- Jul 3, 2016
- 79
- 10
- 18,535
Hi guys, recently I have checked out the details about X870E motherboard, which made me totally shocked. How can this happen? Here is the details:
Before we start, I'd like to review X670E/B650E motherboard so that if some one does not know too much about AM5 platform.
If you already know about X670E/B650E in details, which I believe most of people here would, please just ingore this part,
As most of people here know about, for AM5, if you are using Ryzen 7000 or 9000 family CPU, you have total 28X PCI-E 5.0 from CPU to all the expasion, let's just ignore the PCI-E lanes that come from the chipset (I will explain everything later) , a typical X670E has 2XM.2 that from CPU directly, usually M.2_0 and M.2_1, each of them takes 4X PCI-E 5.0, thus, 20 PCI-E 5.0 lanes left, 16X for graphic, the last 4X lanes are used for connecting chipset.
Meanwhile, the chipset however, is no longer like the tranditional nth/sth bridge design (in fact north bridge has disappered from motherboard for almost 2 decades), it is basically something like a PLX+ some other function. Nevertheless, the major problem of AMD X670E/B650 is, the chipset that both of them use are ASM PROM 21,which only has total 12XPCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0, if you want to use sata then each PCI-E 3.0 lane will be convert to a sata port. However, the PCI-E lanes from CPU are 5.0., they have to down grade to PCI-E 4.0 to connect the chipset. Meanwhile, the difference between X670E and B650E/B650 is X670E is made by 2XASM PROM 21, it is connect to each other with series connection, which works out that there are total 12X PCI-E 4.0 and 8XPCI-E 3.0/SATA to use (the first PROM 21 connects to CPU, cost 4X PCI-E 4.0 lanes, connects to 2ed PROM21, cost another 4X PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which has only 4XPCI-E 4.0 to use and 4XPCI-E 3.0/SATA to use, while the 2ed PROM21 connets to 1st PROM21, cost 4XPCI-E 4.0 lanes, left 8X PCI-E 4.0 lanes and 4XPCI-E 3.0 lanes to use, so finally works out 4+8=12X PCI-E lanes plus 8XPCI-E 3.0 lanes/sata to use) while B650E has only one ASM PROM21, which works out 8XPCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0/Sata to use (4Xpci-e 4.0 is used to connect to CPU, which works out 12-4 = 8X PCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0 to use). Usually, if it is X670E, the PCI-E 4.0 lanes from chipset will be distribute to 2XM.2 pci-e 4.0 Ports, the rest are used for other things such as wifi, nic, and PCI-E slots on the motherboard, and the PCI-E 3.0 are used to connect sata devices and something else such as PCI-E slots, while for B650, usually there is only one PCI-E 4.0 M.2 that is from Chipeset, the rest of PCI-E lanes are used for SATA, pci-e slots, etc. Of course, there are some motherboards that has more than 2Xm.2 that connects cpu direct, those ports however, once they are in use, your graphic will run at 8x speed.
Here is a detail example. Now I am use Asus ROG X670E HERO, it is X670E motherboard, which means that it has total 12XPCI-E 4.0 and 8XPCI-E 3.0/sata from the chipset. On the motherboard, there are 2XM.2 run @pci-e 5.0X4 speed that connect to cpu directly, meanwhile 2xm.2 pci-e 4.0 from chipset. Which leaves 4XPCI-E 4.0 from chipset to use. Then, WIFI and NIC takes one PCI-E 4.0 lanes each, the ASM1061 Chip (a pci-e 2.0 to 2xsata 3 chip) takes 1XPCI-E, the last PCI-E 4.0 lane is used for the last pci-e slot on the very end of the motherboard. For PCI-E 3.0 part, 4XPCI-E 3.0 are used to make 4XSATA3 ports, plus 2XSATA3 from ASM1061, which works out 6 SATA3 ports, the last 4XPCI-E 3.0 are used to make a USB4 port.
My personal idea about X670E/B650E is that they are noot good enough yet accepatble, after all they seems like rushly made. In fact, the PROM 21 is the same chip that has been used on B550 motherboard. However X870E is totally below my expectation. Once again, I want to ask, how can this be? First of all, the chips it uses are still 2XPROM21. I was expecting at least they add 4XPCI-E 5.0 on one of PROM21 as the uplink, yet it is not there. In fact there is no differecen between X670E and X870E. Like this is not bad enough, it seems like AMD is forcing all the AIC to use 4XPCI-E 5.0 from the CPU to connect a USB4 chip, which means if you don't want to make your grahic card runs at 8X, you have only one M.2 that diectlly connect to CPU. I still fail to understand why is that. Asus X670E has already prove that for USB4, you just need X4 pci-e 3.0. Why AMD is forcing AIC to waste the precious PCI-E 5.0X4, down grade them to PCI-E 3.0X4 to just connect USB4? Is that because PCI-E 5.0X4 has big bandwideth so that in the future when the next gen RTX cards start use PCI-E 5.0, it may able to allow 3 way SLI (8+8+4) without performance lose so that they are not able to force those people with this kind of demand to buy their HEDT products?
I have been a computer hardware ethusist for almost 27 years, starts with AMD 486 DX-2 66MHZ. I have seen countless motherboards. Yet it is the first time I found that the motherboard can be down graded like this. I miss the old days when the 3rd party chipset manufacture, such as VIA, SIS, NVDIA were there. If they were still there, this would never happen.
