Question Is trying to read a faulty SSD going to cause any problems ?

Feb 13, 2023
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It's a Samsung PM981 M.2 NVMe 1TB SSD. It's got some problem with it, but I don't know more than that. I got it into a USB rack now, but is it a good idea to try and access it several times, can that damage it further? Or as long as I don't try to write to it, only read from it, it won't degrade further? I'm only familiar with HDD's, not SSD's, I know they are a different animal but I don't know if it's the same as with a dying HDD.

Some more info: I do get errors connecting it to the USB on the PC. It doesn't show up as a proper partition and Event manager showed an IO error for logical block address 0x0 ("The IO operation at logical block address 0x0 for Disk 2 (PDO name: \Device\00000065) failed due to a hardware error."). Disk manager did want to initialise it, I canceled on that, because I'd like the data saved off it if I can. I can also try using Linux, which is the better option?
 
Feb 13, 2023
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Can you retrieve a SMART report with a tool such as CrystalDiskInfo?

Thank you, I will try this.

But can you answer my question about whether me attempting to power on and read the SSD, like, if I were to try and raw read the whole disk, won't damage it more? Like with an HDD? Is it a risk that I should be paying attention to and manage in some way? If I tried to read data off it like this, would I have to expect that maybe halfway through it all it all dies and even professional data recovery can't save the data from it?

Also I read that if the controller has a problem then the data can be saved by putting the memory part of the SSD into another, intact SSD of the exact same model. Is this always doable?
 
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If the media is read only, it should in theory be relatively safe. The thing about all storage devices is that Windows tend to write last-access-time on every file and folder, only by merely looking at it. This generates writes to the media, which you don't want for a possible defective device. It's not much data in magnitude of bytes sendt, but the risk are there.

Cloning the storage device into a disk image should be a safer option in general. Do you have any amounts of valuable data saved on that device?
 
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Thank you, I will try this.

But can you answer my question about whether me attempting to power on and read the SSD, like, if I were to try and raw read the whole disk, won't damage it more? Like with an HDD? Is it a risk that I should be paying attention to and manage in some way? If I tried to read data off it like this, would I have to expect that maybe halfway through it all it all dies and even professional data recovery can't save the data from it?

Also I read that if the controller has a problem then the data can be saved by putting the memory part of the SSD into another, intact SSD of the exact same model. Is this always doable?
SMART exists within a small number of sectors in the firmware area.

In some SSDs it is possible to transplant the NANDs to a donor PCB, but in many cases there is a unique encryption key which prevents you from doing this.

That said, your SSD is probably affected by bad NAND, in which case a transplant would only be transferring the problem to the donor. I think that in your case the firmware has "panicked".

AFAICT, your SSD is not yet supported by commercial tools:

https://blog.acelab.eu.com/pc-3000-ssd-list-of-supported-ssd-drives-regularly-updated.html

ISTR that the developers were saying that these new Samsung SSDs are a hard nut to crack due to encryption and other firmware locks.
 
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Feb 13, 2023
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If the media is read only, it should in theory be relatively safe. The thing about all storage devices is that Windows tend to write last-access-time on every file and folder, only by merely looking at it. This generates writes to the media, which you don't want for a possible defective device. It's not much data in magnitude of bytes sendt, but the risk are there.

Cloning the storage device into a disk image should be a safer option in general. Do you have any amounts of valuable data saved on that device?

Thanks. I can't tell if it's set to read only. I can only read the model (it shows as EVO 970 because this is the OEM version of EVO 970). The filesystem is not showing, Windows wanted to initialise it so it doesn't see any MBR on it. Yes I would like to save data off it... So you are saying that if I attempt to read it and clone an image like that, this won't be a problem if it's just being read and never written? It's unlike with a HDD where it being read can cause further problems? It can never cause a problem?
 
Feb 13, 2023
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SMART exists within a small number of sectors in the firmware area.

In some SSDs it is possible to transplant the NANDs to a donor PCB, but in many cases there is a unique encryption key which prevents you from doing this.

