[SOLVED] Isn't cloning the only thing you need?

[rustedmetal]

So i cloned my drive as a safety measure but why does software like Micrium Reflect have imaging and bootable options? Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't cloning be all someone one would need in the event that the drive goes kaput? So who would create an image file then have a bootable usb along with it? Please help me understand.

 

[madmatt30]

So i cloned my drive as a safety measure but why does software like Micrium Reflect have imaging and bootable options? Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't cloning be all someone one would need in the event that the drive goes kaput? So who would create an image file then have a bootable usb along with it? Please help me understand.

Convenience/professional use I would imagine, If you're cloning a 256/512gb ssd or multiple drives you could fit a dozen images etc on a larger platter drive as backups rather than using an entire drive for the cloning process.
Macrium is aimed at single home users for basic cloning but also at businesses / IT departments for the paid business model versions.

 

[Mrgr74]

So i cloned my drive as a safety measure but why does software like Micrium Reflect have imaging and bootable options? Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't cloning be all someone one would need in the event that the drive goes kaput? So who would create an image file then have a bootable usb along with it? Please help me understand.

Hi @rustedmetal

Think of a drive like an office. Be it an SSD or an older HDD. No matter how organized the office is, eventually things get cluttered & files go missing. When you clone, you basically make a copy of what is already there. This includes any corrupted files, malware & bits n' pieces of whatever software &/or drivers you had installed (files hidden from normal view as well as registry entries.) Sure, you could potentially clone a new installation of your OS, but then you'll just be installing an outdated version (if you updated your drivers 1st and if you didn't, whats the point of cloning a fresh install of your OS when you could just install a fresh version of the OS).

This is just my 2 cents. Many others here will feel differently. I have just never been a fan of cloning. I have nothing against those that do and I'm not bad mouthing the need or use, I have just never had the need to is all. I reinstall whatever Ver. of Windows is currently out every 6 months. My own little quirk.

 

[mdd1963]

In order to restore a Macrium-created image, you need to boot from something (likely a USB created with their 'bootable media creation' , likely a Linux based OS) with just 'enough' to allow selection/writing of the image back to the intended (and serviceable) drive (vice the 'kaput' one, of course).

 

[rustedmetal]

Convenience/professional use I would imagine, If you're cloning a 256/512gb ssd or multiple drives you could fit a dozen images etc on a larger platter drive as backups rather than using an entire drive for the cloning process.
Macrium is aimed at single home users for basic cloning but also at businesses / IT departments for the paid business model versions.

So these "dozen images" can be from different drives (different PCs) stored in one single backup drive which can then be used boot the PCs they were imaged from? This is of course assuming you have the bootable media.

 

[madmatt30]

So these "dozen images" can be from different drives (different PCs) stored in one single backup drive which can then be used boot the PCs they were imaged from? This is of course assuming you have the bootable media.

Yes absolutely that, while the general home user has no need for this I can envisage professional situations where it would be very very useful.

 

[rustedmetal]

Hi @rustedmetal

Think of a drive like an office. Be it an SSD or an older HDD. No matter how organized the office is, eventually things get cluttered & files go missing. When you clone, you basically make a copy of what is already there. This includes any corrupted files, malware & bits n' pieces of whatever software &/or drivers you had installed (files hidden from normal view as well as registry entries.) Sure, you could potentially clone a new installation of your OS, but then you'll just be installing an outdated version (if you updated your drivers 1st and if you didn't, whats the point of cloning a fresh install of your OS when you could just install a fresh version of the OS).

But wouldn't a fresh install cost you $$ if let's say we were talking about WinXP?

 

[Mrgr74]

But wouldn't a fresh install cost you $$ if let's say we were talking about WinXP?

Depends. Did you have WinXP and then lose the CD Key? How did you make the clone initially? You had to have had WinXP at some point to make the clone to begin with and if you "borrowed" an illegal copy of WinXP, which is pirating and a big no-no here and so will not be discussed further. If you had a legit copy, WinXP would require you to re-activate if it detected new hardware.

Installing your legal copy of WinXP (or any version of Windows) is free. You may need to contact Microsoft if you installed it on one PC and then upgraded your PC and installed it on the new PC as new hardware was detected, but a simple phone call to explain that it as only installed on 1 PC would clear it up allowing for another reactivation.

 

[USAFRet]

So i cloned my drive as a safety measure but why does software like Micrium Reflect have imaging and bootable options? Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't cloning be all someone one would need in the event that the drive goes kaput? So who would create an image file then have a bootable usb along with it? Please help me understand.

Cloning is for changing the drive right now.
Imaging is for backups, to be potentially used in the future.
The Rescue boot CD or USB is for when your OS drive dies, and you need to recover to a new drive from one of the Images you created.

My system has 7 physical drives. A direct clone of each would require another 7 physical drives.
Images, and I can store 30 days of Full/Incremental images for all 7 drives, on a single target drive (actually a folder in my NAS box).

Cloning is a snapshot of right now.
Images, I can go back in time. If something weird happens and I don't notice for a couple of days. I need the image from the day before the BadThing happened. No problem.

Here are the folders for the drives in my main system. Each drive gets its own folder.
Inside each is up to 30 individual Images, either Full or Incremental.

Imaging runs at night, between midnight and 4AM.

There is similar for all the other systems in the house.
That is in my NAS box, but could just as easily be on a large external USB drive.

 

[USAFRet]

So i cloned my drive as a safety measure but ....

3 months from now, when you need to use that clone, it is 3 months out of date. Anything you've done between now and then...all gone.
Images can happen daily.

 

[USAFRet]

Here is my backup routine:

What is your backup situation at home?

What is your backup situation at home? And if you don't do that, why not? Every single day, I read multiple threads here of "How do I get my stuff back?" or "That drive had 5 years of photos of my kids!!" Be it a dead drive, dropped phone, virus, accidental deletion, formatting the wrong...

forums.tomshardware.com

Slightly changed since then, but not much.
Relies on Macrium and Images as the main functionality.

And yes, I've had to use it. One of my SSD's died suddenly.
960GB SanDisk, 605GB data on it.

Click click in Macrium, all 605GB recovered, exactly as it was at 4AM when it ran the nightly Incremental image.
A clone of that drive would only be current as whatever date I had created the clone.

 

[rustedmetal]

Cloning is for changing the drive right now.
Imaging is for backups, to be potentially used in the future.
The Rescue boot CD or USB is for when your OS drive dies, and you need to recover to a new drive from one of the Images you created.

My system has 7 physical drives. A direct clone of each would require another 7 physical drives.
Images, and I can store 30 days of Full/Incremental images for all 7 drives, on a single target drive (actually a folder in my NAS box).

Cloning is a snapshot of right now.
Images, I can go back in time. If something weird happens and I don't notice for a couple of days. I need the image from the day before the BadThing happened. No problem.

Here are the folders for the drives in my main system. Each drive gets its own folder.
Inside each is up to 30 individual Images, either Full or Incremental.

Imaging runs at night, between midnight and 4AM.

There is similar for all the other systems in the house.
That is in my NAS box, but could just as easily be on a large external USB drive.

That "target drive"...it's purpose is for images solely? What i mean is, is it off mostly and only turns on when backing up images? Wouldn't creating so many images basically put stress in the drive which could in turn increase the chances of it dying sooner vs a clone which could be behind in updates but, who can't wait for a few minutes to download any missing updates?

 

[rustedmetal]

In order to restore a Macrium-created image, you need to boot from something (likely a USB created with their 'bootable media creation' , likely a Linux based OS) with just 'enough' to allow selection/writing of the image back to the intended (and serviceable) drive (vice the 'kaput' one, of course).