Before we start, I'd like to review X670E/B650E motherboard so that if some one does not know too much about AM5 platform.
If you already know about X670E/B650E in details, which I believe most of people here would, please just ingore this part,
As most of people here know about, for AM5, if you are using Ryzen 7000 or 9000 family CPU, you have total 28X PCI-E 5.0 from CPU to all the expasion, let's just ignore the PCI-E lanes that come from the chipset (I will explain everything later) , a typical X670E has 2XM.2 that from CPU directly, usually M.2_0 and M.2_1, each of them takes 4X PCI-E 5.0, thus, 20 PCI-E 5.0 lanes left, 16X for graphic, the last 4X lanes are used for connecting chipset.
Meanwhile, the chipset however, is no longer like the tranditional nth/sth bridge design (in fact north bridge has disappered from motherboard for almost 2 decades), it is basically something like a PLX+ some other function. Nevertheless, the major problem of AMD X670E/B650 is, the chipset that both of them use are ASM PROM 21,which only has total 12XPCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0, if you want to use sata then each PCI-E 3.0 lane will be convert to a sata port. However, the PCI-E lanes from CPU are 5.0., they have to down grade to PCI-E 4.0 to connect the chipset. Meanwhile, the difference between X670E and B650E/B650 is X670E is made by 2XASM PROM 21, it is connect to each other with series connection, which works out that there are total 12X PCI-E 4.0 and 8XPCI-E 3.0/SATA to use (the first PROM 21 connects to CPU, cost 4X PCI-E 4.0 lanes, connects to 2ed PROM21, cost another 4X PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which has only 4XPCI-E 4.0 to use and 4XPCI-E 3.0/SATA to use, while the 2ed PROM21 connets to 1st PROM21, cost 4XPCI-E 4.0 lanes, left 8X PCI-E 4.0 lanes and 4XPCI-E 3.0 lanes to use, so finally works out 4+8=12X PCI-E lanes plus 8XPCI-E 3.0 lanes/sata to use) while B650E has only one ASM PROM21, which works out 8XPCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0/Sata to use (4Xpci-e 4.0 is used to connect to CPU, which works out 12-4 = 8X PCI-E 4.0 and 4XPCI-E 3.0 to use). Usually, if it is X670E, the PCI-E 4.0 lanes from chipset will be distribute to 2XM.2 pci-e 4.0 Ports, the rest are used for other things such as wifi, nic, and PCI-E slots on the motherboard, and the PCI-E 3.0 are used to connect sata devices and something else such as PCI-E slots, while for B650, usually there is only one PCI-E 4.0 M.2 that is from Chipeset, the rest of PCI-E lanes are used for SATA, pci-e slots, etc. Of course, there are some motherboards that has more than 2Xm.2 that connects cpu direct, those ports however, once they are in use, your graphic will run at 8x speed.
Here is a detail example. Now I am use Asus ROG X670E HERO, it is X670E motherboard, which means that it has total 12XPCI-E 4.0 and 8XPCI-E 3.0/sata from the chipset. On the motherboard, there are 2XM.2 run @pci-e 5.0X4 speed that connect to cpu directly, meanwhile 2xm.2 pci-e 4.0 from chipset. Which leaves 4XPCI-E 4.0 from chipset to use. Then, WIFI and NIC takes one PCI-E 4.0 lanes each, the ASM1061 Chip (a pci-e 2.0 to 2xsata 3 chip) takes 1XPCI-E, the last PCI-E 4.0 lane is used for the last pci-e slot on the very end of the motherboard. For PCI-E 3.0 part, 4XPCI-E 3.0 are used to make 4XSATA3 ports, plus 2XSATA3 from ASM1061, which works out 6 SATA3 ports, the last 4XPCI-E 3.0 are used to make a USB4 port.
My personal idea about X670E/B650E is that they are noot good enough yet accepatble, after all they seems like rushly made. In fact, the PROM 21 is the same chip that has been used on B550 motherboard. However X870E is totally below my expectation. Once again, I want to ask, how can this be? First of all, the chips it uses are still 2XPROM21. I was expecting at least they add 4XPCI-E 5.0 on one of PROM21 as the uplink, yet it is not there. In fact there is no differecen between X670E and X870E. Like this is not bad enough, it seems like AMD is forcing all the AIC to use 4XPCI-E 5.0 from the CPU to connect a USB4 chip, which means if you don't want to make your grahic card runs at 8X, you have only one M.2 that diectlly connect to CPU. I still fail to understand why is that. Asus X670E has already prove that for USB4, you just need X4 pci-e 3.0. Why AMD is forcing AIC to waste the precious PCI-E 5.0X4, down grade them to PCI-E 3.0X4 to just connect USB4? Is that because PCI-E 5.0X4 has big bandwideth so that in the future when the next gen RTX cards start use PCI-E 5.0, it may able to allow 3 way SLI (8+8+4) without performance lose so that they are not able to force those people with this kind of demand to buy their HEDT products?
I have been a computer hardware ethusist for almost 27 years, starts with AMD 486 DX-2 66MHZ. I have seen countless motherboards. Yet it is the first time I found that the motherboard can be down graded like this. I miss the old days when the 3rd party chipset manufacture, such as VIA, SIS, NVDIA were there. If they were still there, this would never happen.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram