Its about time...

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Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
> In article <1108489629.266267.319570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
> >> In article
<1108401482.171059.238490@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> [big, big snip]
> >>
> >> 20 FO
> >> 20 CM
> >> (1-20?) Ice Shard ?
> >
> >That will work.
>
> With 1, or 20 points in Ice Shard, or whatever the single synergy to
FO
> is?

That'd be Ice Bolt. The synergy is a tad weak, being only 2% to cold
damage per level. I'd put a point or 2 in, but wait until much later to
add any spare points (if any) to it.

>
> >> 20 Fire Ball
> >> (How many in synergies?)
> >
> >Some points in Fbolt and a point in FM.
>
> So just skip Meteor at all. Would this build benefit from the unique
Mace
> class weapon which has Meteor charges (the synergy bug/bonus)?

Yes, avoid meteor. As to the mace class weapon, maybe on a switch. On
the primary, I would look for something with +3 skills and fast cast,
as your fireball will benefit from it. Gloams in particular die like
flies around a decent fireball with a decent cast rate.

>
> >MOST IMPORTANT: Do not forget your most powerfull skill, that being
SF.
> >This skill should be attended to with any build of sorc, even an
> >enchantress.
>
> Roger that!
>
> >> How does this build handle CI+FI monsters?
> >
> >With a decent SF, the merc will usually kill those few that are both
CI
> >and FI.
>
> Check!
>
> >> My 'weapon of choice' for MF-ing has always been a Skelliemancer,
but
> >> there must be something about this build that makes people use it.

> >
> >Yes, namely Mephisto. With a sorc, you can bypass the time consuming
> >effort of dealing with Bremm and his cohorts, and simply teleport
> >directly to mephisto. Let your merc walk up to him while you SF him
> >down to half life, and then 2 or 3 orbs will finish the job. If you
can
> >memorize the maps on level 2, you can do these runs in around 20-30
> >seconds.
>
> It seems this should still be doable with the CL/FO Sorc I'm
currently
> building (Act 2 NM), lvl ~40. I'll see how she deals with Hell, and
then
> maybe rebuild another one, and then go for the Fireball/FO route.

The reason I choose FB is that with a good setup (Like an Oculus and a
Lidless wall), you can spit them out quite quickly. While the
likelihood of a CI/FI is no greater than that of a CI/LI, the damage
done to your char by LI monsters (which usually have lightning attacks)
is far greater. Black Souls and Gloams come to mind. FB eats them
alive.

>
> I suppose the reason this build uses Fire + Cold, is because SF is
> Lightning, so you have a good, big-damage building (but cheap) skill
in
> that tree. Is it worth putting points in SF? Or should + skills
handle
> it?

SF is most usefull when it's radius is enough to cover your entire
viewable screen. That being the case, the answer to your question is
dependant on the gear you will be using. If you have +12 or so to
skills, you may be able to get away with just one point. The problem
then is that on the way up to your best gear, you will be suffering
from a severe lack of range on the skill. I usually put 3 or 4 points
in early, and then top off the tank if I have the points or the need
later on.

Mickey

 

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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1108492477.831404.90960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
> > In article <1108489629.266267.319570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
> > >> In article
> <1108401482.171059.238490@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > >> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> [big, big snip]
> > >>
> > >> 20 FO
> > >> 20 CM
> > >> (1-20?) Ice Shard ?
> > >
> > >That will work.
> >
> > With 1, or 20 points in Ice Shard, or whatever the single synergy to
> FO
> > is?
>
> That'd be Ice Bolt. The synergy is a tad weak, being only 2% to cold
> damage per level. I'd put a point or 2 in, but wait until much later to
> add any spare points (if any) to it.
>
I agree here, FO works pretty well soloing with no synergy anyway

> >
> > >> 20 Fire Ball
> > >> (How many in synergies?)
> > >
> > >Some points in Fbolt and a point in FM.
> >
> > So just skip Meteor at all. Would this build benefit from the unique
> Mace
> > class weapon which has Meteor charges (the synergy bug/bonus)?
>
> Yes, avoid meteor. As to the mace class weapon, maybe on a switch. On
> the primary, I would look for something with +3 skills and fast cast,
> as your fireball will benefit from it. Gloams in particular die like
> flies around a decent fireball with a decent cast rate.
>
Yup, the good thing about using Firebolt as a synergy is that you can drop
10 points in it right off the bat, use it until you get Fireball and not
regret it later. With no +skills, 20 into Fbolt and Fireball, with 1 point
in Fire Mastery gets you 985-1118 for Fireball. If you can scrounge up +5
fire or +5 all skills, and another point into FM puts you up over the 2k
mark. +6 skills does as well.


short

 

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In article <1108401482.171059.238490@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:

[big, big snip]

>I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
>survive without the best of equipment.

