Is Parhelia better than Ge-force 4?

jammydodger

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I plan to upgrade my graphics card soon and had origionally planned to get a Ge-Force 4 Ti4600 but after finding out about the new matrox parhelia I'm not so sure. I was just wondering which card would be better? I was a bit dissapointed with the image quality of my current Ge-Force 2 GTS and the matrox card is supposed to have far better image quality than anything else on the market. Which card would be fastest? Does anyone have any idea when the card will be released here in the UK and at what price? I was interested in the surround gaming function of the parhelia and I could probably get 2 old 15inch moitors to go on either side of my current 19 inch one, but would monitors of differnt sizes make the effect very odd?

Any input you can give would b appreciated

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chuck232

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The Parhelia won't be out til this summer and probably won't really ship until this fall. By then NV30/R300/P10 will all be out. The GF4s supposedly have great 2D image quality now and I know that Matroz has great 2D performing cards, but I'm sure you wouldn't be dissapointed in the GF4s. As for the surround gaming, it'll most liekly work, but the ting is you'll probably not be able to get very good resolutions of refresh rates out of your 15 inchers and since you can only run it at the highest resolution of the worst monitor, it'll probably not be as good.

You should wait till this summer/fall and see what happens. Also the both the P10 and Parhelia will be a bit more expensive than the NV30 or R300. They say at least $500USD. If they wanted to enter the mainstream market they'll probably make a version with 256bit memory and cut out some of the features. Right now looking at the features, the Parhelia looks probably ~25% faster to me, but buy then there'll be more competition.

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jammydodger

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Cheers for the info, I really dont want to have to wait that long for the card so I will probably just go for a ge-force 4 I had just heard somewhere that the parhelia was to be released in June. Just as long as the ge-force4 will be able to run most games for the next 3years I will b happy.

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cakecake

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Not 3 years... I doubt that. The average lifespan of mid-high end graphics cards is 1 and a half years running all games at the highest detail settings, and after that you will only get playable framerates from new games if you reduce detail settings. But even that's not too true right now. Just look at games like Morrowind. Even on an athlon 2100 and GF4 ti4600 and CL2 333 RAM it averages 20-40fps.

You might want to wait for the parhelia or P10 or other next-gen cards from nvidia and ati, seriously. If you are planning on having a card that lasts 3 years, then wait, because within the next 3 years the newest Unreal engine and the next game engine from john carmack will be released. Since a lot of games are going to be based on these engines, a more logical plan would be to get a mid-end/cheap card right now to sustain you for a year and a half and then when a year and a half has passed, doing the same thing and buying a mid-end/cheap card that's current for that time. Or you wait for the parhelia, p10, etc. and buy those as soon as they come out, and they might last you 2-2.5 years. Otherwise you will be disappointed that you (a) spent so much money on a gfx card that didn't return it's cost/performance investment very well, and (b) spend at least 6 months without a card that can run doom 3 at playable framerates without reducing graphics settings big time (since you'll be waiting 3 years, am I correct?).
 

eden

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If Carmack says right, the R300 will run Doom III at absolute max detail, smoothly. I hope so, since it is coming out soon this year, and thus I predict by December 2003, Doom III's expected release date, everyone will be armed to play this killer.

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AMD_Man

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If Carmack says right, the R300 will run Doom III at absolute max detail, smoothly. I hope so, since it is coming out soon this year, and thus I predict by December 2003, Doom III's expected release date, everyone will be armed to play this killer.
We've all been hearing how amazing the next generation cards (Parhelia, NV30, R300) are going to be
compared to current cards, but what I'm really interested in is side-by-side comparisons of all three next-generation cards. Also, it's about time they stop benchmarking with Quake III. No matter what they say, we don't need 500fps to play Quake III smoothly at maximum settings.

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chuck232

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I'm tired of people saying that UT2003, Unreal2, and DoomIII are gonna need friggin supercomputers with GFXX or R1000000000 in them to run well!!! That's just not the case. Think about it. When these games are released they are meant to make money and nothing more. You think that they're gonna make a game only for a niche market? I think not. They'll try to make it as appealing as possible, but not sacrafice too much of the market for that. For DoomIII I predict that when it comes out (early 2003 right), the Ti4600 should be able to run it at ~60FPS at 1024x768x32.

