Question Is this a tough choice - - - Blu-rays or external HDDs ?

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MWink64

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You continue to repeat the same flimsy arguments to justify the decision I suspect you came to before you even started this thread. As you've pointed out, we're talking about cold storage scenarios, yet you use arguments that aren't especially applicable. A power surge, shipping damage, a bad PSU, and incompetent technicians aren't likely to impact a drive that's stored disconnected in your closet. Defects and bad designs are absolutely a possibility, that's why I suggested multiple different drives. Defects and bad design are also applicable to optical media.

Everything will fail at some point. That's why we make backups. You talk about the benefits of scattering data over multiple disks. I fully agree! It's just that your scenario scatters ONE set of data over ~150 mostly identical discs. My similarly priced suggestion scatters THREE complete sets of data over three different drives. My scenario requires FOUR simultaneous failures (1 original + 3 backups) for any data loss to occur. Yours only requires two.

You continue to incorrectly claim that data recovery from a faulty hard drive is almost impossible. This is simply untrue. I'm not even an expert and I've recovered data from numerous failing hard drives (even an SD card), some of which other technicians (also not data recovery experts) had written off as unsalvageable. From a data recovery perspective, hard drives are often viewed more favorably than SSDs (and other flash-based media) because they are less likely to fail as abruptly. It's not unusual to get some warning before serious data loss occurs. That's the main point of SMART (despite its generally terrible implementation).


Reading this thread is becoming tedious.

BluRay, HDD, cloud, magical space aliens....
There is no One True Way.

But....kudos to ALL of you who actually practice and test some sort of data backup.

Yes, this thread is quite tedious. But, I agree, any backup is better than none. It would take a small forest's worth of newspapers for all the people I need to whack on the nose for not backing up. It's even more frustrating when I set everything up and tell them "just plug this in and press the big green button once a month."

To add some levity...

Magical space aliens are a good idea! Everyone talks about off-site backups. Why not consider storing them off-world?

I tried cloud backups but all my data kept evaporating.
 

Misgar

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I have multiple copies of 44,000 photos stored on various media, including hard disk, LTO4 tape, external USB drives, RAID-Z2 servers, even a few BD-R.

Being digital, all of these files could vanish in the twinkling of an eye. I certainly wouldn't expect to retrieve them in 40 years time if I'm still alive, unless I'd backed up to new media every few years.

What a good thing I still have the original Kodachrome slides (transparencies) dating back to 1979. Now all I have to worry about is mould (mold), fire or water damage.
 

Perene

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Oct 12, 2014
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You continue to repeat the same flimsy arguments
What do you think of this guy's opinion?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbxaPc2Xf5M


Interesting that you say CDs and DVDs are trash and proven not to last. I just came across This. It shows certain CD-Rs as having the greatest longevity. I'm actually a bit surprised by the results.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOCwwGM7kYw


5:30 - "Today, CDs are no longer considered to be reliable as long-term storage media"
 
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MWink64

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The first video is approximately 12 minutes of him calling people names. There's very little actual info. His claim of hard drives experiencing magnetic depolarization in 5-8 years is simply false. I recently went through a number of hard drives that have been sitting for ~10+ years. There were no read issues. His claim that SSDs also experience magnetic depolarization is flat out laughable. He said optical drives never fail, which is also untrue. I've seen tons of dead optical drives. I do agree that DVD drives will be easy to find for a very long time. However, Blu-Ray drives are another story completely, as they never saw widespread adoption. Ironically, he claims that Blu-Rays are inferior to DVDs. As usual, I see no citation of any actual studies.

The article is a lot better than the video. I agree with quite a bit of it. However, I do not agree that hard drives are certain to lose their data in 5-8 years and that optical disks cannot degrade. Many people cite manufacturer claims/guarantees that optical media won't degrade for a century but we don't really know that to be the case. Such puffery is quite common in marketing.

The second video is good and only serves to bolster my point. CDs were once thought to last forever. Now we know that the don't. There's no reason the same won't be true for Blu-Rays, even M-Disc.

I think both support my point that redundancy is better than hoping that a particular media will last forever.
 

Misgar

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This morning I pulled down my Materials Science textbooks from my days a Uni, but unfortunately they pre-date the invention of current optical disk drives.

Unfortunately, I don't regard Youtube videos created by lay persons seeking popularity and large audiences as constituting scientific evidence, let alone "proof" of any sort.

I have far greater confidence in papers published in scientific journals such as the 'American Journal of Physics'. Even then, different research bodies can have opposing opinions about the same subject.

I then checked online and found a type of optical disc which I'd probably trust with my data for 50 to 100 years.

The Archival Disc storage medium is a joint venture by Sony and Panasonic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archival_Disc

Looking at the Sony web page, they have a simplistic bar graph showing claimed life expectancy of archived files as 5 years for hard disk, 30 years for tape (which I use) and 100 years for Archival Disc.
https://pro.sony/en_GB/technology/optical-disc-archive
https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/optical-disc/product-range

The first generation of Archival Discs come in capacities from 300GB to 1.5TB. Generation 2 when it appears will be 3.3TB per disc. Generation 3 should be 5.5TB.
https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/optical-disc-archive-cartridges

The disc drives and media probably cost the same as an LTO7 or LTO8 tape system, but the claimed life time is more than three times longer than tape.

ODS-D380U_and_ODC_550R_TMV.png


I'd have far more confidence in the longevity of an Archival Disc in its own protective plastic shroud, than a bare BD-R which might get scratched when in use.

With Archival Discs is you can fit up to 1.5TB on to a Generation 1 disc. My old fashioned LTO4 tapes have a claimed capacity of 1.6TB with 2:1 compression, but I never write more than 750GB in native format.

Whether or not Sony's Archival Disc drives go the same way as my old Betamax recorders, remains to be seen. Standards come and go as technology advances.

On a final note, I spotted this Panasonic 50 Years Archival Grade Premium Bluray Disc BD-R DL 50GB on eBay. A snip at only $53.72 each. I'd hope they're worth the premium, when compared with cheaper "100 year" BD-R.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16428455...7779&msclkid=efa4dbc895561d336bccbf6a36ff33ee