Could you go in a bit more detail as to what this build looks like?
From my own experience with a Chain Lightning/Frozen Orb sorc I'm
currently building (probably not the best one to start with..), I'd guess
something like:

20 FO
20 CM
(1-20?) Ice Shard ?

20 Fire Ball
(How many in synergies?)

How does this build handle CI+FI monsters?

My 'weapon of choice' for MF-ing has always been a Skelliemancer, but
there must be something about this build that makes people use it.

Regards,

Patrick.

 

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In article <1108489629.266267.319570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
>> In article <1108401482.171059.238490@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> Mickey <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> [big, big snip]
>>
>> 20 FO
>> 20 CM
>> (1-20?) Ice Shard ?
>
>That will work.

With 1, or 20 points in Ice Shard, or whatever the single synergy to FO
is?

>> 20 Fire Ball
>> (How many in synergies?)
>
>Some points in Fbolt and a point in FM.

So just skip Meteor at all. Would this build benefit from the unique Mace
class weapon which has Meteor charges (the synergy bug/bonus)?

>MOST IMPORTANT: Do not forget your most powerfull skill, that being SF.
>This skill should be attended to with any build of sorc, even an
>enchantress.

Roger that!

>> How does this build handle CI+FI monsters?
>
>With a decent SF, the merc will usually kill those few that are both CI
>and FI.

Check!

>> My 'weapon of choice' for MF-ing has always been a Skelliemancer, but
>> there must be something about this build that makes people use it.
>
>Yes, namely Mephisto. With a sorc, you can bypass the time consuming
>effort of dealing with Bremm and his cohorts, and simply teleport
>directly to mephisto. Let your merc walk up to him while you SF him
>down to half life, and then 2 or 3 orbs will finish the job. If you can
>memorize the maps on level 2, you can do these runs in around 20-30
>seconds.

It seems this should still be doable with the CL/FO Sorc I'm currently
building (Act 2 NM), lvl ~40. I'll see how she deals with Hell, and then
maybe rebuild another one, and then go for the Fireball/FO route.

I suppose the reason this build uses Fire + Cold, is because SF is
Lightning, so you have a good, big-damage building (but cheap) skill in
that tree. Is it worth putting points in SF? Or should + skills handle
it?

Regards,

Patrick.

 

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On 14 Feb 2005 09:18:02 -0800, "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:

>I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
>survive without the best of equipment.

I've been working up a fireball sorc, and hadn't decided on a
secondary skill, so I'll try that route. Thanks 🙂

Is a spirit rune word shield worth the investment in str points, or
will the sorc be better off with a good resist or high blocking
shield?

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:03:01 +1300, Stephen van Ham
<svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

>My my, doesn't Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> look
>good in that trenchcoat:
>
>>On that special day, Mickey, (mickeyb@comcast.net) said...
>
>>> I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
>>> survive without the best of equipment.
>>
>>How is such a build called? Super ball sorc?
>
>It's a good choice, although I suppose "ladder reset flagship MF build"
>doesn't have much of a ring to it, but this, or a metorb build, seems to be
>what a lot of people go for. I always seem to go for a javazon first, because
>I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm planning on
>starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever does).

I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod for
items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid of
maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of would be
rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.

 

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"Dalai Lama" <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4kr511dos2p2kflendopdpg6a491tc86sj@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:03:01 +1300, Stephen van Ham
> <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >My my, doesn't Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de>
look
> >good in that trenchcoat:
> >
> >>On that special day, Mickey, (mickeyb@comcast.net) said...
> >
> >>> I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
> >>> survive without the best of equipment.
> >>
> >>How is such a build called? Super ball sorc?
> >
> >It's a good choice, although I suppose "ladder reset flagship MF build"
> >doesn't have much of a ring to it, but this, or a metorb build, seems to
be
> >what a lot of people go for. I always seem to go for a javazon first,
because
> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm planning on
> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever does).
>
> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod for
> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid of
> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of would be
> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.
>
>
Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would be to
increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)


short

 

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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:49:28 -0500, "short" <shorts@zoominternet.net>
wrote:

>> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm planning on
>> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever does).

>> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod for
>> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid of
>> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of would be
>> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.


>Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would be to
>increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)


They could also allow the completed Khalim's Will quest to give a
rune- and put a modifier for the runes level to minimize rushing
others for the quest- not sure exactly how to balance that out- maybe
something along the lines of random rune generation (with appropriate
ranges) with a minus taken off rune level for each level of highest
character in game that already has quest and lowest level of character
in game who doesn't have quest. Each character would get the rune
handed to them, not dropped which would help limit the rush4forge type
mentality as well. Further, if the character got through act 3 by
the travincal rush, then that character would get flagged so they
couldn't get quest in later difficulties as well, whether they
obtained the assorted Khalimbits or not.

 

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"Dalai Lama" <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
news:m7r511p4ujmvhklhcq13n1ptnrsg5eq6fe@4ax.com...
> On 14 Feb 2005 09:18:02 -0800, "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
> >survive without the best of equipment.
>
> I've been working up a fireball sorc, and hadn't decided on a
> secondary skill, so I'll try that route. Thanks 🙂
>
> Is a spirit rune word shield worth the investment in str points, or
> will the sorc be better off with a good resist or high blocking
> shield?
>
>
So far everyones talking me out of a Spirit shield for my Trapper, so don't
hope for too many fans of the 156 Str req out there
If you want to max Block though, Visc is the way to go.


short

 

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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:55:31 -0500, "short" <shorts@zoominternet.net>
wrote:

>
>"Dalai Lama" <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:m7r511p4ujmvhklhcq13n1ptnrsg5eq6fe@4ax.com...
>> On 14 Feb 2005 09:18:02 -0800, "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
>> >survive without the best of equipment.
>>
>> I've been working up a fireball sorc, and hadn't decided on a
>> secondary skill, so I'll try that route. Thanks 🙂
>>
>> Is a spirit rune word shield worth the investment in str points, or
>> will the sorc be better off with a good resist or high blocking
>> shield?
>>
>>
>So far everyones talking me out of a Spirit shield for my Trapper, so don't
>hope for too many fans of the 156 Str req out there
>If you want to max Block though, Visc is the way to go.

Not a Whitstans?

 

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Ashen Shugar wrote:
> I think it was Dalai Lama <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> that wrote
something
> like...
>
> >On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:49:28 -0500, "short"
<shorts@zoominternet.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm
planning on
> >>> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever
does).
> >
> >>> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod
for
> >>> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid
of
> >>> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of
would be
> >>> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.
> >
> >
> >>Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would
be to
> >>increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)
> >
> >
> >They could also allow the completed Khalim's Will quest to give a
> >rune- and put a modifier for the runes level to minimize rushing
> >others for the quest- not sure exactly how to balance that out-
maybe
> >something along the lines of random rune generation (with
appropriate
> >ranges) with a minus taken off rune level for each level of highest
> >character in game that already has quest and lowest level of
character
> >in game who doesn't have quest.
>
> If they wanted to stop forge rushing (to a large degree at least),
> they'd just have to put a level requirement on the hammer. Level 40
> at least for Hell difficulty, as that's the level required to pass
the
> ancients in NM. The same level as the ancients for that difficulty
> wouldn't be too bad. Maybe level 30 for NM diff.


See, I'm a simplistic sort of idiot. I ask the question, "Why not kill
ALL the birds with just ONE stone?". My solution is just to put level
restrictions on the difficulty modes. Level 30 to enter NM, level 60 to
enter HELL mode. Now this would stop forge rushing, power leveling
chars, and a host of other unpleasantries.

Mickey

 

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Stephen van Ham wrote:
> My my, doesn't Gabriele Neukam
<Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> look
> good in that trenchcoat:
>
> >On that special day, Mickey, (mickeyb@comcast.net) said...
>
> >> I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that
can
> >> survive without the best of equipment.
> >
> >How is such a build called? Super ball sorc?
>
> It's a good choice, although I suppose "ladder reset flagship MF
build"

Nah, that's a necro and a host of topaz

Mickey

 

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"Dalai Lama" <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8qd711hmalpbr1cfvlk9c2q2f6gnkasitf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:55:31 -0500, "short" <shorts@zoominternet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dalai Lama" <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:m7r511p4ujmvhklhcq13n1ptnrsg5eq6fe@4ax.com...
> >> On 14 Feb 2005 09:18:02 -0800, "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'd go with a frozen orb/fireball combo then. That is a build that can
> >> >survive without the best of equipment.
> >>
> >> I've been working up a fireball sorc, and hadn't decided on a
> >> secondary skill, so I'll try that route. Thanks 🙂
> >>
> >> Is a spirit rune word shield worth the investment in str points, or
> >> will the sorc be better off with a good resist or high blocking
> >> shield?
> >>
> >>
> >So far everyones talking me out of a Spirit shield for my Trapper, so
don't
> >hope for too many fans of the 156 Str req out there
> >If you want to max Block though, Visc is the way to go.
>
> Not a Whitstans?
>
>
Well, Whitstans takes less dex, but doesn't give you the +1 Sorc skills.
Visc at lvl 75 takes 203 dex for 75% blocking, IIRC.
Upgraded, it only takes 172 at lvl 75.
Upgraded at lvl 85, it takes 192.

Whitstans, lvl 75, takes 145.
Whitstans at lvl 85, takes 162.
All of this according to
http://www.johngaughan.net/games/calc/diablo2_shield.php


short - but I always like the +skill

 

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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:52:58 -0500, "short" <shorts@zoominternet.net>
wrote:

>> >So far everyones talking me out of a Spirit shield for my Trapper, so
>don't
>> >hope for too many fans of the 156 Str req out there
>> >If you want to max Block though, Visc is the way to go.

>> Not a Whitstans?

>Well, Whitstans takes less dex, but doesn't give you the +1 Sorc skills.
>Visc at lvl 75 takes 203 dex for 75% blocking, IIRC.
>Upgraded, it only takes 172 at lvl 75.
>Upgraded at lvl 85, it takes 192.

>Whitstans, lvl 75, takes 145.
>Whitstans at lvl 85, takes 162.
>All of this according to

>http://www.johngaughan.net/games/calc/diablo2_shield.php


Thanks, I didn't realize they were that close at upper levels.

>short - but I always like the +skill

 

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In article <37hm72F5enarmU1@individual.net>,
short <shorts@zoominternet.net> wrote:
>
>"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
>message news:272ae$42139c74$82a1d3bf$10445@news1.tudelft.nl...
>>
>> Plenty left, so I could do that. But I'm also saving up my imbues to
>> imbue any white diadems I find/can trade for, and I think the potential
>> of these is rather higher than that of orbs.
>>
>I don't know, I imbued one with +2 Sorc, +3 Enchant and +3 something else
>useful, IIRC. I can't remember what the other one was, but it was also very
>nice, with something like +1 all, +3 Firewall, and something else.

Currently have a rather nice, rare, self-found orb with +1 sorc, +1
meteor, +2 cl, +2 telek, +8 ene, +59 mana, and some other mods. It'll get
me through until I can equip the Eschuta's, and who knows what I'll find
on the way.

>If you do some Normal MF runs and score a Lenymo, I liked my upgraded one.

Heh, neat little sash indeed. But I've actually never ever found one!

>In order of preference:
>Arachnids, of course. Its always nice to pile on another +skill, but I've
>never seen one.
>Glooms Trap
>Nightsmoke
>Lenymo (upgraded)
>I'd throw Verdungo's somewhere onto the list too, the damage reduction and
>Vitality are always welcome, if your other needs are covered.
>Short of that a spiffy rare usually suffices in a pinch.

I have either a Glooms Trap, or an upgraded Nightsmoke somewhere. Could
be on the Hammerdin, could be on another char. Have to dig, but first put
on that Tal stuff.

>I usually end up using a Visc anyway, it just looks better on a Sorc than
>the Lidless.

Have both on the sorc, Visc on switch, no orb there yet.

>> Now to decide upon my Act 2 Merc: keep the Normal Defiance dude, or
>> switch to a Holy Freeze one, or switch to a Might one?
>
>It all depends on personal preference, really. I tried a Defiance merc (on
>my Meteor/FB Sorc, I believe) and he did ok. I just like the HF, since I'm
>usually not paying attention (or half asleep). The slowed down monsters are
>easier to run away from. HOWEVER, if you're using FO, isn't the Cold time
>on that pretty impressive?
>
>According to the skill planner, at lvl 20 the cold time is 27 seconds. Add
>5 more skills to that, and it is now 32 seconds. 1/4 of that is still 8
>seconds if that cold time still gets penalties in Hell (I can't remember).
>So if you like the higher Def, just spam some FO's before entering (which is
>what I'd do with an FO sorc anyway...) and they'll be chilled for a good
>bit.

Good advice, I hadn't thought about that. But the Cold effect of the FO
will probably not affect CI monsters, and I'll probably run into a lot
more of those when I get to Hell. The HF Merc will slow those down nicely
too.

But you're right, and just because I've never used a Defiance one, I'll
keep my current Defiance one. He seems to be a sturdy little guy, so why
not keep him around?

>My Zon, Throwbarb, Martyr and Skellimancer all used Might Mercs but I've
>never tried one with a caster. Perhaps I'll get one of those for my
>Trapper, instead of a Rogue.

Well, a HF Merc actually makes a lot of sense for a trapper. My Lightning
trapper used one (very fun char to play BTW!), and it helped immensely to
keep the monsters longer in the lightning-streams of the trap(s).

I have no idea if, and how much, improvement a Might aura would provide
to the shadow master...?

Regards,

Patrick.

 

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I think it was Dalai Lama <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> that wrote something
like...

>On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:49:28 -0500, "short" <shorts@zoominternet.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm planning on
>>> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever does).
>
>>> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod for
>>> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid of
>>> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of would be
>>> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.
>
>
>>Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would be to
>>increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)
>
>
>They could also allow the completed Khalim's Will quest to give a
>rune- and put a modifier for the runes level to minimize rushing
>others for the quest- not sure exactly how to balance that out- maybe
>something along the lines of random rune generation (with appropriate
>ranges) with a minus taken off rune level for each level of highest
>character in game that already has quest and lowest level of character
>in game who doesn't have quest.

If they wanted to stop forge rushing (to a large degree at least),
they'd just have to put a level requirement on the hammer. Level 40
at least for Hell difficulty, as that's the level required to pass the
ancients in NM. The same level as the ancients for that difficulty
wouldn't be too bad. Maybe level 30 for NM diff.


Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

 

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I think it was "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> that wrote something
like...

>
>Ashen Shugar wrote:
>> I think it was Dalai Lama <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> that wrote
>something
>> like...
>>
>> >On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:49:28 -0500, "short"
><shorts@zoominternet.net>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm
>planning on
>> >>> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever
>does).
>> >
>> >>> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod
>for
>> >>> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid
>of
>> >>> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of
>would be
>> >>> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.
>> >
>> >
>> >>Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would
>be to
>> >>increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)
>> >
>> >
>> >They could also allow the completed Khalim's Will quest to give a
>> >rune- and put a modifier for the runes level to minimize rushing
>> >others for the quest- not sure exactly how to balance that out-
>maybe
>> >something along the lines of random rune generation (with
>appropriate
>> >ranges) with a minus taken off rune level for each level of highest
>> >character in game that already has quest and lowest level of
>character
>> >in game who doesn't have quest.
>>
>> If they wanted to stop forge rushing (to a large degree at least),
>> they'd just have to put a level requirement on the hammer. Level 40
>> at least for Hell difficulty, as that's the level required to pass
>the
>> ancients in NM. The same level as the ancients for that difficulty
>> wouldn't be too bad. Maybe level 30 for NM diff.
>
>
>See, I'm a simplistic sort of idiot. I ask the question, "Why not kill
>ALL the birds with just ONE stone?". My solution is just to put level
>restrictions on the difficulty modes. Level 30 to enter NM, level 60 to
>enter HELL mode. Now this would stop forge rushing, power leveling
>chars, and a host of other unpleasantries.
>
>Mickey

I can't really see that killing power leveling, though I've never
actually tried leveling up a character solely in hell difficulty. I
wouldn't have thought it'd be quicker than doing normal baal runs then
NM runs and then Hell runs though.

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

 

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jerk-o wrote:
> After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw>
> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote
>
> >My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that
trenchcoat:
> >
> >>Nah, that's a necro and a host of topaz
> >
> >You're right, sorc smorc, the amazon is the One True Way. Oh,
wait, you said
> >necro. ald, help me out here.
>
> Well, I think Mickey's right. A necro *is* the only way to go when
you start
> playing on a new ladder.

Oh yes, this is one point I will bury someone in a debate on. Other
than a pair of frosties, a necro can play almost naked in hell mode.
With a decent compliment of minions (skels, revives, golem and merc),
and his CE, he can more or less blast his way around. Also, a necro's
killing power isn't significantly reduced by donning his MF gear. A few
levels on an otherwise high level SM, SKEL, Revive or CE doesn't slow
him down too much, whereas a sorc playing on a fresh realm has a very
difficult time killing with items that are MF only. Oh sure, once you
build up a nice supply of items, and you can put a sorc into MF mode
and still maintain a high skill level, she can do better MFing, but
even then the difference is marginal.

Mickey

 

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Stephen van Ham wrote:
> My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that
trenchcoat:
>
> >Oh yes, this is one point I will bury someone in a debate on. Other
> >than a pair of frosties, a necro can play almost naked in hell mode.
> >With a decent compliment of minions (skels, revives, golem and
merc),
> >and his CE, he can more or less blast his way around. Also, a
necro's
> >killing power isn't significantly reduced by donning his MF gear. A
few
> >levels on an otherwise high level SM, SKEL, Revive or CE doesn't
slow
> >him down too much, whereas a sorc playing on a fresh realm has a
very
> >difficult time killing with items that are MF only. Oh sure, once
you
> >build up a nice supply of items, and you can put a sorc into MF mode
> >and still maintain a high skill level, she can do better MFing, but
> >even then the difference is marginal.
>
> See, it's no fun if people take my tongue in cheek comments
seriously.

Oh, I didn't really. I posted this just in case someone new to the
group wasn't here the last time I posted my dissertation on the
advantages of necros.

Mickey

 

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My my, doesn't LineNoise <linenoise@pobox.com> look good in that trenchcoat:

>>NOOOOOOO! Don't even think about max block with a Lidless. Mickey is going
>>to tell you not to max block anyway, but if you want to use the
>>Visceratuant. It doesn't take *too* much dex, and upgraded takes a bit
>>less.

>The only sorc I ever built that wasn't zero dex was the Enchantress. Well,
>almost. I had to eventually put 10 dex in to make the reqs on the HotO.

>My Tal's sorc had well over 300 Vit, IIRC. With the BO cast off of CTA,
>she had simply *enormous* HP. One of the major reasons I could cruise
>through Throne runs so easily. It's *really* hard to kill a sorc with that
>much life on top of a mana shield, and Meteorb is a build that can afford
>to skimp on Energy in favor of Vitality.

If you want to get an idea of the reasoning behind a block sorceress, do your
usual gaming routine (well, when you pick up the game again), and randomly
stop and pause for 5-20 seconds in unusual situations (like, in the middle of
a battle where your merc has some things distracted and the rest are pounding
on your ass), because that's the normal situation that those of us connecting
to battle.net via modem from across the other side of the world (and on DSL
too, apparently, from the way misfit is describing it), face on a daily basis.

>The Nova, on the other hand, was 80% Energy. A bit more fragile, but
>semi-infinite mana supply. Offensive powerhouse.

I'm tempted to find the thread that Jaako wrote about his experiences with
playing a shoddy battle.net connection (and what a wakeup call it was compared
to what he was used to), but the bottom line is that both approaches (block
versus ES or simply high life and merc) can and will always work, and that the
deciding factors on which approach to use will always be (in this order) -
connection quality, play style, build, and you'd be hard pressed to come up
with anything that would ever convince me otherwise.

Incidently, my block sorceresses are almost primarily base energy, so 250-300+
vitality is standard for them, too.

Btw, a base block, teleporting MF sorceress (e.g. boss runner) on a 500-2000
standard ping, continual spiking connection (and you've never seen a real lag
spike until you've discovered your party has moved half a map ahead of you
while you're in online "pause mode") is the very definition of D2 gaming pain
(don't ask me how I know), which is why I've never regetted going max block on
ANY sorceress I've ever created on battle.net. ;-)

 

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My my, doesn't Dalai Lama <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> look good in that
trenchcoat:

>Thanks, I didn't realize they were that close at upper levels.

Upped visc is pretty much my standard choice, too (although I never did get
around to trying a stormshield build).

 

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My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that trenchcoat:

>
>Ashen Shugar wrote:
>> I think it was Dalai Lama <daiailamaSPAM@aol.com> that wrote
>something
>> like...
>>
>> >On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:49:28 -0500, "short"
><shorts@zoominternet.net>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>> >I haven't fully shaken off my "zon guy" roots, although I'm
>planning on
>> >>> >starting with a sorceress when the ladder resets (if it ever
>does).
>> >
>> >>> I hope there's no reset soon, unless they add runefind as a mod
>for
>> >>> items, or allow non-ladder chars to cube up old ones- and get rid
>of
>> >>> maphack.. Why they should be concerned about the purity of
>would be
>> >>> rune users with all the other rampant corruptions is beyond me.
>> >
>> >
>> >>Heh, I'm with you on that. Another nice thing they could do would
>be to
>> >>increase the drop chance of high runes by about 600% 😱)
>> >
>> >
>> >They could also allow the completed Khalim's Will quest to give a
>> >rune- and put a modifier for the runes level to minimize rushing
>> >others for the quest- not sure exactly how to balance that out-
>maybe
>> >something along the lines of random rune generation (with
>appropriate
>> >ranges) with a minus taken off rune level for each level of highest
>> >character in game that already has quest and lowest level of
>character
>> >in game who doesn't have quest.
>>
>> If they wanted to stop forge rushing (to a large degree at least),
>> they'd just have to put a level requirement on the hammer. Level 40
>> at least for Hell difficulty, as that's the level required to pass
>the
>> ancients in NM. The same level as the ancients for that difficulty
>> wouldn't be too bad. Maybe level 30 for NM diff.
>
>
>See, I'm a simplistic sort of idiot. I ask the question, "Why not kill
>ALL the birds with just ONE stone?". My solution is just to put level
>restrictions on the difficulty modes. Level 30 to enter NM, level 60 to
>enter HELL mode. Now this would stop forge rushing, power leveling
>chars, and a host of other unpleasantries.

I've always found the "how low can you go?" projects as an interesting and
legitimate style of play that would be negatively affected by such level
requirements. But still, I guess it's a sledgehammer approach that would fix
the majority of abuses. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and
all that.

An alternate for this would be focused on party dynamics rather than brute
force level caps (since THAT is where all the problems occur), a standing rule
where you couldn't join a party where the highest level member was, say, 50%
more than your current level (or some other finetuned percentage of choice),
but you'd only want to put this rule in place after, say, level 20 (again, or
some other finetuned number of choice), as it would make partying up too hard
early on, like a level 1 trying to party up with a group of level 2's, for
example. So, for example, you could say that a level 40 character can't
party with anyone greater than level 60, or whatever.

 

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My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that trenchcoat:

>Nah, that's a necro and a host of topaz

You're right, sorc smorc, the amazon is the One True Way. Oh, wait, you said
necro. ald, help me out here.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw>
Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote

>My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that trenchcoat:
>
>>Nah, that's a necro and a host of topaz
>
>You're right, sorc smorc, the amazon is the One True Way. Oh, wait, you said
>necro. ald, help me out here.

Well, I think Mickey's right. A necro *is* the only way to go when you start
playing on a new ladder.
--
no, i didn't forget the 'F's
http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002
http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod
-My Diablo 2 Mod
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php
-My theme song

 

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My my, doesn't "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> look good in that trenchcoat:

>Oh yes, this is one point I will bury someone in a debate on. Other
>than a pair of frosties, a necro can play almost naked in hell mode.
>With a decent compliment of minions (skels, revives, golem and merc),
>and his CE, he can more or less blast his way around. Also, a necro's
>killing power isn't significantly reduced by donning his MF gear. A few
>levels on an otherwise high level SM, SKEL, Revive or CE doesn't slow
>him down too much, whereas a sorc playing on a fresh realm has a very
>difficult time killing with items that are MF only. Oh sure, once you
>build up a nice supply of items, and you can put a sorc into MF mode
>and still maintain a high skill level, she can do better MFing, but
>even then the difference is marginal.

See, it's no fun if people take my tongue in cheek comments seriously.