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cakecake

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That's an interesting point, because you're right, they can't really afford to even make things that no one can run. It just won't reach a good enough audience. However, what I'm thinking is that people will be using the engine itself. The game is irrelevant. I had Quake 2 and I hardly played it once Half-Life came out. I have Quake 3 and I don't play it since RTCW is out. The engine itself is going to be heavily modified and probably top-notch game development houses like Raven Software will modify up to 80% of the engine for themselves. It's like how Medal of Honor Allied Assault is based on the Quake 3 engine, but it only gets 30fps while Quake 3 gets 200 fps. Of course Doom 3 will be accessible. What I'm referring to is the prospect of games that will be released using heavily modified versions of the engine. He says he's keeping his card for a good 2-3 years, so I'm giving advice for that. I bet just 8 months after Unreal 2 is released there will be a game based on that engine, maybe even a critically acclaimed game that he won't be able to run at very high graphics settings because he didn't have the right buying strategy and because the engine was so heavily modified.

I also want to note "playable framerates". The Rage 128 chipset, when it was first released, was touted by ATi as being able to run Quake 3, etc. etc. etc. ATi even released a couple generations of "quake 3 enhanced drivers" specifically just for running quake 3. And yes it was playable. But only barely. The problem was that it averaged 35fps but occasionally dipped down to 15fps, and believe me it wasn't very much fun. I played many hours of quake 3 on my Rage 128 and in high-poly scenes things slowed down to a crawl. Just be careful when John Carmack promises things to run smoothly, and remember that there's still 1.5 years until it's released. I'd be cautious about any promises of the future, especially promises made for things that are more than a year away. Finally, last but not nearly the least, no one buys an FPS game nowadays and expects to play the stock game. User-made mods are even more taxing on the computer than any heavily modified engine itself. Half-Life ran fine on my Pentium 166 with a voodoo 2 but now mods like Counter-strike require a 1Ghz processor to be relatively smooth, and even then 1Ghz sometimes isn't enough. I played counter-strike long enough on my Pentium II 350Mhz to know that it's equally frustrating not being able to play mods as it is not being able to play the stock games.

Finally it wasn't entirely about whether or not things would be able to run at all, but it was about cost/performance ratio too. If you want the most bang for your buck (especially for a possible 2.5-3 year period which he is suggesting) it doesn't make sense right now to run out and buy a high end GF4 card. It makes more sense to either buy a mid/high end card like the retail Radeon 128LE or the GF4 ti 4200 and then buy another card a year and a half or two years from now, or to wait for the next generation and buy the top of the line card from that line of cards. If he only cared about making sure things ran, he would go with the fastest possible thing that's out there right now, but his asking for something that might last as long as 3 years was an indication to me that he cared about cost over time as much as performance.
 

jammydodger

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Ok so would I be better off waiting till the autumn and getting the new matrox card then? Will that last me at least 2years or is that still asking too much? Does anyone know where I could find out about the P10? Cause i know absolutly nothing about this card. Where have Nvidia planned for the next generation of Ge-Force to come out? Will that be faster then the parhelia? ...so many questions any help appreciated.

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chuck232

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I agree that he should buy a card this fall, all I was talking about was that top-end video cards should be able to run DoomIII reasonably well. I agree with you that this fall should be the time to look and see what happens, since this probduct cycle is starting to wind down and a new one is starting up.

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eden

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There is a link that says what Carmack expressed. At first he expected Radeons at minimum, but now he tells us it's a 7500 absolute. He admitted, that he is not intended on staying in the present, he wants to advance things. He says he expects that it will be slow, but that it's for letting the future licensees to use the engine and push it even forward, thus you get a powerful gaming experience. Anyway it's somewhere on this forum, check it out to see.
Besides, this is how Doom was, it barely could run, but they all pushed their comps forward for it.


EDIT: Actually sorry, the link is on the game website <A HREF="http://www.actiontrip.com" target="_new">http://www.actiontrip.com</A>. Try this <A HREF="http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33453&cid=3619372" target="_new">http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33453&cid=3619372</A>
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Meow<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/02/02 09:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

chuck232

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Exactly, so a R8500 should be fine and a Ti4600 should run it quite all right. I'm just saying that these cards that you get now should be okay for it, but you'll be able to get even better performance if you wait till this fall for a video card upgrade.

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williamc

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If you live near a CompUSA do this. If you don't then skip this post.


Go to CompUSA, buy a GF4 TI 4600 and a 2 year instant replacement warranty. When the parahelia comes out go back to compusa, they'll give you a credit of the amount you paid including tax but not the warranty for the GF4 and you replace it with a Parahelia. Buy a new warranty for the parahelia and do the same thing again when something else better comes out. If you doubt what i'm saying is 100% legal and good to do, go ask your compusa sales manager. Do this all the time...

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chuck232

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Would you have to pay the difference or something? I mean if I got a GF2MX and got the warranty, I can't just go replace it with a GF4Ti4600 could I? Yes this would save you some money, but why wouldn't he just go straight to the Parhelia if he thinks that that's the way to go?

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