If i don't use Linux then can micrium use anything from the same drive i imaged to create a bootable media?

 

[USAFRet]

That "target drive"...it's purpose is for images solely? What i mean is, is it off mostly and only turns on when backing up images? Wouldn't creating so many images basically put stress in the drive which could in turn increase the chances of it dying sooner vs a clone which could be behind in updates but, who can't wait for a few minutes to download any missing updates?

The daily Images are incremental. Just what changed since the last Incremental.
Very small. Its not like I'm writing the whole drive contents every day.

And it is FAR more than just OS updates.
All my data . For instance, yesterday, I took around 50 photos and did some work on a couple of CAD models. That has been captured in the nightly backup, and THAT data is what is valuable/irreplaceable.
The OS and applications can be trivially reinstalled. I cannot go back to yesterday and take that same picture again.

 

[rustedmetal]

The daily Images are incremental. Just what changed since the last Incremental.
Very small. Its not like I'm writing the whole drive contents every day.

And it is FAR more than just OS updates.
All my data . For instance, yesterday, I took around 50 photos and did some work on a couple of CAD models. That has been captured in the nightly backup, and THAT data is what is valuable/irreplaceable.
The OS and applications can be trivially reinstalled. I cannot go back to yesterday and take that same picture again.

I know it's a late reply but i don't have that much time in my hands. Ok i understand but from what you said earlier, just to be clear, if you ever have to boot from that target drive you can do so as long as you create that bootable media like in Macrium?

 

[USAFRet]

I know it's a late reply but i don't have that much time in my hands. Ok i understand but from what you said earlier, just to be clear, if you ever have to boot from that target drive you can do so as long as you create that bootable media like in Macrium?

You use the Macrium Rescue USB to recover that Image to a replacement drive.
Or over top of a corrupted install.

You don't boot directly from the Image.


Dec 2018, one of my secondary SSDs died suddenly.
960GB SanDisk....poof gone. Don't know why. 605GB data on it, mostly irreplaceable pictures.
Nothing I tried would make it come back to life.

Take it out, put in a new drive.
Click click in Macrium...all 605GB data on it recovered, exactly as it was at 4AM that morning when it ran the nightly Incremental.
100%.

 

[rustedmetal]

You use the Macrium Rescue USB to recover that Image to a replacement drive.
Or over top of a corrupted install.

You don't boot directly from the Image.


Dec 2018, one of my secondary SSDs died suddenly.
960GB SanDisk....poof gone. Don't know why. 605GB data on it, mostly irreplaceable pictures.
Nothing I tried would make it come back to life.

Take it out, put in a new drive.
Click click in Macrium...all 605GB data on it recovered, exactly as it was at 4AM that morning when it ran the nightly Incremental.
100%.

Take which drive out, the "target drive" where all the images are backed into? Which then you used Macrium to create a bootable drive/cd from that target drive?

 

[USAFRet]

Take which drive out, the "target drive" where all the images are backed into? Which then you used Macrium to create a bootable drive/cd from that target drive?

In my above case, "take out" the drive that broke. Replace with a new one.
Tell Macrium to write the Image from wherever it is stored, on to the replacement drive.

Mine was just a secondary drive, not the boot drive.
But if it was, then I would have used the Rescue USB that I created earlier, booted from that, and done the same thing.

I have a couple of Macrium Rescue USBs. One in my camera bag, one in the bottom of my PC case.
Just so they don't get lost.

 

[rustedmetal]

In my above case, "take out" the drive that broke. Replace with a new one.
Tell Macrium to write the Image from wherever it is stored, on to the replacement drive.

Mine was just a secondary drive, not the boot drive.
But if it was, then I would have used the Rescue USB that I created earlier, booted from that, and done the same thing.

I have a couple of Macrium Rescue USBs. One in my camera bag, one in the bottom of my PC case.
Just so they don't get lost.

ok. got it. Thanks!!