That said, your SSD is probably affected by bad NAND, in which case a transplant would only be transferring the problem to the donor. I think that in your case the firmware has "panicked".

AFAICT, your SSD is not yet supported by commercial tools:

https://blog.acelab.eu.com/pc-3000-ssd-list-of-supported-ssd-drives-regularly-updated.html

ISTR that the developers were saying that these new Samsung SSDs are a hard nut to crack due to encryption and other firmware locks.

Yes I was told this model has some encryption for it. I'm not sure if this PC-3000 is the only commercial tool, I saw that it doesn't support many new models, yet I've seen that for example Western Digital teamed up with a data recovery company so that company supports all WD models according to their claim. (Which is why I've bought a WD to replace this one lol.) I'm not sure if Samsung has ever done the same, if anyone knows anything about that, do let me know. :) because in that case I'd be happy talk to that data recovery company.

Also CrystalDiskInfo does not even list the SSD so I have no idea about its SMART data. Windows does see the disk but wants to initialise it and I refused to risk that, of course.
 
PC3000 is the premiere tool in the data recovery business. All WD's "partners" would be using it. If PC3000 doesn't support your model, then it is unlikely that any other tool will.

BTW, when WD refers to "partners", they aren't partners in any real sense. There is no transfer of any consequential inside information, at least nothing that would be of any use in data recovery. These "partnerships" are just WD's way of passing the responsibility of data recovery on to someone else. Seagate is the only storage company that has a data recovery service. In fact, I believe Seagate can even recover WD's drives. Essentially what happens in data recovery is that companies like WD and Samsung will refer you to third parties, and these third parties use tools produced by Russian and Chinese hackers (aka "researchers").

As for CrystalDiskInfo, if it cannot retrieve the SMART info, then the SSD's data would probably be inaccessible as well.
 
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USAFRet

Titan
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It's a Samsung PM981 M.2 NVMe 1TB SSD. It's got some problem with it, but I don't know more than that. I got it into a USB rack now, but is it a good idea to try and access it several times, can that damage it further? Or as long as I don't try to write to it, only read from it, it won't degrade further? I'm only familiar with HDD's, not SSD's, I know they are a different animal but I don't know if it's the same as with a dying HDD.

Some more info: I do get errors connecting it to the USB on the PC. It doesn't show up as a proper partition and Event manager showed an IO error for logical block address 0x0 ("The IO operation at logical block address 0x0 for Disk 2 (PDO name: \Device\00000065) failed due to a hardware error."). Disk manager did want to initialise it, I canceled on that, because I'd like the data saved off it if I can. I can also try using Linux, which is the better option?
For future reference, this would all be but a speedbump with a proper data backup.

Drives die.
Eventually, all of them.

The data on them is the critical part.
 
Feb 13, 2023
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PC3000 is the premiere tool in the data recovery business. All WD's "partners" would be using it. If PC3000 doesn't support your model, then it is unlikely that any other tool will.

BTW, when WD refers to "partners", they aren't partners in any real sense. There is no transfer of any consequential inside information, at least nothing that would be of any use in data recovery. These "partnerships" are just WD's way of passing the responsibility of data recovery on to someone else. Seagate is the only storage company that has a data recovery service. In fact, I believe Seagate can even recover WD's drives. Essentially what happens in data recovery is that companies like WD and Samsung will refer you to third parties, and these third parties use tools produced by Russian and Chinese hackers (aka "researchers").

I don't know, checking Seagate's vs WD's site, WD's data recovery page lists more supported products than Seagate's. Including the model I've bought. PC-3000 does not list it as supported on their page. I do not know if reputable companies that have access to inside information would need the services of Russian hackers. Why would they if they already have their own inside information?

Perhaps of course WD is just <Mod Edit> and they do not have tools to recover data from all these models beyond what any advanced user could do on their own, is that what you are saying? I'm really interested, being affected by this issue myself.

As for CrystalDiskInfo, if it cannot retrieve the SMART info, then the SSD's data would probably be inaccessible as well.

Thanks. If I still would like to try and access it for a "raw" imaging do you or anyone else have any recommendation for software?
 
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Feb 13, 2023
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For future reference, this would all be but a speedbump with a proper data backup.

Drives die.
Eventually, all of them.

The data on them is the critical part.

I am not the right audience for this advice. My question is: Do you know if trying to read it can cause further damage like with an HDD?
 
Do you mean this page?

https://www.westerndigital.com/company/programs/data-recovery

Ask Ontrack if they can recover data from a helium model with bad heads. (An Ontrack data recovery employee tells me that they can't.) In fact, I don't believe that Ontrack, or any other "partner", is provided with any inside technical information.

I've been watching the professional data recovery forums since 2009. Believe me, the sort of information that goes into PC3000 is either reverse engineered or stolen. It involves Vendor Specific Commands (VSCs). These are undocumented ATA commands which are specific to each storage manufacturer. These commands enable the tools to access the secret, hidden, firmware area (on the platters in HDDs). No storage manufacturer provides this kind of info to their "partners". In fact, if WD really cared about their users, they would have their own internal data recovery service.

Let's look at Ontrack's web site:

https://www.ontrack.com/en-us/data-recovery/software

If your hard drive has crashed, been infected by a virus, or you’ve accidentally deleted files such as precious photos, videos or important documents, Ontrack EasyRecovery can recover your files and get you back up and running quickly.

This claim is not only rubbish, but it's dangerous rubbish.

A "crashed" hard drive is one where the heads have contacted the platters, resulting in head and/or media damage. One should NEVER power up such a drive. Certainly, one should never thrash it to death with a logical recovery tool.

And why would Ontrack sell "EasyRecovery" rather than the tool which they actually use? There are plenty of professional tools which actually cost less. Moreover, at one time Ontrack was rebadging Stellar, which is a second tier tool.

See how EasyRecovery stacks up against R-Studio which is probably the most commonly used pro tool:

https://www.r-studio.com/DataRecoverySoftware-Review/

As you can see, "Ontrack's" tool is second rate.
 
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I am not the right audience for this advice. My question is: Do you know if trying to read it can cause further damage like with an HDD?
This isn't a question where you can or should get a definitive yes/no answer. Yes you can damage it further, but probably not if only reading. No one can tell - it's like asking the current position of an electron.

For what I can tell from what you write here, if the content is that important to you as it seems, I suggest you contact a company that does data recovery. That is morally the option with best chance for successfull data recovery.
 
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Feb 13, 2023
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This isn't a question where you can or should get a definitive yes/no answer. Yes you can damage it further, but probably not if only reading. No one can tell - it's like asking the current position of an electron.

For what I can tell from what you write here, if the content is that important to you as it seems, I suggest you contact a company that does data recovery. That is morally the option with best chance for successfull data recovery.

OK, thank you for your input. I was interested in what's the consensus on this topic, but apparently you are all saying it's not likely, as it is different from how a HDD works.
 

USAFRet

Titan
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OK, thank you for your input. I was interested in what's the consensus on this topic, but apparently you are all saying it's not likely, as it is different from how a HDD works.
The question being...."Will it make it worse if I try to read from this SSD?"

Probably not.

But is the underlying question..."Is the data accessible, to copy or clone to some other device?"

As mentioned above, the data is the critical thing.
The physical device is mostly irrelevant.

If it is still under warranty, free replace.
If it is NOT still under warranty...well, its had a good life.

If any of my current drives were to die right now, my thought would be, at most "Oh bother, I have to replace it."

/end Soapbox
 
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Yes.

Do you think that's <Mod Edit>? I'm genuinely interested. (As far as supported models)


Ask Ontrack if they can recover data from a helium model with bad heads. (An Ontrack data recovery employee tells me that they can't.) In fact, I don't believe that Ontrack, or any other "partner", is provided with any inside technical information.

"Helium" models are not listed on that page as far as I could see... But I don't know much about that technology.


I've been watching the professional data recovery forums since 2009. Believe me, the sort of information that goes into PC3000 is either reverse engineered or stolen. It involves Vendor Specific Commands (VSCs). These are undocumented ATA commands which are specific to each storage manufacturer. These commands enable the tools to access the secret, hidden, firmware area (on the platters in HDDs).

Yeah I'm sure PC-3000 does that kind of stuff. I did reverse engineering myself a long time ago, though not on storage devices. It was too long ago and I am no longer in IT, so I know far too little about SSDs as it is now. :(


No storage manufacturer provides this kind of info to their "partners". In fact, if WD really cared about their users, they would have their own internal data recovery service.

Do you mind providing me a source for this claim regarding storage manufacturers?


Let's look at Ontrack's web site:

https://www.ontrack.com/en-us/data-recovery/software

"If your hard drive has crashed, been infected by a virus, or you’ve accidentally deleted files such as precious photos, videos or important documents, Ontrack EasyRecovery can recover your files and get you back up and running quickly."

This claim is not only rubbish, but it's dangerous rubbish.

A "crashed" hard drive is one where the heads have contacted the platters, resulting in head and/or media damage. One should NEVER power up such a drive. Certainly, one should never thrash it to death with a logical recovery tool.

Yeah, that is the kind of thing I asked about with opening my thread, but so this isn't a high risk with SSDs.

As far as "crashed", I mean that's a casual word usage. The (another) software tool I used for a, well, crashed HDD myself has also been advertised for "crashed" HDDs as far as I can see. It worked well for me. I opened my thread because I don't know what the limits and risks are with trying to recover data from SSDs like I know with HDDs.

I am happy to hear about "advanced", detailed information on that, or good links/resources about it.


And why would Ontrack sell "EasyRecovery" rather than the tool which they actually use? There are plenty of professional tools which actually cost less. Moreover, at one time Ontrack was rebadging Stellar, which is a second tier tool.

I don't really know why they would sell this one. But I would assume they use more than one tool for data recovery as they don't just do logical data recovery. According to their site's claims.


See how EasyRecovery stacks up against R-Studio which is probably the most commonly used pro tool:

https://www.r-studio.com/DataRecoverySoftware-Review/

As you can see, "Ontrack's" tool is second rate.

That review does not even list the softwares I used with success before (HDD, not SSD though). :)
 
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If storage manufacturers released VSC info to their "partners", then their partners would not be waiting for updates for their PC3000 tool from Ace laboratory. Moreover, they would be proclaiming that they have solutions for cases which are otherwise regarded as unsupported. In fact, the truth is that they are no better than regular data recovery shops. The only advantage that they have is that they can supply a warranty replacement drive direct from the storage manufacturer. That's really the only point of difference.

Actually, you could ask the NSA where they get their inside info:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=41887
 
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The question being...."Will it make it worse if I try to read from this SSD?"

Probably not.

But is the underlying question..."Is the data accessible, to copy or clone to some other device?"

There was no underlying question. Before I even want to play around to see if I can do anything with the data on the SSD (if it's accessible at all with any software), I've felt the need to get more information, educate myself a bit.


As mentioned above, the data is the critical thing.
The physical device is mostly irrelevant.

If it is still under warranty, free replace.
If it is NOT still under warranty...well, its had a good life.

If any of my current drives were to die right now, my thought would be, at most "Oh bother, I have to replace it."

/end Soapbox

And how's that relevant to my question, again? (Please don't answer that question, it's rhetorical.)
 
Feb 13, 2023
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If storage manufacturers released VSC info to their "partners", then their partners would not be waiting for updates for their PC3000 tool from Ace laboratory. Moreover, they would be proclaiming that they have solutions for cases which are otherwise regarded as unsupported. In fact, the truth is that they are no better than regular data recovery shops. The only advantage that they have is that they can supply a warranty replacement drive direct from the storage manufacturer. That's really the only point of difference.

Actually, you could ask the NSA where they got their inside info:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=41887

That's one interesting thread, lol. Where do you have the info from regarding WD's data recovery partner, that they actually use PC-3000? I'm really interested in that