench R20, I'd be curious what you get. If it crashes there, it is almost definitely related to the CPU or RAM.

If it doesn't... that complicates things.

RTX 3080's have been very unstable after launch in certain situations. They crash constantly due to issues with the capacitors used. Or at least, they crashed a lot before recent drivers capped and throttled their upper speeds to prevent them from exceeding certain thresholds; making them slightly less powerful, but much more stable. The only RTX 3080 model that does not have this problem is the TUF Gaming model, as it uses 6 of 6 high quality, expensive capacitors. The FE uses 2 of 6 of these high quality ones, and 4 cheaper ones. And most of the other models out there have 1 or 0 of the high quality capacitors.

As a result, the higher your frequency is overclocked to on these cards, the more interference is received in the GPU die which can cause it to trip up and crash. Google "3080 capacitor issues" for more details on that.

So while these 3080 cards are monsters, some of the models cannot be pushes as far as others without instability issues.

Obviously, as mentioned before, your RAM not being on the QVL is a very low hanging fruit and the first logical thing to call out. But I'd be really interested in hearing what happened when you ran Cinebench with the same settings that games crash on.

 

[ARCHITECTS]

Yeah, once you answered the question (Which I DID ask early on, but you went around somehow) regarding the model of your unit, I had a feeling it was going to be a lot more likely to be the cause. This makes the third GA unit in as many months that I've seen causing some kind of problem with freezing or restarts, etc. Much like the rest of their extremely "budget" units.

I think I listed it in the original post, I don't remember

 

[Darkbreeze]

You're right, you did. Not sure how I missed that. All I saw, three times, what EVGA 850w, my eyes went right over the GA identifier.

 

[TO0OT]

yo !
have you sloved the issue?